Drafting another QB, really bad idea
by iBleedSnB on Oct 26, 2009 9:55 PM PDT
40 comments
Well, some of the talk resurfacing here on the Silver and Black Pride is which qb we should draft next year? Colt McCoy, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, etc. All bad ideas.
With the recent success of Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, and early success this year of Mark Sanchez, everyone seems to think it's really that easy to find a starting quarterback in the draft. These early picks had a few things in common. Ryan had a great RB attack of Michael Turner and Jerious Norwood, a go to receiver in Roddy White, and a pretty good defense. Joe Flacco also had a damn good RB core of Willis McGahee, Le'Ron McClain, and Ray Rice. Great veteran WRs in Mark Clayton and Derrick Mason. Not to mention a pretty vicious defense. This year Mark Sanchez has been put in the driver's seat of a NY Jets team with a well equipped defense, great running backs Thomas Jones, Leon Washington, and Shonn Greene. Decent WRs in Jerricho Cotchery and newly acquired Braylon Edwards.
So I think it's safe to say these three early draft picks had a pretty good safety cushion to help with their learning curve. Unfortunately, this isn't always available to most quarterbacks who are drafted as early as they were. I mean look at poor Matthew Stafford. Sorry buddy.
1) Drafting the big name guys early from the big name schools, doesn't really work out all that often.Of course there are a few exceptions to this.
Peyton Manning-1st overall, 1998 out of Tennessee
Carson Palmer-1st overall, 2003 out of USC
----------------------------------------------Obvious examples of big name and no game----------------------------------------------
Vince Young-3rd overall, 2006 riding off the coat tails of his Rose Bowl victory and BCS National Title from Texas
Matt Leinart-10th overall, 2006 more so for the teams he won with after back to back BCS Titles in '03 and '04.
Brady Quinn-22nd overall, 2007 more for his record breaking ability at the fabled Notre Dame University
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2) The real success comes from the quarterbacks from the smaller schools who have a great work ethic and leadership. These are guys who didn't really have much television time and are happy to get a shot in the NFL.
Ben Roethlisberger-11th overall, 2004 from Miami, Ohio. 2 time Super Bowl Champ.
Donovan McNabb-2nd overall, 1999 from Syracuse. 5 NFC championship games and 1 Super Bowl appearances
Drew Brees-33rd overall, 2001 from Purdue. led his team to the best aerial attack the past 2 yrs, Super Bowl XLIV?
Jay Cutler-11th overall, from Vanderbilt. Almost 10,000 yards passing and 62 TDs in 3 and a half years.
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3) If you're gonna take a chance on a guy, you can take a quarterback in the later rounds.
Tom Brady-199th overall, 2000 from Michigan. umm....oh ya 3 time Super Bowl Champion.
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4) You can not, I repeat you can not, draft a quarterback when you need a quarterback. You have to draft a quarterback when you have a quarterback.
2005-Aaron Rodgers 24th overall pick from Cal
2007-Kevin Kolb 36th overall from Houston
2008-Dennis Dixon 156th from Oregan
2008-Kevin O'Connell 94th from San Diego State
But why would Green Bay, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and New England draft a QB when they already had Brett Favre, Donovan McNabb, Ben Roethlisberger, and Tom Brady already leading your team? Because you bring in a fresh youngster in to learn the game behind your star and leader of the team. Get their feet wet in some garbage time of games to learn the speed of the NFL.
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5) One of the best ways to get a quality quarterback is a free agent who has been around the block a time or two.
Rich Gannon-led us to almost back to back Super Bowls, but at least our last one, Super Bowl XXXVII . Drafted 98th overall (late round) in 1998 out of Delaware (small school) by the Patriots. He was later traded to the Vikings. He also had stints with the Redskins and Chiefs where he learned the NFL game and helped lead us to our last taste of victory.
Kurt Warner-led "the greatest show on turf" in St. Louis to Super Bowl XXXIV victory. Led the Arizona Cardinals to last years Super Bowl as well. Was undrafted in 1994 but was invited to tryout for the Packers. Next went to arena league success with the Iowa Barnstormers. Sent out to NFL Europe before ending up with St. Louis. So he definately earned his keep before getting his shot.
So let's not buy into the great idea of getting a big name quarterback in the draft to change the luck of this team.
Late rounder, small school, with leadership and a good work ethic. Of course we would need to have good scouts to pull that off. But I guess that's a whole new fanpost in itself.
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Your right on target
this team lacks the structure for a young qb, we need a meat and potatoes draft, lineman and line backers. You have to get back to basics before we can add the glitzy players, as we can see they can’t perform in a dysfunctional situation. Plus Im not that high on any of the qb’s in this years draft outside of Jake Locker
by nateroddick20 on Oct 26, 2009 10:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If you notice...
