Let's Address the 275 Pound Elephant In The Room: Congratulations to JaMarcus Russell, Now Get Back To Work!
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 20, 2009 7:03 PM PST
112 comments
I was on my knees and praying when there were 40 seconds left on the clock. I was praying that the Oakland Raiders, despite their limitations would be able to pull out a win today! I was praying that JaMarcus Russell would find someone open and win the ball game for us, and he did. Finding Chaz Schillens on a crossing route and hitting him in perfect stride for 6.
By listening to the player interviews afterward and also taking into account what I saw today, JaMarcus is still 3rd String, behing Gradkowski and Frye, BUT, today he earned the game ball and he should be proud of his teammates for helping him out on the last drive and also proud of himself.
What I saw:
JaMarcus was being stone walled by his teammates when he entered the game. It was as if they could not believe he was actually entering the game and the man who'd brought them up the hill all day was sitting on the bench because someone missed a blitzer and you could see it in everybodies eyes and even's one's body.
After having a penalty on his first play from scrimmage, he then, shortly thereafter, burned a time-out. On his way to the sideline, Louis Murphy gave him a shoulder bump as he jogged past. This was the sort of bump that could be incidental, or it could be a message. A message that Louis did not like being blamed for JaMarcus' short comings and he was sick of him screwing up the offense, by wasting, yet, another time-out because he couldn't get the play right.
As everyone, even the announcers on CBS, could see...The Raiders were doomed. They looked like they were going to lose and it was because JaMarcus Russell was in the game.
After buring the time-out, JaMarcus, as has been his NFL custom, underthrew a wide open Louis Murphy on 3rd down, missing a play that would have put the Raiders, who were down 3 points, into Field Goal range.
The next time he got the ball, the team was down by 6 points and on third down he threw a low pass to Michael Bush, that Bush should have caught, but it was dropped. Once again, the television announcer, said exactly what the rest of Raider Nation was thinking. He thought that if Frye or Gradkowski threw that pass, Bush would have caught it.
Raider Nation, after that possession things looked bleak. It was going to be the Redskin game all over again. The starter goes down and JaMarcus comes in, out of shape, wearing his bling, without warming up and gets sacked 6 times as the defense finally folds.
I mean, how many of you were surprised that on the final drive JaMarcus was acked for -13 yards and fumbled the ball? My guess is NOBODY.
Then something magical began to happen. After getting bailed out of a 2nd and 23 from his own 25, by a passing interference call,JaMarcus Russell began stepping up in the pocket. He also got rid of some balls out of bounds when his guys weren't open. But, most importantly, he threw most of his passes on a direct line to the tightest places possible and his receivers made plays.
He did throw a pass behind Johnnie Lee Higgins that Johnnie made a nice defensive play on, but when he came back in from an injury and hit Tony Stewart on 4th and 10 for a first down, I actually sat up and said, "You can do this JaMarcus"!
For the final 2 plus minutes of this game, JaMarcus made us all fans again. We were not booing him, we were cheering for him. And when
When he completed his final pass, on the TD, to Chaz Schillens, he looked like a young man who was humble. Even as some of the other players started goofing with him, he just shook head and pointed upward, as if to give the credit to something, or someone, much greater than he.
That is a great start for him, in his maturation process, now maybe he can graduate to the level where he appreciates those around him.
What Players said:
(Paraphrased)
Chaz Schillens - "Charlie Frye had us prepared for this game. He came out and kept up on the script"
Michael Bush - "If you are booing a young player on your team, you need to not come to the game"
I like the fact that Bruce was working with Cable on play calling at the end of the game and that Charlie Frye is taking control of the offense throughout the week. Honestly, Cable needs the help, and he listens. Kudos to those three for working together.
As to Michael Bush's comments, I don't think that he understands that we are the paying customers, and if we don't like the product on the field, it is our right to boo. And yes, Michael, JaMarcus deserved the boos. Being a player in the NFL is not too unlike being a Rock Star in that they are always performing and rarely get a chance to be fans, so there is a disconnect.
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cant get upset that he won the game for us......
but i hope bruce gets healthy quick…..or frye i thought except for the one lame duck he did well
by sballdayerday on Dec 20, 2009 7:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
won the game
the last time ichecked there were elevn raiders on the field on game winning drive.dont give him all the credit
by bigbobhunt on Dec 21, 2009 7:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but the other ten players combined
don’t have the same potential impact that jamarcus had. don’t get me wrong, im not saying jamarcus has arrived, but he definitely took some steps forward.
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Dec 21, 2009 10:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And that's fine
as long as he keeps going forward.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Dec 21, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
lets hope he puts in work to become the starter.
it will not be handed to him
Punjabi by Nature
by Robby1987 on Dec 21, 2009 7:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you hear his interview afterwards?
He was talking to Flores and that other announcer and he couldn’t get out of quarterback mode, he just kept using quarterback speak, and describing some of the weaknesses of the Bronco defense matched up with play-names in his repertoire.
