Maybe We're too Harsh on Al, Maybe He'll do the Right Thing
by Maddendude on Sep 16, 2008 12:10 AM PDT
26 comments
Let's not forget, without Al Davis, we wouldn't be nearly as successful. The image of the Raiders is the all Al Davis. The Raiders do it their own way, we're not like other teams. Look at our recent past. When people thought we sucked because we were bringing in old guys, we built a superbowl caliber team, that probably would've won it had the refs not given it to the Pats. We got screwed the second time. But the fact that we won the AFC says a lot. Since then, only 3 other teams have won the AFC, the Patriots, the Steelers, and the Colts.
And now, the seeds for the next great Raider team has been planted, and it was all done by Al Davis. He drafted the risky big names Russell and McFadden, picks that were questionable at the time according to analysts, when some people said do the safe thing and take Calvin Johnson or trade down, or take Dorsey instead of McFadden. And look at his later round picks: Morrison (3rd round), Howard (2nd round), Miller (2nd round), Fargas (3rd round), Bush (4th round), Higgins (3rd round), Curry (7th round), Grove (2nd round), Henderson (3rd round). I'd say he's done a great job in drafting.
He's just too quick at throwing cash at undeserving players, but if it wasn't for the dollars on the checks, we would've thought he was making great moves bringing in solid players. The only real beef I have on this issue is not paying Asomugha. He's been the best player on our team for so long. Our defense basically relies on him to play lights out, or else what happened last monday night would happen every game. I don't want him leaving like Woodson. On the other hand, there are a lot of good corners in this years draft! (That was a joke, but its true).
As for coaches, the last few coaches have all deserved to get fired. Callahan, Turner, and Shell were all bad. This Kiffin fued is the one terrible decision he's going to end up making. Because it's not going to be based on performance, but arrogance. I went back and read some old articles. The fued started when Kiffin I think expressed interest in some college jobs. "Al Davis, according to league sources, is all but ignoring Kiffin's presence within the team offices, to the point of not even allowing his coach to attend meetings involving personnel decisions, draft planning or free-agency evaluation." (SI.com Jan 08 article). Remember how the beef started, well Ryan wanted to go to the Jets, and Kiffin wanted him gone. Instead, to not let Kiffin win that battle, Davis kept Ryan and tried having Kiffin resign. This is complete arrogance, and as I said, won't be based on performance.
At the same time though, Davis isn't an idiot. Maybe he'll embrace this publicity and keep Kiffin. The Raiders haven't gotten this much attention in years, ESPN talked about us at least a few times today. Also, Al Davis hasn't received this much criticism from his own fans, maybe ever. (Don't hold me to that). Maybe thats the one thing that could get to him, his own fans turning on him. Maybe he has a monkey throwing darts at a board with different sections that say, "Fire Him", "Pay Him X Mil", "Time for New Coach", "Start Fued". Mort on ESPN says all his sources tell him, no one knows what happens in Oakland, nothing makes sense.
Regardless, I know that I have no choice but to stand by Al Davis. And I'm confident that success will come, we are way too talented for anything less. We might have to be patient though. But even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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You are right...Great post
I hope it works out with Kiffin, but if it doesn’t, then so be it. I stand by the Raiders as a franchise and Al is that franchise. The coaches and players are employees and they will always come and go. I will always support the team and whoever puts on that uniform. AD is what makes them different for better or worse, but I will take that over having a 49ers type of ownership.
This whole problem really started with that Arkansas rumor towards the end of last season. Kiffin’s mistake is that he didn’t deny it. Anybody who thinks that Kiffin was stripped of his power unjustly, think about from Al’s point of view. You hire a young unproven college assistant to be the Head Coach and face of your franchise. Less than a year in, he’s got his name out there for college coaching jobs. Would you let a guy who out there job hunting fire the defensive coordinator (who you like and will have to pay the final year of his contract along with any of the other defensive coaches who are gone also) and hire his own? Would you let him make all the personnel decisions if his loyalty is to himself and not the team?
It’s beyond belief that Kiffin didn’t know the circumstances of what he was getting into the Raiders. He broke the cardinal rule of the man who hired him and he very well knew that there would be repercussions.
Al Davis is Kiffin’s employer and an employer demands loyalty from its employees. Now that’s not asking for so much.
Your team is your child...You love it no matter what.