The QB’s that are from the smaller schools, but have the proper skill sets, can handle defeat. You think Vince Young understands what it means to lose? How about Matt Leinhart? or Brady Quinn? No, they were QB’s on teams that had great defenses and O-Lines. You could any QB behind the lines those guys had in college and watch them pick apart a defense.
You need a QB that was a grinder in college, the guy that went the extra mile to improve his trade. Ben Roethlisberger was from Miami of Ohio. He new that he had to work harder, better and more than anyone else to be the best he could be or his team had no chance to win. He carried that trait onto the NFL. He had the skill sets to start with but he also knew that he had to get better. The same can be said about the other QB’s you mention too.
Very rarely will you find a Manning or Palmer, a guy that played for a great team, but yet he was still a grinder and always trying to improve. And Brady is a once in a generation find.
You are right also that you have to draft a QB when you already have a QB. You need a mentor for your future. The problem is when do you get him? Year 5, Year 10, Year 15? You have to draft at a right time, you don’t want your current QB to think that you are pushing him out but at the same time you don’t want to miss your chance to get a QB that you can hopefully mold into what you currently have. And of course if you have a situtation like the one Green Bay had, you are just screwed. Aaron Rodgers fell in your lap, Brett Favre is long in the tooth, and he should retire within three years. It was a perfect storm, until Brett thought he could play another 10 years.
Great Article, You might look at Kevin Kolb in Philly, I imagine he as a true franchise QB, but I don’t know if Philly will part with him.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Oct 30, 2009 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We need a vet but also somone who can be here for a while
We also need production from everyone else to help out the QB even though JR has been AWFUL. The pigeon is our most productive player…
Rookie: "Why did you bench me?"
Nellie: "You're a rookie"
by dubzfan on Oct 26, 2009 10:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think David Carr
looked pretty good when we played the Giants. he’s still pretty young. I think someone had mentioned that he’s gonna be a free agent next year, but i could be wrong.
by iBleedSnB on Oct 26, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think David Carr
is a great choice, a solid vet that understands the game. In the draft I would get LB and DL depth and add a piece or too to the line. this team needs an identity, if we are going to be a running team then be a running team. Every week we seem to come out expecting them to shut down the run, good teams enforce their will. We need to be able to stick to running the ball even if it isnt successful. That keeps are D off the field and begins to wear down opposing defenses
by nateroddick20 on Oct 26, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How About
Byron Leftwich, he is a guy who played for a subpar college, has been around the block, watched as Pittsburgh won a Super Bowl, got beat out in jacksonville by gerrard, and sort of has the same types of tools as JMR
by B.A.Armstrong on Oct 30, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait and see
I think it would be best to wait and see if we could trade down and get multiple picks in the upcoming draft which some are calling the deepest in years.A quarterback and linemen on both sides of the ball are needed.Wouldn’t it be nice to have a deep defense because our present quarterback keeps them on the field so much.At this point which is needed more a offensive lineman or a defensive lineman but I would like to address that !st before selecting another QB.So my choice would be wait and see, give Russell the rest of the year then make the call at that time.
by bayparkphil on Oct 26, 2009 10:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
in the game against Philly
the defense looked really good. Reason being, the offense gave them some time on the sidelines to rest because they were actually putting together some drives and not just a bunch of 3 and outs. Gradko looked decent when he was in there last sunday. i would like to see him start and finish a game.
by iBleedSnB on Oct 26, 2009 10:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I like what I'm hearing now. but also the ones selecting
The evaluators, scouts et al. (intended) must go beyond statistics – which can distort. Meet these prospects, evaluate them in person; hang out with them, drink beer with them and their friends, find out what they’re about inside. The QB prototype is a rational animal, with quick mind and reflexes, who thirsts for glory and hates losing and losers.
Btw, it would be even better if he were able to throw a decent spiral with velocity to a given point.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Oct 26, 2009 10:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
that's why i say
you get alot more leadership and work ethic from the small school guys. big name guys are “the big man on campus in college” and even the big name of their town or city.I think that’s the problem with JR. he’s been this big name in high school, setting state records and such. same when he was at college. he prolly never had a coach to help him develop a good work ethic because he always had his natural ability to fall back on
by iBleedSnB on Oct 26, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
supporing cast
LSU had a great supporting cast. The receivers could make Chris Carter catches all day.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Oct 26, 2009 10:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sign a FA
I’d like to say that we should sign a FA..But who would wanna sign to a team that practically has a sign on the front door saying " Play with us..And you’ll ruin your career"
I say we grab the smartest and most dedicated QB in the draft along with a imposing Nose tackle…And Al needs to catch up with the times and move to a 3-4..
by Remix. on Oct 26, 2009 10:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lets get a General Manager
and let him figure it out.