Sounds like he’s studying, but he could use a little advice from Crash Davis when it comes to post game interviews.
by xville on Dec 21, 2009 8:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Quarterbacks
I said if Jamarcus Russell bailed us out of Denver I would buy his fat ass a double cheese burger. I guess I owe his fat ass a super size combo. Charlie Fry needs to put on some muscle, one good hit and he was out. The benefit to Russell is that all his fat gives him extra padding. Hopefully Gradowski will be ready to go against Cleveland.
by RaiderNation4Life on Dec 22, 2009 2:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
JMR showed he isn’t a complete screw-up. But seriously, what happened to that momentum he had going at the end of last season? I know he wasn’t that great, but he gave everyone something to hope for.
by Amigo on Dec 22, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm kinda with Mike. I don't like that Jamarcus is even on the depth chart, but don't condone booing our own guys
this is an excellent forum for voicing our discontent with our team’s miscues, be them by coaches, players, or by Al’s infamous intereference, but find booing the guys on the field, especially at home, pointless.
Express your dissatisfaction with the product by not purchasing tickets; that, by far, will be heard most strongly by those who matter.
that being said, nice post, saint. extremely well said.
As much as I’ve been hating on Jamarcus, I still wish he’d pull his head out of his ass, and get his shit together. It’s been because I’ve felt he’s squandering his God-given abilities and this rare opportunity he has, that make me adamant about my disappointment in him. Embrace this gift you have, and be the best you can be.
by brhynno on Dec 20, 2009 7:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
glad you posted this, saint, and had reason for doing so
I’ve no doubt you were pulling for JMR, regardless of your recent harangue against him. We all wanted to win this one badly and were pulling for all the Raiders. JMR doesn’t deserve this game ball though (you got carried away (again)) – it should go to Michael Bush or Tyvon Branch. Let me say that Gradkowski has had a tremendous effect on this team (maybe even JMR) ever since we booed JMR off the field in the Jets game; I think those hearty boos affected Cable’s decision to bench him and play Bruce. I trust Grad and though Charlie had a decent game today, I am not ready to put my faith in him (that throw to the turf didn’t seem very severe yet gave him a concussion, so he may have an eggshell skull). The drama continues with our Raiders … this is anything but a dull organization.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 20, 2009 7:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
From Laser Pointers to Losing Pants...
A well-written blog. Comprehensive. I want Gradkowski and Frye starting. Russell needs to stay backup. But the entire team came together. Had Russell been inthe entire game we wouldn’t have won. Frye ot us those 13 points up front. Let’s hope he and Bruce can mend and get back out on the field. From the laser pointer to Kelly losing his pants; from the fights to Russell coming in and leading the winning drive—what a game like only true Raiders can play it.
by SusanM on Dec 20, 2009 8:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
That is what I THINK Schilens was alluding to:
Frye won the game and JaMarcus finished it…Thank Gawd!
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 20, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
way to go raiders! jamarcus still just the odd man out
he shouldnt even be a back up! the money we can save by cutting him after this year that could go towards something we really need. its sad when he is 5-11 47 yds, a strip sack, 3 ball deflections straight in the air, 8 out of the 11 were bad throws, the td, and this is what we consider a good game from him. im glad for the win but trust me, russell tried harder to lose this one than to win it and thank god the football gods were on our side today! congrats team(even russell) but you still need to go!
by rodeosnake12 on Dec 20, 2009 8:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
+1
well put.
"Mel Kiper has his opinion and I respect it. But what does it mean? My 9-year-old nephew can watch film and make an opinion. I think I value the opinion of scouts who get paid to make their opinions. It will carry me through my career. It will serve as motivation for me." - Mike Mitchell
"I'll be the guy on top of the Quarterback" - Richard Seymour
Here they come baby, Just win baby, Feel the storm of the cold autum wind baby
Its the Oakland Raiders, Get your mouthpiece
You in the black hole, With the black beast! - Ice Cube 'Raider Nation'
by Ozraider on Dec 21, 2009 6:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But read the media's spin and compare it with what we witnessed
they make him out as an Achilles who finally enters battle to single handedly win victory for Oakland. I despise their superficial assessments.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 21, 2009 6:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We need Gradowski Back.
I was real scared when Jamarcus went it but he made some pretty good throws and surprised the crap out of me. Congrats to him. This is my look on the QB situation.
1) Bruce.!
He needs to start. He drives this offense and they just seem to click and we really need that. He is our best QB and hope he resigns with us next season.
2) Losman
he should be our number two. He’s played well in the UFL I guess and he was just signed but he can probably command the offense better than the others except gradowski.
3) Jamarcus
that fat piece of lard needs alot of work. Though today he made some really nice and tight throws. He has immense potential but lacks everything else. In time he might be the quaterback we drempt of and time will tell but he needs to remain a back up.
