Walter/Tuiasosopo: Which is better?
A lot of people have said that the backup QB spot is still a need. Others say that it's not that big of a deal. I agree with those that say it's a need. Both Walter and Tui have had troubled careers, but as Kiffin says, "everyone has a fresh start". So just which of these two is better qualified to be Russell's backup?
1. Awareness- QB's have to be aware of everything that's going on during a play. They have to know who's open, where's the pressure, are the blockers doing their jobs, where's the go to guy, so on and so forth. Both lack this. Walter may only appear that way. The 06 line is going to be major factor as we continue. That line never gave him a chance to ask all the questions and get the throw off. But at times, Walter just had his eyes on one spot the entire play, even on the rare occasions he could have thrown it. Tui however, also has difficulty. He never asks the questions and just throws it out there. This had lead all of his interceptions in the past. Kiffin says he's getting better in this aspect, so I'll trust him. I give this to Tui. Kiff says he's getting better and Walter, from Jerry McDonald's reports, is having a lot of difficulty here.
2. Mobility- In this system, you have to be mobile. No exceptions. Walter lacks mobility. In fact, he has almost none. But mobility has two meanings in the NFL. Mobility means the ability to run for a gain, and to move around in the backfield to avoid the rush. Walter fairs better in the second meaning, but Tui is still superior. Tui is even faster than Russell, in my opinion. But in many instances, he just runs without even trying to pass. Tui wins this category as well.
3. Arm Strength- This is what Walter was drafted for. To bring a strong arm to the team back in the Collins days. I think he has the second strongest arm on roster. Tui has a fairly good arm, but no where near as good as Walter's. Walter gets his first win.
4. Accuracy- Both QB have some difficulty here. But Walter often just threw it away more than throwing to an actual receiver. Tui can throw quick short passes (what Russell's been working on in camp) Walter has surprisingly good accuracy on deep passes. He just needs to learn how to throw those quick short passes. This is about a tie. But I'll give this to Walter.
5. Decision Making- There couldn't be a worse category for these two. Both have had very bad careers in the ways of INT. Walter had less time to make his decisions than Tui. But Tui was always trying to run the ball on every play. But as I previously stated, Tui's been working on this in OTAs. Walter probably is pretty good in this area, it's just I have no proof of it. 3 TD to 13 INT aren't goo numbers. But then again, you have to blame that O-line once again. Unfortunately, until I see proof, Marques wins another one.
6. System fit- Look, we need a QB who can rollout effectively, and make some plays with his feet. Tui wins here. But we need a QB who can make deep passes with some short and medium ability. Walter takes the cake here. We need a QB who can make quick decisions that don't lead to turnovers. Both are bad, but Tui is better. Tui gets this section.
So overall, Marques Tuiasosopo is the more qualified backup with a 4-2 score. But I think Walter is the better QB overall. If we traded him to team in need of a backup. We could get a decent pick for him. If this team has a more solid O-Line than we have, and better receiver talent than Walter had in 06; Walter could be a good QB in the league in a couple of years. If the Ravens didn't already have plenty of QB, he could wind up a good player there. I think Walter will be traded next offseason, and Tui will get the permanent backup spot. But if we sign say Culpepper, Dilfer, or Rattay (who I hear has been signed to a team already, someone get back to me on that) they would get the backup spot. Until then, cheers to Tuiasosopo.
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I guess I stand alone in this
I like Walter, he has the size and the arm, and the youth. I know he will never get a chance here and I am fine with that, but he has really been given the short shrift here. He really never had a chance, no line, no running attack at the time, and Moss who he threw to and chose not to try and catch. Never mind that we had a tight end then who had hands of steel. I wish him well and wouldn’t be too surprised if he excelled somewhere else. The simple fact is that he wants out right now, he knows he has no chance here and wants a chance somewhere else, I am happy for him, hope that he gets his wish.
by Laoren on Jul 5, 2008 11:11 AM PDT 0 recs
I'm in the same camp as you:
Walter broke John Elway’s records in College and he has never gotten a fair shot here. Tui had some oppor-Tui-nitees, but blew his biggest one when he got injured.
I would like to see Culpepper return, but I think that he wore out his welcome last season. He still wants to start so i think he’ll join a team as soon as a starter gets hurt.