An employer does demand loyalty from his employees
but they can’t ask that employee to run a team and not involve him in personnel decisions. It is the employers responsibility to rise above it and make it work. He knows that Kiffin has one year available on his contract. If he was soo upset with Kiffin he should’ve fired him in the beginning of the season instead of letting this drag on and ultimately causing tension in the lockerroom. I love Al but it is time for him to let his coaches coach. The Raiders will never be successful if Al continues to tell coaches what they should run and who they should keep on the field. Al needs to get rid of these scholarship players.
Hey listen Al should be smarter than that. That was all media hype and unfounded. Even after Al checked that out it was found out to be a rumor only. But that is really not the issue. The issue is Al wants the spotlight for being the one to bring about the changes. He dislikes anyone else getting credit for making changes. After John Madden, Tom Flores, Gruden was the best coach. Kiffin is good because he demands excellence from his players. I loved the “No more scholarships” comments when he got there, because that is what the players thought and that is why they always under performed. Now Kiff wants to bring in a competitive enviornment so that we can have the best 53 players, what is wrong with that? Regarding Ryan, Kiffin wanted to blitz more because we were weak on our D-Line. You see what happen in KC when we did? Recall Willie Shaw (DC when Gruden was HC) he blitzed often and we were a very good defense. Al fired him because he wanted to look at HC positions. Instead of trying to help (since there was not going to be any openings in Oakland) he fired him. Why because he wanted more opprotunities for himself. That is how petty Al is! Remember he did the same thing to Art after his 1st HC stint. Recall Marcus Allen? What did he do to him.. Sat him because Marcus disagreed with him. Now that is our owner!
AD has stated:
“This is not the man I hired a year and a half ago”
That much is true. Lane had an opportunity to be taken under Al’s wing and be a Raider for life. Instead he listened to the guys who hate Al, like his buddies Shanahan and Gruden.
That is too bad. He is young and when he sees the players that he has bonded with doing well he will realize that it was him who cost himself a job, not Al.
But when they start scheming us the way these guys did, and we weren't particularly ready for it, anything can happen."
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Sep 16, 2008 8:30 AM PDT reply actions
I think
he is the man that got hired last August.
A man with a passion and fire in his eyes. Unfortunately, Kiffin didn’t really have complete understanding what Oakland was about and was a little naive to think he could change things. But if he is given time, I really honestly believe he can turn this around. But he has to be allowed to do his job. You want passion on the sidelines, but how can you have any passion or do any yelling and in-your-face game calling if he doesn’t have any say? His buddies Shanahan and Gruden? Maybe he talked to Gruden since his dad works for him, but where do you come up with these things?
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
He is friends with Shanahan
And yes he did talk to Gruden first.
But when they start scheming us the way these guys did, and we weren't particularly ready for it, anything can happen."
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Sep 16, 2008 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Come on now
I think Kifin is a good coach, but the thing that I have always noticed about Al Davis is it is Al’s way or the highway, and the thing is you are not going to win in this league if you are not willing to listen and accept new ideas or concepts. Yes Davis has drafted well, but when you are at the top of the draft, that is a lot easier than not, the thing is he needs to allow for Kifin to be the man there, or whoever is the coach, if he doesn’t then he will have will have one of two options:
1) Hire weak willed individual (usally a retread coach) that will submit to his comands and have no respect from the playes (see Callahan, Turner, and Shell).
2) Hire a young gun that will resent having Davis constantly in his business and will eventually leave (see Shannan, Gruden, and kifin)
Because I seriously doubt you will be able to hire a proven coach (Cowher or someone like him) or a good coordinator (say like Wisenhut) who knows there are better oppurtunities then the Raiders.
"How do the berries taste Ralph?" Bart Simpson
"They taste like burning." Ralph Wigam
Broncoman
Couldnt of said it better myself,
as a huge Al Davis and Raiders fan(I believe those 2 to be synonmous and cant be one with out the other) this cycle gets fustrating.
Steve Sarkisian turned down a head coaching job in the nfl for co offensive coordiantor at a collge.
Sean Payton turn down the job to stay as a qb coach in Dallas.
New England’s d cordiantor, Daniels I think, didnt even want to interview for the job.
So we got some decent talent, but Al’s arrogance is holding our franchise back at the moment. I just hope Kiffen doesnt land somwhere as a cordiantor in the AFC West. All we got to look forward to is James Loften, Denny Green, or Jim Fossil taking over in the off season…..
63, rest in peace man
Sarkisian did not turn it down:
That was media mumbo jumbo. In fact he talked Lane Kiffin up so much that Al interviewed Kiffin because Sarkisian kept on talking him up in his interview. Then Al ofered the job to Lane.