4) Frye
for someone who was a gym rat and very hard worker he sucks. Horrid passes and he should’ve had like 3 picks today. Yes he can run but his decision making does not resemble Gradowski sadly. Still better fit that jamarcus for now.
by ButtMunch on Dec 20, 2009 8:42 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Maybe if Jamarcus moved out of the Oakland Hills and into East Oakland, he could be more of a badass too…
by Amigo on Dec 22, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
JR started off horrible
But finished the game well. I have always said that he’s good in late game situations, not because he’s brilliant, but because he rarely gets rattled. His throw on the pass interference play was good, and he made some good passes late (although his lack of pocket awareness is evident on just about every snap).
So thanks to JR for delivering today. Unfortunately, for everyday game use, he’s still a 3rd string QB, and he makes too much money for that. If was an underpaid rookie, we’d love him for late game situations, but as a #1 pick with a huge salary, well, he should be cut in the offseason.
@worldblee on Twitter.
by worldblee on Dec 20, 2009 8:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It takes time to develop as a player in the league.
It can take 4 to 5 years to catch your stride, especially as a quarterback.
As far as Bush’s comment, I think he’s right on the money.
Speaking of money, we need to rework Jamarcus’s contract, keep him on the team, and get a better QB coach to develop his mobility, his read progression, and his interview technique.
In any event, it was a great team win, and now I wanna see some talent when it comes to picking for our needs in the draft.
Oh, and fuck the Broncos.
by xville on Dec 20, 2009 9:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What are you kidding ? You have a right to speak your mind just like you are doing now with your post.
But I disagree with you. So agree to disagree i guess
by RocklinRaiderfan on Dec 20, 2009 9:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It might help if you explained what you disagree with.
by xville on Dec 20, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bush being right on the money. So we can't boo cmon thats almost as American as Apple pie. or the wave at a baseball game
by RocklinRaiderfan on Dec 20, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry man, but booing your own team is weak.
Booing the other guys team, now that’s apple pie, especially if it’s the orange ponies.
by xville on Dec 20, 2009 11:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Winning doesn't have an 'h' ... or an 'x'
Some of us have a stake in the outcome and are emotionally charged. Our influence affects decisions for the greater glory of the Raiders. …
Others, like you apparently, are fertilizer-fed cabbages with contented shit eating grins.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 21, 2009 11:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or, you're just a whiner, who like a little child needs
immediate gratification to the detriment of the team’s longer term goals.
by xville on Dec 21, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even as a child I could never put clothes on an animal
I think that’s a dog (can’t be sure) – that you are abusing. Why not give it to Michael Vick for dog food? You’d be doing this poor creature at least one kindness, i.e. a swift escape from you and your creepiness.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 21, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That isn't my dog.
That’s just some chihuahua with a peg leg, eye patch and pirate hat.
Though I’m wondering if he’s really missing a leg.
by xville on Dec 21, 2009 8:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably is ...
it would be a shame to eat him all at once.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 21, 2009 9:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So you have a blind aligance ? And the team wasn't getting booed it was Jamarcus.
Your probably just a passive guy and it’s ok to suck. See if he was playing with passion like Gannon used to I would see. But he isn’t. Ok I hear he doesn’t watch film that much doesn’t go to extra meetings….but loves to collect that check. So that means our Sundays arent enjoyable and we are the bud of jokes on the news and among co-workers. Well I don’t want that so I will boo and so were were about 40 thousand other Raider fans at he KC game and it worked
by RocklinRaiderfan on Dec 21, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you can say your booing (is that how you spell it?)
russell and not the team, but what do you think the guys on the field hear it as? You boo one guy, you boo them all. It’s not blind aligance, its being a raider fan, before a jamarcus hater.
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Dec 23, 2009 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"what do you think the guys on the field hear it as?"
I think they hear it as music to their ears because we voice what they are feeling. It’s obvious from player sound bites and body language that the team prefers some other leader. Obvious also that they can distinguish who the boos are directed at. Your argument is pathetic. Who does this sort of rhetoric work on? Where have you been all your life, in a feminist colony?
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 24, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Russell is terrible
He needs to be cut. You don’t sign a guy to a 6 year contract thinking he’s going to suck for 5 years. Beating the Broncos with Russell and his teribadness at QB was so much sweeter though.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
by Ovale Fan on Dec 20, 2009 10:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Last year, the receivers couldn't bring down his passes.
This year, he’s had an intermittently competent/incompetent offensive line, rookie receivers and a receiver who he was timed in with, injured.
Not only that, he only started one game in 2007, ended the jobs of Shanahan at Denver and Grudy at Tampa; and then we pull him a little over halfway through this season -, even though 8 of his passes were dropped in the game that supposedly justified him being pulled.
We haven’t even given him a full two years.
Sorry, I don’t see the terrible as much as I see the potential.
by xville on Dec 20, 2009 11:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The poor guy is overmatched at the NFL level
The line is worse when Russell is in. The receivers are worse when JaMarcus is in. The play calling is worse when JaMarcus is in. Pile on top of that the fact he can’t throw (to anyone on purpose), run, look off coverage, audible, grasp playbook concepts, read and recognize coverage, secure a football or look anything like a NFL quarterback. Yea, he’s not good.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
by Ovale Fan on Dec 20, 2009 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless of course he's leading the
game winning drive against the Broncos, the line holds, and the receiver who he’s timed in with is in.
by xville on Dec 21, 2009 12:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a lot of
if’s and things that need to fall into place for him to win. Which does not make him even a good QB. It makes him a QB at the right time and place.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Dec 21, 2009 4:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Counting on the offensive line not to fall apart is pretty normal.