Pride And Poise!!!
by saint on
Jul 5, 2008 7:12 PM PDT
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Also
he broke Jake Plummer’s records and Plummer was no slouch as we well know. But I agree that Walter is the far better quarterback over Tui. Tui should of never came back to the Raiders and Walter is definently the number 2 to me. If Russell were to go down, Walter could still take us to the playoffs.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til' I die.
by thepunisher00187 on Jul 6, 2008 12:36 PM PDT 0 recs
Except for the fact
that he doesn’t fit our system and we’d have to totally rework it. But I agree that Walter is the better QB, just not for this team. I hope he finishes with a good career and wins himself at least a playoff game, if not more. I feel sorry that his career was crushed for reasons that weren’t his own. If the 06 line was a ZB scheme instead of PB and there was some receiver talent, he would be a pretty good starter for us.
"Lightning has Struck, Wearing Silver and Black"- Super Bowl XVIII
by KA1Z3R on Jul 6, 2008 1:15 PM PDT 0 recs
I kind of blame Kiffin for this
When he came to Oakland it was clear that he didn’t like Walter’s skills. Although Kiffin said it was going to be open competition it was obvious from the beginning that he preferred McCown over either Walter or Culpepper. I am sure Walter thought he should have been the heir apparent given that he had started most of the games the year before. Anyone who watched those games could see that Walter was dealt a very bad hand. Time will tell where Walter ends up, there are a lot of teams in need of a QB, and in my mind he is better than a lot of guys starting on other teams. I remember a guy named Plunkett that was almost run out of the league who ended up here and did just fine thank you. Sometimes coaches make big mistakes also.
by Laoren on Jul 6, 2008 3:10 PM PDT 0 recs
It's not Kiffin's fault
that the team doesn’t have an o-line. If they had better protection than a pocket passer like Walter would be able to succeed. We don’t, so they can’t, and a mobile QB like Tui is a better fit.
by RaiderPete on
Jul 7, 2008 4:46 PM PDT
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Good points
I don’t think Culpepper preferred McCown, he started McCown because of preseason performance and the fact that Culpepper was injured late in the season.
"Lightning has Struck, Wearing Silver and Black"- Super Bowl XVIII
by KA1Z3R on Jul 6, 2008 3:32 PM PDT 0 recs
It is true what you say about Culpepper
being injured and essentially coming in late. My complaint was that McCown started the 1st game in pre- season, Walter got the 4th quarter with the scrubs. The next week Culpepper started and if memory serves me correctly Walter never started a pre-season game. I guess all I am really saying is that he never got an equal chance, and in my opinion Kiffin preferred McCown from the beginning. Of course, it is possible that Walter looked awful in practice, I don’t know that. It is just my feeling that Walter has talent, more than McCown at least and never got a real chance. As far as mobility goes, I imagine that Walter is more mobile than Brady, that hasn’t hindered Brady.
by Laoren on
Jul 6, 2008 9:28 PM PDT
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Two things
A: A toddler has more QB talent than McCown
B: Brady’s as mobile as a lead weight in water
"Lightning has Struck, Wearing Silver and Black"- Super Bowl XVIII
by KA1Z3R on
Jul 7, 2008 7:30 AM PDT
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It's
Culpepper coming in late and not knowing the playbook as well as McCown. That is the main reason why McCown played in soo many games. With Culpepper the playbook was limited. The Raiders were able to open up the playbook with McCown.
by Raider76 on
Jul 7, 2008 8:21 AM PDT
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I guess you make a good point
But everyone knows Culpepper was the better option.
"Lightning has Struck, Wearing Silver and Black"- Super Bowl XVIII
by KA1Z3R on
Jul 7, 2008 8:28 AM PDT
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I Like Walter
He did show some mobility in the preseason game. He just needs some work.
Wack To Mack With The General and The Back. (J-Mac and D-Mac)
by Rayder K on Jul 6, 2008 3:57 PM PDT 0 recs
Walter
is a stand in the pocket passer and with our pass blocking he needs to be more mobile. If our line was better at pass blocking then I think he would be a good fit. We need a veteran back up. Just not comfortable with either backing up Jamarcus. Let’s hope for a healthy Jamarcus this year.
by Raider76 on Jul 6, 2008 7:11 PM PDT 0 recs
Unfortunately
Tuiasosopo has been brought in as our 2nd string i’m afraid. I honestly thought when we drafted Walter that he would be our starter and franchise quarterback the next year and for years to come due to his talent. The hiring of Art Shell is what set this team back 5 years again. Otherwise you would’ve never seen Aaron Brooks in there making us look and bad, and possibly would’ve seen Walter slinging touchdowns to Moss and Porter all year. It is obvious that Aaron Brooks was a bad pick up because many teams need a quarterback and he was on the free agent list all last season. I hope we keep Walter and make him the number 2 quarterback on the depth chart, release Tuiasosopo, and name Keller the 3rd string because he also has a lot of talent. Why do we need a veteran back up if we have these three good young guys in there. Let the coaches do their jobs, we don’t need Trent Dilfer or Daunte Culpepper to tell these guys how to play.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til' I die.