"May the wind be at our back, here comes the Silver and Black "
by RUKidding on Oct 27, 2009 4:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
+10,000
Unfortunately, it has about zero chance of happening.
"'Tis a bird I love, with its brooding note, And the trembling throb in its mottled throat; There's a human look in its swelling breast, And the gentle curve of its lowly crest; And I often stop with the fear I feel-- He runs so close to the rapid wheel." Nathaniel Parker Willis, "The Belfrey Pigeon"
by Raybin on Oct 27, 2009 5:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have to risk the draft
And that’s because…..have you looked at the crop of free agent quarterbacks in 2010? It’s seriously weak.
"'Tis a bird I love, with its brooding note, And the trembling throb in its mottled throat; There's a human look in its swelling breast, And the gentle curve of its lowly crest; And I often stop with the fear I feel-- He runs so close to the rapid wheel." Nathaniel Parker Willis, "The Belfrey Pigeon"
by Raybin on Oct 27, 2009 5:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Right Now...
….I’d trade Russell for Jake Delhommme and call it even – if they’d make that trade!
:=8/
Actually, I’d trade him for the guy selling hot dogs in the stadium parking lot and call it even.
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Oct 27, 2009 12:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Reading this post is a really good idea
I still have a little hope that JaMarcus Russell can develop into a starting caliber NFL quarterback but if he doesn’t pan out it seems to me that going with another 1st round pick would be a bad idea.
The next rookie would face many of the same problems Russell faces when it comes to subpar line play,poor receivers,outdated schemes and new coaches every year or two.
Maybe a veteran guy can come in and take the reins the way Gannon did and at least provide professional level quarterback play.
by sirbed on Oct 27, 2009 1:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i said it once, and i'll say it again:
a rookie QB, no matter how talented he’s supposed to be, MUST have the right coaching and team spirit in order to develop.
Knowing that the raiders have been on the loosing side for about 5 years, I believe that, for russel, transitioning to this kind of team that has had trouble with the GM, coaching, and player attitude, it’s A LOT harder to transition to this kind of team. If matt ryan was on our team, i think it’ll take him a lot more than half a season to become what he is now, and jamarcus would improve a lot more if he was on the Falcons of 08(or 07, just because they had vick on the team when russel was drafted).
by patriotguy on Oct 27, 2009 2:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I think it would be a shame for Oakland to lose JaMarcus after investing all this time and money in him. Christs sake he’s only 24. he could end up going to a team like Minnesota, sit for a year behind Farve, and then go out and win super bowls.
the guy still makes throws that nobody else comes close to, and throws that defenders can’t get ahold of.
by B.A.Armstrong on Oct 30, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the mention of minnesota is pretty much
what i’m talking about. Tavarius Jackson was pretty much drafted as the future QB. he has had a bit of a chance to show what he’s got early on. it really isn’t up to NFL standards just yet although he did have plenty of shining moments just like JR has so far. But the Vikings new they had a top notch defensive, a great RB in Peterson, and good receivers. they just needed a veteran QB to manage the game and put them in a position game in and game out to win. that’s why they brought in Favre so Jackson can learn and continue to develop behind him. He still is the future QB of that franchise, just not ready to be the man right now.
The same needs to be done with JR. try to get garcia or even…stay with me here…take a shot at MCNABB. if i’m not mistaken, this is the last year of his contract. if not he has one year left. I doubt they are gonna take it all this year and with the way kolb has played in his absence, I think anything less than a super bowl victory and philly is gonna cut their ties with him.
by iBleedSnB on Oct 30, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
McNabb's
always hurt. And he’s not a real good QB either. He didn’t take them to the Superbowl, he just played in it.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Oct 30, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with you.
he had a good year in 04, but terrel was a BEAST then! mcnabb is great, but i don’t think he’ll fit the system and he needs to make more accurate throws. how he’s playing now though, he’s starting to look average.
by patriotguy2 on Oct 31, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
McNabb has already reached out to Russell, and even though he is injury prone, he would be a great role model, I also think that JMR could do a nice job filling in if McNabb were to come over and get injured.
by B.A.Armstrong on Oct 30, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i just think that jackson on the vikes is not his type of system
the vikes need a pocket QB, and jackson is not. which is why i like Rosenfelts(spelled it wrong).
by patriotguy2 on Oct 31, 2009 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give the job to Gradkowski
Fear is the Mind Killer
by dubzero23 on Oct 27, 2009 5:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
if he can prove to me he can win
which I surprisingly think he might actually be able to, why not?