And developing timing with other receivers was coming online when they pulled him.
by xville on Dec 21, 2009 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually his timing has regressed
The rest of the QB’s play with he same line they are just better. Your sample size (2-3 passes) is irrelevant compared to the rest of Russells body of work. That’s like saying the worst player on your baseball team got the game winning hit so he is “coming along.” The players .195 batting average tells a different story. The best thing about yesterdays game is we beat the Broncos with our worst player. That victory is so sweet.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
by Ovale Fan on Dec 21, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Those "better" quarterbacks haven't been tested over the same
period of time, with the same kinds of issues.
In any event, you can’t say that Russell’s timing was off the game they decided to pull him.
His receivers couldn’t catch the ball.
by xville on Dec 21, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool
I agree the sample size for both Frye and Grads is pretty small as well which is why I do not believe we have the position solved yet.
X I’ll say this…the situation for Russell was less then ideal. The line has been below average over the years and the DHB project was a complete failure. Coaching changes and organizational failures have added to the confusion. All that being said I just don’t see a successful future for Russell in Oakland and believe he should be cut.
Any thoughts on Murphy? I kind of like his aggressive edge and his hands are starting to come around.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
by Ovale Fan on Dec 21, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As far as our receivers go:
Shilens is good with Russell, as are our Tight Ends. DHB is an overpaid work in progress, and Murphy is the best value for the money. I also like how we had to lean on Murphy when Chaz was out, because that kind of burn in experience is invaluable.
I think he’s been a good addition.
So I think there’s a decent balance, but our draft heads did Jamarcus and Cable a disservice by not getting Crabtree.
You see, Davis was seduced by the dream of DHB getting under those cannon shots, and he figured a faster, slightly taller DHB would fit the bill. And to tell you the truth, I’m not completely convinced that he won’t -but it will take a few more years, not just a couple. But the meat and potatoes passes of Russell are harder to catch than the softer touches of Bruce or Charlie. Not all receivers are good at catching those kinds of blazing passes -just look at Curry.
Crabtree could have handled those rockets better, and our season would have likely been 8/8. Crabtree would have appreciated the money, and the running game we had, but our draft team didn’t seem to have a sell strategy,
In all honesty, we could’ve picked up Bey in the second, or picked him up after he was cut from a team who didn’t have the arm, and who would in all likelihood, not have the kind of patience needed for his development.
The biggest problem I see in the NFL are the construction of these contracts. And this lopsided distortion is likely the result of the whole industry of sports agents who have a stake in frontloading the signings because of commissions.
But you gotta play the game, and should always go for the best player to address your needs. And the needs of the raiders would have been met better with Crabtree, though the “wants” of a lightning fast deep threat proved irresistable.
Russell has got a game changing arm, good size, and a temperment that is level-headed and persistent.
I’d keep him protected in the pocket with a couple of new OT’s in the draft, let’s get some depth on that line.
Any later round receivers we acquire should be tall.
by xville on Dec 21, 2009 8:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Aaron Rodgers anyone???
Last I looked, Green Bays line was attrocious and Aaron has been on his back more than a 2 dollar hooker….but I do believe his numbers are waaaaaaaaaaaay better than Russells. Just saying!
by BlackHole77 on Dec 22, 2009 7:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lets not kid ourselves
aaron rodgers is on a great team. who needs an o-line when your throwing it up to greg jennings and donald driver anyways.
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Dec 23, 2009 9:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
doesnt matter whos leadin the charge against the donks
we would cheer maurajuanavich (remember that ‘tard?) if he was leading a win over a rival, doesnt mean he was a good qb…. and like maurajuanavich, RUSSELL hasnt proven to us that he has the brain to be our starting qb…. yes he hit Chaz at the end, but that does not excuse his TD to INT ratio, throughout this season… OVALE hit with the fact that he cant do anything that a #1 qb should do, other than look fat and lost…. He cant look off the coverage, read the d, stay in a shifting pocket, connect accurately on 90% of his throws, shoulder responsibility, hold onto the ball during a sack, scramble, basically everything brees, rivers, or the manning girls do…. HE’S A BUST. Cut him, sign bruce, and draft some stud LINEMAN, O and D…. A crushing MLB would be good for the transition to 3-4….
by VaderBDCRaider on Dec 21, 2009 7:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with most of what you said
but if your standard for a “good qb” is everything brees, rivers or the mannings do, then you have exactly 4 “good qbs” in the NFL.