Payton did turn him down, and so did that College coach from Louisville.
But when they start scheming us the way these guys did, and we weren't particularly ready for it, anything can happen."
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Sep 16, 2008 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh. For crying out loud
How on freaking earth can anyone not see that it’s Davis’ screwing things up? Kiffin went to the media because he had to go to the media. You can’t get anything done diplomatically in Oakland. I won’t deny Kiffin mad some mistakes over his time here. But, to continue your analogies: A good employer would notice in a manager (or HC…) that they have some talent and would sit down and talk with them, figure things out, give them another chance and COMMUNICATE!
But you all think that’s below Davis. Because you all think he can do no wrong. Even after hiring Turner and Shell. Kiffin is the first coach in a while that had a plan for the Raiders. And even though we went 4-12 last year, we won 2 divisional games and the Raiders were a team. Now when he gets fired by your idol, then what? And if we start losing? Then who’s to blame? How long until you all realize that this is all on Davis?
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
Well
My only point was, because of Davis is why we’re so optimistic in the first place with our players. He has to be given credit for the good that he does. The criticism he receives is not always fair. After week 1 everyone was complaining about Hall, Wilson, Ryan, the D-line, the O-line. After week 2 everyone quieted down. If our criticism is flimsy enough to go up and down like that from one week to the next, maybe its not entirely legitimate.
The criticism in the recent past has been, firing coaches too quickly, but as I said, those coaches deserved to be fired. Kiffin is the one issue where the entire Raider Nation is divided. If Davis fires Kiffin it will be a mistake, thats for sure. But my other point was, one mistake doesn’t warrant all this hate that Davis is getting now. We will still be able to move on from this mistake, we have to. It might set us back a year, hence the mistake. But if this is the reason people want DAVIS to go, then thats going too quick to judgment.
I Think
Al Davis is creating problems for no reason right now. Just let Kiffin coach the team the way he wants. Why try to be in charge? It is evident that when you don’t let the coaches do what they want, we suck. last couple of years. When something doesn’t work, change it up. Damn.
Wack To Mack With The General and The Back. (J-Mac and D-Mac)
I Like To Add
If he fires Kiffin, imagine how hard it would be for the players. All the players seem to love Kiffin including Kirk, J-Mac, D-Mac. All of them said that Kiffin is a great coach. So, firing Kiffin will only set them up to fail this season.
Wack To Mack With The General and The Back. (J-Mac and D-Mac)
Davis Doesn't Need to Go
Al needs to retire, become the team’s biggest cheerleader, hire a GM, and let Kiffin be the boss on the field. When that happens the Raiders will win consistently and won’t be the dysfunctional joke they have become over the last 5 years. A GM would be a bridge/buffer between AD and the coaches. Hope he reads this and thinks about it, cause the Silver & Black are still the coolest team in the NFL.
Look I have been a Raider fan since 1967! I will continue to be so, however at some point when do you take ownership of your actions? This team was great during the Gruden era, why? because he wouldn’t take that me only attitude by those players and he had the power to get rid of them. Kiffin just wants to win baby! he has begun to change that me fisrt attitude by geting rid of some players that did not want to buy in. We have had 5 coaches in 5 years, and now you have even respected coaches (i.e Cower and Jimmy Johnson) saying the administration is a mess. Remenber even Art Shell said that his second go round. The players love playing for Kiff as evident by their calls to him concerned about his status. The real payers want to win and I am positive Al does, but in order to control you have to give up some control for the good of the franchise. Al is almost 80 years old, why won’t he Hire a GM of Football Operations (Like the days of Bruce Allen). We need it, no doubt!
at this point though
he can’t really do anything to help this team since he has a Vendetta against teams who don’t produce within two seasons. Which with the players and inconsistency he’s creating, this is nearly impossible. i think Davis should look for a replacement who actually believes in consistency.
"Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themselves without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, 'If I live, I will kill you. If I die, You are forgiven.' Such is the rule of honor." Omerta by Lamb of God
This thread is a joke.
I’m not giving Al Davis any kind of credit. For the last 5 years I’ve watched this team be driven in to the ground by a hard headed egomaniac that acts like the league hasn’t passed him by. He refuses to adjust to the fact that schemes and plays have evolved, and he loves running his defense like its 1994. It doesn’t work anymore, and it hasn’t since the super bowl.