by thepunisher00187 on Jul 6, 2008 10:34 PM PDT 0 recs
Growth
We need experience to help in Jamarcus’ growth. One of the problems with Culpepper was that he wanted to be the starter more than a teacher. The coaches can still do their jobs but it means alot more coming from a player. If Jamarcus gets injured I want someone in who knows the game and the defensive schemes and can get in and go. I see too much inexperience in our quarterbacks. We don’t have to go after Daunte or Dilfer. Not a fan of Dilfer but the guy works hard.
by Raider76 on
Jul 7, 2008 8:36 AM PDT
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I'd rather we get Dilfer
than Daunte. Dilfer has better character and is used to mentoring a young QB (Alex Smith). He proved he can back up a young mobile QB as well (Alex Smith)
"Lightning has Struck, Wearing Silver and Black"- Super Bowl XVIII
by KA1Z3R on
Jul 7, 2008 12:32 PM PDT
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Veteran Quarterback
That is why we brought in Tuiasosopo. Which I am not looking forward to if Russell were to go down. I would still like us to pick Byron Leftwich as our veteran back up if we really think we need someone for that. Daunte Culpepper is also another good option for this if he can live with the fact that he will be the back up and not the starter.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til' I die.
by thepunisher00187 on
Jul 7, 2008 4:13 PM PDT
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Veteran Quarterback
Meaning game experience. Tuiasosopo doesn’t have enough starts under his belt to really be considered as a veteran QB.
by Raider76 on
Jul 7, 2008 5:10 PM PDT
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I
dislike him but he has been in the league for 8 seasons so he is a veteran. But I agree he is a bad back up for giving advice because he has as many touchdown passes as Russell.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til' I die.
by thepunisher00187 on
Jul 7, 2008 9:13 PM PDT
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Leftwich is a Falcon
therefore, we can’t get him. Besides that, he was awful last year and the year before. If I want a vet. backup, at least let him be good.
"Lightning has Struck, Wearing Silver and Black"- Super Bowl XVIII
by KA1Z3R on
Jul 8, 2008 6:30 AM PDT
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I thought Leftwich
was a free agent. He is okay when he is not hurt though. I think we should re-sign Culpepper then if we need a veteran back up so bad.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til' I die.
by thepunisher00187 on
Jul 8, 2008 12:58 PM PDT
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Tuiasosopo over Walter
Like what I see in both players, they Play for the Raiders, but this is why I pick T.Sopo. He made the team every year, working under I believe 4 different coaches, 4 or more different systems. Tui not having much game time, does have experiance in the game, and with working along side QB’s like Gannon, Collins,and Brooks. I believe he was also responsible for relaying the playbook to all these QB’s. That shows me he is on top of his game. Kiffin did say Tui is playing like he has been here for along time. I see T.Sopo’s past situation with us much like that of Fargas, not getting a chance to start until thier last year, or until there was a total meltdown at that position. Tuiasoso has passion for the game, a Raider at heart , he will be that positive Vet.QB for Russell, and our locker room. I also like the idea of a trade for Walter….
WIN, lose OR TIE RAIDERS TILL I DIE !!!!
by 8fog3town1 on Jul 6, 2008 11:23 PM PDT 0 recs
Nice Point
I did see him help out Gannon a couple times from the sideline during the GREAT 2002 season.
Wack To Mack With The General and The Back. (J-Mac and D-Mac)
by Rayder K on
Jul 8, 2008 5:14 PM PDT
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niether is better than the other
they both suck and they both sucked as the Raider’s QB
i hope we win a championship soon
by Da Jrich tribute on Jul 9, 2008 1:07 AM PDT 0 recs
What You Talking About
Gannon was great. He is by far the best Raider QB I seen play ever. (I wasn’t born when Blanda was around)
Wack To Mack With The General and The Back. (J-Mac and D-Mac)
by Rayder K on
Jul 9, 2008 4:52 PM PDT
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He meant
Tuiasosopo and Walter both sucked in the regular season as the Raiders starter. Gannon is my favorite Raider quarterback of all time next to the snake Kenny Stabler. Jim Plunkett was also awesome and Daryle Lamonica too. Neither Walter or Tui is really fit to be our back up but I would pick Walter if those were our only choices. We need to get Culpepper now in case Russell gets hurt.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til' I die.
by thepunisher00187 on Jul 9, 2008 6:55 PM PDT 0 recs
O Ok!
Then I agree with you.
Wack To Mack With The General and The Back. (J-Mac and D-Mac)
by Rayder K on
Jul 9, 2008 9:38 PM PDT
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