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Dec 23, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sell now, stock is at peak
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 21, 2009 7:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's the same old excuses
and yet no solid reason why he regressed from last year to now.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Dec 21, 2009 4:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
HERES A REASON
He hasnt prepared to kept up to par with the league and its ever shifting pool of talent, schemes, injuries, weaknesses and strengths…
He spent more time eating deep fried everything than studying film, or working out…
His Uncle died. (weak)
He a youngun that isnt used to all that money and is out til 3am gettin tats and partyin and eating deep fried everything….
by VaderBDCRaider on Dec 21, 2009 9:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
HA..HA..HA.................HA....HA....HA.....lol
…….Hey !! I agree with you….." fuck the Broncos "
by Raiderfanaddict on Dec 21, 2009 3:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
fuck the broncos
rite on fuck the broncos
by bigbobhunt on Dec 21, 2009 7:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
the fans should definitely have the right to boo, especially if they are paying customers. But booing does absolutely nothing to help the players or the team. It basically eliminates any home-field advantage the raiders had receiving.
I’m a Raider fan before I’m a Jamarcus/DHB hater, which is why I NEVER boo my own players at the raider games..
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Dec 21, 2009 10:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry Michael Bush but your out of bounds.
I think you forgot we had to actually pay to come in the front doors of the Oakland Coliseum. We don’t get in free. So when I buy my ticket I have the right to boo whoever the hell I want. It’s not like we had a hair pin trigger with the boos. He was bad for a lot of games. It is expensive to come out to games. Hell parking is 20 bucks. And remember we pay your salary. There would be no NFL if it wasn’t for our emotion for the game. And that includes boos when it is justified. We don’t worship you players with blind alligence. If you suck you get booed. Sorry but I keep it real.
by RocklinRaiderfan on Dec 20, 2009 9:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Best time i've had watching a Raiders game in a bit
Gotta give everyone credit. Despite all the set backs & oddities this was a legit game. Great redzone defense by both teams. I’m just glad the silver and black didn’t quit today.
Now let’s get two three in a row!!!!
by $73.27 on Dec 20, 2009 9:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
IM WITH ROCKLIN
im damn sure not gonna even start thinking about holding my boos back for russell. to acccept that kinda money and to get us his 7th win in his 31st appearance doen not have me believing in him at all. he tried harder to lose that game than to win it. 3 decent passes out of 11, not gonna cut it, and as far as frye, he managed a game plan for 45 minutes and thats why we were in it despite his stats!
by rodeosnake12 on Dec 20, 2009 9:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Rodeo Snake....we can boo if we think it will motivate him if anything.
by RocklinRaiderfan on Dec 20, 2009 9:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that is our only option
What else are we supposed to do. Cheer so that the coaching staff continues to push JR ahead of Frye and Bruce. I didn’t boo right away, but after the Jets game it was needed.
by Sbay on Dec 21, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
dont think for a second
that the coaching staff or al davis give a shit about whether or not the fans boo or not…they just dont.
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Dec 22, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree. I saw it work in the Jet's game
Cable was getting ready to send out JMR again before the half ended and the boos grew louder and louder and suddenly Cable called for BRUCE and the crowd went wild (not even knowing what they were in for) and … the rest is history.
Boos in moderation is good.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 22, 2009 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i was actually at that game...
probably the worst i’ve been to. But, I can tell you that I’m absolutely positive the boos had nothing to do with russell getting taken out. Taking a shit on any chance of us winning that game did. What was it? a fumble and 2 picks (one in the endzone?)
I was sittin up close watching Russell on the sideline. He looked like he was about to go back in well into the 4th quarter. I mean the dude left his helmet on and stood on the sideline the entire game. If you noticed, Gradkowski was actually warming up w/receivers well before Russell came out, which proves that it wasn’t an impulse decision based on the fans’ reaction.
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Dec 23, 2009 9:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The boos started in the 1st quarter and grew in intensity
as the game was sabotaged by that one-man heartbreaker. Cable may have feared for his life when he called on Bruce, so ardent and violent were our cries for change. The Raiders’ hit rock bottom that day – worst blowout at home in franchise history – but a handful of fans (36K) revolted against Cable’s revolting player and play selections and turned the tide for their team.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 23, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
while that was a great little tidbit of writing
i dont believe that those handful of fans had anything to do with jamarcus getting pulled. I think more than anything, jamarcus’ horrible play had to do with jamarcus getting pulled. the truth is, I’ve been to a ton of raider games, and the booing has never been diffferent. It’s the same everygame. I would even say that its been louder last year and earlier this year because there were more fans at those games. I cant say for sure, but I think that Jets game was the only time Russell gave up 3 turnovers in one half. all crucial
but the bottom line is this. I do not know for fact whether or not Cable pulled jamarcus because the fans were booing. and unless you have some contact thats within the raider organization, you probably dont know for fact either. Theres no way, w/o asking cable off the record, whether this is true or not. I will say though, that if Cable actually listened to a large group of drunk, pissed off fans with absolutely no legitimate experience working in the NFL, then he shouldve be fired ON THE SPOT.
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Dec 23, 2009 4:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Btw, Jamarcus was not standing on the sidelines with his helmet on
for almost the entire second half he was sulking on the bench, probably in disbelief. He seemed and seems to have a bulletproof obliviousness to how badly he performs. The final drive Sunday is a rare exception. As for the effectiveness of fans booing disapproval or posting opinions on web-pages, I believe it is significantly effective. Prove me wrong!