I find it funny that the last time we got there we had a young stud of a coach that bucked the tradition of letting Al Davis give him the run around. Al Davis doesn’t believe in paying coaches, though. Just letting them walk and stealing their play book. That was all Al Davis and his greatness. I can’t remember the last time he made a move that had the entire league booming. And no, signing new players in areas where you need new players isn’t booming, it’s what you’re supposed to do.
We have Al Davis to thank for being optimistic? The front office drafts two sure thing offensive players, but it’s Al Davis we have to thank?
I’d be loads more optimistic if the guy would keel over already.
It’s okay to be a fan but it’s not okay to be this homer. Stop lying to yourselves.
I give Al Davis'
credit for finding these young talents. Kiffen and Gruden can both coach. Its his arrogance that gets in the way of us ever really succedding….
63, rest in peace man
The only reason we have two sure thing offensive players...
Is because this team has been horrible from the owner’s personnel decisions on downward to every facet of the organization over the past 5 years.
Was the Gruden trade even worth it in retrospect? Those draft picks were horrible. Who picked em? Mr. Davis.
Let’s review the coaches. After Gruden, we have had 3 complete duds, each one worse than the other…except for Kiffin.
Davis’ loyalty to players is famous. But as Lowell Cohn rightly points out, his own ego stands in the way of those players ever achieving greatness as we all remember it from the 70s and 80s.
Can’t we just get back to talking about football. I know that’s all that Kiffin and the rest of the team want to do. Hey, thank God Kiffin lit a fire under the butt of Ryan. Why didn’t we see that the first week? It’s because the Raiders thought all they had to do was show up and Denver would bow down.
Again, I agree with Kiffin’s comment that a whipping is a lot better than a 3 point loss b/c the weaknesses were so glaring.
Let’s hope we can sustain the momentum gained last week in KC and bring it Buffalo.
"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King
may I ask who these two "for sure" players are
so far Russell hasn’t shown us much of anything other than he plays mistake-free football, and we don’t know if mcFadden’s game against the chiefs was a one-time thing.
"Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themselves without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, 'If I live, I will kill you. If I die, You are forgiven.' Such is the rule of honor." Omerta by Lamb of God
Come on.
They are game changers. I don’t really care if you want to play pessimist. They both have long careers ahead of them (forbidding something ridiculous), and they both have the toolsets needed to be game changers. You can front like we don’t know who we’re talking about, or that they won’t be good players, but the fact of the matter is this: without them, we would be even deeper in the dregs then we are now.
Lets not play coy.
I'm not being pessimistic, I'm just not getting my hopes up
like I did with Randy Moss.
"Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themselves without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, 'If I live, I will kill you. If I die, You are forgiven.' Such is the rule of honor." Omerta by Lamb of God
i disagree
Just to let you know this is an outsider (eagles fan) perspective. But when I think of Al Davis I can only think of one other equally as retarded modern day owner and that’s Dan Snyder. McFadden is going to be a player but just look at what Al did this off season; grossly over pay a couple free agents. coaches dont even want to coach for the raiders under Al.
He has had TONS of success in the past, but that’s in the past now and it’s clearly time for Al to step down from making decisions.
"we wouldn't be nearly as successful without AL"
??are you effing kidding me??? do you know that over the last SIX YEARS we have been the worst team in football!!!
We have been abysmal since 2002. Al Davis is living in the past. Too much money was spent in the offseason and for what? Kelly, Hall & Walker are not worth all that money! Give me a break! There were better receivers out there. The Raiders were just too slow to grab any of them. By the way, Al Davis needs to let Lane Kiffin coach the way he wants to. This man wants to win. He is young and energetic. Al Davis should step the hell back and let him do it.
time to hang em up
Al Davis is a great football mind. I dont care what anybody says he was and still is a great football mind. However, dude is 79 yrs old. Time to hang em up espically if we r gonna fire a coach every year and have no continuity in our system. This is going to be espically hard on Jamarcus russel and could stunt his growth greatly. Learning a new system that fast isnt easy. Ask Brett Farve and hes been aroudn for nearly 2 decades!!! If they move kiffin this season write theseason off. end of story if we fire kiffin thats teh end of hte season and all us raider fans just got jipped again. Now before i get some nasty responses from the Davis faithful keep in mind im only being logical. Its our money that goes into season tickets/jerseys/etc… Nobody wants to see the raiders lose year after year. It just pisses me off with the way the media is having so much fun with this but when tom brady got hurt the lieks of adam sheffler went limp for the first time in 8 yrs. Gotta give the coach a chance is all im saying
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