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
by KA1Z3R on Oct 27, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'd agree with that
if Gradkowski can be the QB of the future. otherwise, wed just be wasting our time.
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Oct 31, 2009 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the Vikings are going probably going to go with Rosenfels and look for Jackson to be on the trading block, Rosenfels was brought in not to teach Jackson but take over and when Jacksons contract is up he’ll be gone and the Raiders would be wise to pass on him because he basically has the same accuracy problems as JR but he is fast and mobile which is the difference between the two. I think Cambell is the best bet for the Raiders and then draft a solid rookie in the 2nd or 3rd round to learn from Jason for 2 years, that would be a good scenario because Cambell, although not a great QB, isn’t horrible either and I think he’ll give the raiders a chance to win now plus he’d be a good mentor to help groom a young rookie QB.
by smalljaw on Oct 30, 2009 4:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i like cambell
he has plenty of potential and has a great attitude.
by patriotguy2 on Oct 31, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cambell.?
why him.? he looks scared when he plays and with our “great” protection we get at the line, he would make us worse… the raiders need a QB who’s a leader, not afraid to get hit, and has decent accuracy where our young receivers can catch the ball.
by ButtMunch on Oct 31, 2009 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
cambell is very coachable.
but having a veteran QB teaching cambel is the best scenario for him. cambel is slightly above average as a QB, and that’s on a team that has very few talent. look at his stats with the team:
http://www.nfl.com/players/jasoncampbell/profile?id=CAM375235
To me, it’s pretty good when factoring in the team he’s playing and the talent he had to work with. but if he happens to be with us, the raiders will be tougher for him, but like i said, he’s very coachable, has a winning attitude, and is good at working with what he has.
by patriotguy2 on Nov 1, 2009 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I SAY SIGN KEVIN O'CONNEL
HE WAS RELEASED FORM THE PATRIOTS AND WAS RUMORED TO BE A PART OF THE BURGESS TRADE SO PICK HIM UP HE IS A THIRD ROUND PICK FROM 08 HE COULD DEVELOP INOT A GREAT QB
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."
by TheAutumnWind on Oct 31, 2009 7:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
he's not bad.
he didn’t do so well for some reason this year with us. he’s fast, and has a strong arm, but it seems that leading and accuracy are suddenly becoming an issue for him. he’s kinda a risk, and i don’t think he can turn our team(raiders) around.
by patriotguy2 on Oct 31, 2009 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he would probably be good to bring in
if we had a good solid veteran QB for him to learn from. But if NE let him go either they must be feeling pretty good about Hoyer or O’Connel just wasn’t who they thought he was.
by iBleedSnB on Oct 31, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he didn't do good with the fucking patriots
how will he do well with us?
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Oct 31, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he could be another cassel? who knows.
he’s done great with us last year. i was even surprised about how he was playing this year, and he seemed to show it in practice.
by patriotguy2 on Nov 1, 2009 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
love this post
I completely agree. I would be soooooo pist off if the Raiders went for Tebow. yes he is an amazing player but idk if he will be good for us. To me it really depends on the character the QB has. Hard worker, perfectionist would be nice, love for the game, desire to win. those i believe are more important than natural talent. Jamarcus has natural talent, i mean he has the potential to be one of the best QB’s ever…. but he is lazy and has no love for the game. it seems all he cares about is the money in the bank. Till someone messes with that he wont be a even a good QB in my eyes.
So i say a leader, hard working QB, small school, love for the game, desire to win. thats what we need to look for besides just talent.
by ButtMunch on Oct 31, 2009 6:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think that you make a lot of good points, and i agree with your main point.
but i dont agree with some of the examples you make. its definitely to early to call Brady Quinn or even probably Vince Young a bust. its also too early to call Kevin Kolb or any of the other QBs in that “draft a QB when you already have an established QB” a success, unless there name happens to be aaron rodgers.
my point is that drafting a QB is not an exact science. There have been a lot of success and a lot of failure in just about every method of drafting and developing a QB. So for any given category listed above, you can make it look like an easy success or an easy failure based on who you happen to choose to list in that category.
but overall, i think that itd be a good idea to give Jamarcus every opportunity to fail. and let’s be honest, with inconsistent receivers, o-line and a pretty bad running game, what exactly should be expect from Russell. I’m not saying Russell looks even remotely decent, I’m just saying he’s being put into the worst of situations and then expected to succeed.
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Oct 31, 2009 8:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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