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 23, 2009 6:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if booing had any effect, whatsoever
russell wouldve been benched last year.
i can count three russell-led 4th quarter comebacks this year, off the top of my head. and given that he’s actually only played in 10 games (starting 9), I’m pretty sure that PROVES that those final drives we saw sunday are in fact not a “rare exception.”
While it is easy to prove that Russell has been able to score late in the 4th quarter relatively easy, it is impossible to prove you wrong about whether or not Cable actually considers fans booing when he coaches. While I cant prove you wrong, you certainly can’t prove me right. I can only say that any coach that listens to random drunk fans w/ no credentials whatsoever is a goddamn fool and a shitty coach.
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Dec 23, 2009 6:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would expect a True Raider Coach
to have greater regard for the Raider fan base. You seem to have contempt for the Nation evidenced by calling them summarily ‘random drunk fans’ – as the majority expressed the same disapproval of JMR and Cable by means of booing. I invite you to surf other NFL Team Blog-sites and compare the level of analysis they have with S&BP’s If this site is representative of the demographics at the Oak-Alame coliseum then a Raider HC would be foolish to disregard the common opinion of the team’s fan base.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 24, 2009 7:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sons of blanda
i AM the raider fan base (so are you). season ticket-holder. im a young fan, started following the team in 2003. no offense, dont try to label or characterize me. you dont know me. I have no contempt for fans of my own favorite team because for the most part, i’m almost always defending the silver and black.
ive been to a ton of games over these last 7 years, and i can tell you with certainty that through my experience, the fans booing the loudest are usually drunk and always have no NFL experience.
What if other people in society, like doctors and school teachers adopted this philosophy of giving in to the casual person. we’d have people w/o any medical knowledge making important medical decisions. We’d have the most important decisions of education made by random joe, who never made it past geometry. This is my point with Cable. he can’t and absolutely shouldn’t listen to fans booing, because then he is allowing important football decisions to be made by fans that have the possibility of being drunk, high, pissed off and most importantly, having no real NFL experience or KNOWLEDGE. don’t get me wrong, if we have bill belichick and bill cowher sittin in the stands wearing raider gear, maybe Cable should listen to them. But he definitely shouldn’t give into Joe Average and Bob Mediocre…
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Dec 24, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you shouldn't always sit with your inlaws
because in my experience the fans around me at games are mostly intelligent and more sober than me. We see things as they are, we know when a qb or mlb makes a horrible read, when Cable calls a predictable play, when Russell throws it into the ground or behind a receiver, we see a player drop passes, and arm tackling – but we also see and cheer – for heroic tackles, cool pocket presence, needle threading passes and clutch catches, and when the team works in harmony. The Nation knows quality goods and it knows shoddy goods; it knows when the engine is running smooth and when it needs mechanical work.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 24, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
again, acting like you know me...
look man, im not trying to generalize everything you do. id appreciate it if you didnt do it to me. thanks. i sat right around the black hole for 2 years, and have just moved over to the 15 yd line. my point is, my experience at the raider games is not very different from yours.
onto my point, a lot of fans are incredibly knowledgeable, such as ourselves. But its not like only the most knowledgeable raider fan has a voice when he attends a game at the coliseum. Everyone does. and thats going to include some casual fans who dont watch the games very closely. Its also going to include drunk bastards that don’t know what the fuck they’re booing about. Trust me, if you havent noticed them there, you haven’t been paying attention. And I wasn’t pointing that out for only raider fans; it happens everywhere.
And let’s just be honest w/ ourselves now. I cannot count the # of times Russell has been booed after one of his receivers drop the ball. Point being, while the raider fan is knowledgeable, the raider fan is not unbiased.
But the bottom line is this, while you can write a beautifully written paragraph about how knowledgeable the nation is, you don’t provide any concrete facts, numbers, analysis that isn’t subjective to opinion. Its a nice paragraph, but it doesnt prove or disprove ANYTHING.
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Dec 24, 2009 2:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I enjoyed this comment
Very Socratesque. Socrates however is constantly pleading against the excesses of democracy, so he tends to exaggerate and equivocate—as you do here, too. All the booing does is indicate something is not right; a smart person will rather take this as valuable data and reassess the situation. I think Cable eventually did so. (Blanda—it seems from your posts that you are unhappy with the speed he did it, but that’s another topic I shall not address here.)
by Spirals galore on Dec 24, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hmm..interesting.
i actually dont know very much at all about socrates. im not sure i understand, after re-reading the posts in which i tend to equivocate. nothing i said seems to be too vague or misleading. could you possibly specify, so i could reiterate what i said?
I would say that I am much more open to your “in-between” approach in which you use the fans as a source of knowledge, w/o becoming a puppet of the average fan. But I would say the coaching staff is still a much more valuable tool. Raider fans booing did not make Cable realize that 3 turnovers in one half is horrible.
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Dec 24, 2009 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This here was a slippery-slope argument: “What if other people in society, like doctors and school teachers adopted this philosophy of giving in to the casual person,” etc.
By the way, I am a teacher and can tell you that taking into account student evaluations does not constitute “giving in to the casual person.” Students, just as fans, are not casual persons—they are part of the whole process of whatever is going on.
by Spirals galore on Dec 24, 2009 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Socratesque [sic] - that's a good one
Wasn’t he known for being hyper-rational? i don’t consider arguments from universals sound when particulars are left out. I.e Booing players on your team is wrong, period. Categorical dogmatic and false. The particulars are the following: a Coach who is timid and needs encouragement to do the right thing, e.g. take Russell out of harms way, use Bush, blitz when the D-line can’t do it on its own, call plays that use our positives against an opponents negatives, play the best players, etc.
I do see one very narrow meaning for your Socrates reference, viz, his hostility to democracy, namely, the common citizen, who he looked down upon as irrational and base and to whom he ascribed most of Athens’ problems. So do you, like the elitist naq92, also despise the Nation?
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 24, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"Categorical, dogmatic and false"
Indeed, so is your characterization of Cable, o Mighty Defender Of Al (aka OMDOA).
by Spirals galore on Dec 24, 2009 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I gave particular examples contra Cable
and did not categorically or falsely characterize him … unless you’re referring to my calling him an Oaf. But the sum of parts equals the whole – so maybe he’s even a failure at being an Oaf, having as he does some saving qualities.
As for your reference to Mr. Davis, that is beside the point (ignoratio elenchi), a changing of the subject (red herring) and an overt tu quoque.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 24, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OMDOA, I read all your posts
and know that you glamorize what you call Al’s macchiavelian manipulations (pardon me if I paraphrase, but your comments come at 15000/hr, so it would take me 30 minutes to find the one where you used a phrase to that effect; suffice to say, it was in a blog re Hanson’s return to the Raiders’ front office). But you are right—I failed to answer your recent question, which was whether I shared naq92’s elitist spite of the Nation. Before I address it, let me ask you—how on earth did you come with that insight, o Master of the Straw Man Argument?
by Spirals galore on Dec 24, 2009 5:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's no secret that Al is a manipulator
I did not glamorize that fact only pointed it out in order to correct what some were referring to as a conspiracy. Al’s not sneaky, he doesn’t conspire, he does things openly. For a conspiracy you need at least two and Al does things alone. He has a huge ego and wouldn’t stoop to conspiracies.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 24, 2009 5:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant the insight that naq92 and I are spiteful of the raider nation
by Spirals galore on Dec 24, 2009 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just asked?
As for naq92, he refers to those who were booing as “random drunk fans” even though those booing were the majority of fans in attendance. Thus, he betrays himself as a despiser of the Raider Nation.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 24, 2009 5:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In his later post, naq92 said
“But its not like only the most knowledgeable raider fan has a voice when he attends a game at the coliseum. Everyone does. and thats going to include some casual fans who dont watch the games very closely. Its also going to include drunk bastards that don’t know what the fuck they’re booing about. "
Not sure about spite towards the raider nation, although naq92 surely betrays a dislike of fans who drink.
by Spirals galore on Dec 24, 2009 5:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
been out for a couple weeks
but thx for sticking up for me, spirals.
unfortunately, this guy cannot be reasoned with. hes much better left alone…
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
by naq92 on Jan 8, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LANGSTON WALKER
was outsatnding for his start at left guard. he bulldozed openings for our backs and it showed. i had to rewatch our big runs and see that big body just shuck dlineman out of the way. great play oline and glad cable made that change! plus dumerville was held to one assist, really nice work
by rodeosnake12 on Dec 20, 2009 9:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
+1
Cable needs to stay on for at least one more year.
by Sbay on Dec 21, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
- 2
(but consider keeping him around as a cheerleader)
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 21, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep him...
…he should be kept only on if he brings in an OC and he gives up the play calling duties. Also he needs to find a better OL coach.
Otherwise the team needs the stability at HC and they seem to like him, plus he seems to work well with Al; yea he’s a “yes-man” but in a way that’s a good thing cause it doesn’t create unneeded turmoil.
The last thing we need right now is a new HC coming in to do things his way. Al won’t like that and will do everything to assert his power at the expense of the team.
Cable is the best coach for us until Al relinquishes control…..but he needs to give up the play calling and hire an OC.
Cable Bumaye! Raiders Bumaye!
by SBcitizen on Dec 21, 2009 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree but
he does need some help with the play calling.
by Rusty23 on Dec 21, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Russell
He completed five passes. Of the five, three went to Schilens and two went to Stewart. I just wanted to point that out. Russell made it happen without his favorite target.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Dec 20, 2009 11:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Now that you mention it, good work Brandon Myers and Tony Stewart
With the exception of Dudley, Al has an eye for TEs
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 21, 2009 7:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
russell
i am just happy we won and that russell finally earned some of the millons he cost al.
by bigbobhunt on Dec 21, 2009 7:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Saint
Great post! In a couple years when JR has developed into the stud quarterback (a big if), we will gladly cheer him. We just want to show him, that he may have a guaranteed contract, be our cheers are not guaranteed.
by Sbay on Dec 21, 2009 11:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
i told yall
and yall threw russel under the bus. Russel did win the game by himself if you ask me. we where about to lose then russel comes in and blam we win in denver!!!!!!!!!!! go raiders
YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD YES!
www.reverbnation.com/czheckproductions
by Czheck on Dec 21, 2009 12:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
did you
have your eyes on your butt??
by Spirals galore on Dec 21, 2009 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm assuming so
since he can’t even spell Russell’s name right.
by Rusty23 on Dec 21, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I knew all the Russell fan boys would come out
of the woodwork now. It was so quiet.
Given how he’s been playing don’t you think all you Russell fans should remain calm and make sure it isn’t just a fluke?
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Dec 21, 2009 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice winning drive
Hi all! Long time reader, first time poster.
Just want to say, that yes, Jamarcus headed a nice, winning drive. Good for him! A couple things to consider:
-Chaz Schillens is clutch. Every time I hear about him, he’s catching a winning touchdown or something. Likewise, Gradkowski, Murphy are clutch too. There are a lot of clutch players on the Raiders. Give credit to Jamarcus, but don’t shortchange the rest of the team. What we saw on Sunday was the development of “the rest of the team.” Someone, somewhere, said, “we’re winning this DESPITE Jamarcus.” Or, said to Jamarcus, “you better get your head on straight for this game or I’m kicking your butt.” And Jamarcus took it seriously. Just my theory of course.
-There may be some non-quarterback leadership developing (Bush?) which is a good thing. Leadership is associated with, but does not have to be exclusive to, the quarterback position.
Browns next week! One game at a time!
by shadowfreder on Dec 21, 2009 12:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Welcome
The game was awesome. If I can pick two games every year to win it’s always @DEN & @KC. I honestly can’t root for either of those teams even if they play each other.
I’m also noticing leadership and a little more swagger from some of our youngsters. I think Murphy may develop some on the field leadership skills. He seems to be a hard worker with a strong desire to compete and it’s showing in the form of improvement on the field.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
by Ovale Fan on Dec 21, 2009 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
is it just me...
is there a non-black person who has black friends that think they are racist because i think jamarus sucks and voice an opion on other player.it seem they can comment on any non-black player as if they slapped their mamma,but make a comment about a black player and all-of-a-sudden i dont know what i’m talking about.it’s a double standard that earn me a couple of fist fights and the lost of friends.i’m objected in my critizism to all players brown,black or white.jamarcus russle you suck,i was your biggest supporter.who wants to waste a 1st round draft pick especialy at your pay rate.so to all you two face fucs suck a big one.i am who i am…
by bojackson34 on Dec 21, 2009 4:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
well good for you
haven’t seen a racist post yet on this article til now. Why bring it up?
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Dec 21, 2009 5:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
go watch cables
monday press conference and tell me how much faith he has in russell. never once brought him up on his own words. never mentioned him but went on about the rest of the team and their play. not untill reporters asked questiond sirected towards russell did he speak about him. this to me is a tale tale sign about russells future here, and im gald, he needs to go and wants to go!
by rodeosnake12 on Dec 21, 2009 9:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
wow
there is a big difference between loyalty and stupidity, but apparently some people didnt get the memo. what in gods green earth can ANYONE see in JaBustus as the future for this franchise?? Please enlighten me. What qualities does he posses? Why, when Grad is obviously the better player, would you chodes still rather have fatboy playing?
Russell is a CANCER. With his stupid mohawk and spinner earings. How can you not see this. If it wasn’t for that pass interferance call then we would have lost that game. Fatboy made 3 easy passes, whoopty freakin doo. He also fumbled ( again ) wasted a timeout, and botched 3 easy outs. I love my Raiders, but to support him is to accept losing for as long as he is the starter. That I will not do. Sometimes I think we have the stupidest fans on earth. How long would he last on the Steelers, Cowboys? Or Colts?
The General of all that is Sports
by stonewall jackson on Dec 22, 2009 1:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
fans are not stupid by having faith.
I always had faith in maroney for instance, when everybody wanted him out.
Besides that, Grad is the better player because he talks with coaches, talks with his players, studies more film, and strives to get better.
Jamarcus is not doing those things, or if he is, very little. He already thinks in his mind that he was already a great QB in college(I know, obviously it’s not college), and because of this, he thinks he can solve his problems on his own. That’s why he’s not improving. He’s not letting anyone help him, and blames his problems on others sometimes(like the time he blamed his teammates a few weeks ago when gradkowski was doing well, and he says that the players need to play better for him(not exactly in those words)).
He needs to communicate with others and study film in order to get better. He’s not doing that at the moment, but we have faith that he’ll pull his head out of his ass, and get working.
Besides, if we try and cut him, we lose a shitload of money, and i doubt anyone would trade for him, so lets hope for the best(it’s not like he’s starting the next few weeks or anything).
by patriotguy on Dec 22, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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