Oakland Raiders News: Now That The Dust Has Settled On The Win Over Pittsburgh, What Needs To Happen Next?
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 7, 2009 6:59 AM PST
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PrintYes, Raider Nation, yesterday's win was the best victory that this team has had in many years. Sure they beat Tampa last year to knock them out of the playoffs and they've already beaten Philly and the Bengals this season, but yesterday was MUCH different than any of those victories.
When the Raiders beat the Eagles, they caught a team that was unprepared for the blitz packages, heck, they were unprepared for any blitz at all and the victory over the Bengals took a fluke play at the end to win. Even the victory over Tampa wasn't as sweet because it was ALL Michael Bush with a little JaMarcus Russell thrown in.
Yesterday, the Raiders found a quarterback and they scored three passing touchdowns in the fourth quarter, without rushing ONCE on the final drive. The Raiders and Gradkowski said, we are going to beat you through the air, now try and stop us, and the Steelers, playing in a "Playoff Game", couldn't.
There are many positives, but, now that the dust has settled and a VERY MAD Redskin team is coming to town on Sunday I want to focus on a few things that I noticed that definitely need work.
1) Trevor Scott in the Elephant role:
Trevor Scott was brilliant on the first defensive play from scrimmage, he gpt right into the backfield and allowed another player to make a play on Rashard Mendenhall and he also had one of the defensive plays of the game when he sackeg Big Ben on third down and made the Steelers try a 53 yard field goal into the wind instead of a 48 yard kick. These two plays, in particular, say to me, that the experiment can work.
The work that he needs to do, from what I can tell, comes down to gap integrity. Too many times yesterday I saw him over-pursue and get washed by a lineman opening up a lane for the running back. On Rashard Mendenhall's 60 yard run it was Trevor Scott who was not home. He got washed with the momentum to his right and then sealed by the lineman. He, and the defense as a whole, as cable says, need to stick with their gaps in order for the run defense to work.
His football acumen is fantastic. This is a kid who has gone from Tight End to Defensive Line to Linebacker in 4 Seasons and he looks to have all of the tools to play the "Elephant" in John Marshall's defense.
2) Darren McFadden's struggles unless he gets the ball in space:
Darren McFadden has NOT been, even, a decent between the tackles runner and the coaches need to stop treating him like one until he learns to run in the zone blocking scheme.
Those of you who took part in the game thread yesterday probably got sick of me pointing out that he continues to run into the line and then try to bounce outside instead of just letting the hole open and then popping through it.
The reason that FOR YEARS you could plug any running back into the Denver Bronco backfield was because they were taught to be patient, let the line go to work and then pop through the vacancy that their scheme created.
Can Darren McFadden be an every down back in the NFL? I really can't say right now, but, I can say that he needs to FIRST run within the scheme before we can even guess. Right now he just isn't working out between the tackles and it is a simple fix, he just needs to be patient.
3) Stanford Routt is responsible for more big plays in the secondary
This is a huge problem because he isn't even a starter. He is a nickle cover corner and may only be the dime player now, yet he seems to always be the guy getting burnt on a big 3rd down conversion, for a touchdown or getting a passing interference/defensiveholding/illegal use of the hands that helps the other team sustain drives or end them in the end zone.
I know that he is Al Davis's pick and that he will have EVERY chance to succeed, but, for me, he needs to play in the prevent ONLY.
Well, raider nation, there are three things to work on going into next week. If you have a comment on these, or would like to add your own, ie; block somebody, then please do soin the comment thread below.
Go RRAAAIDDEERRSS!!!!!!!
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Another big one
Is defensive players sticking to their lanes on running plays. Smart teams are going to run the ball down our throats until we fix our problems with players being out of position (and making tackles when they’re in a position to do so). When we give up 20, 30, 40, 50 yard running plays every game, teams don’t necessarily need big pass plays to get big plays against us.
@worldblee on Twitter.
Yep, Trevor is NOT the only one with that problem
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 7, 2009 7:10 AM PST up reply actions
Playcalling also a factor w/ McFadden woes
If you know a RB struggles to run in between the tackles, why on earth would you keep calling for runs between the tackles with McFadden out there? With so much grass to work with, there are plenty of other options, i.e. screens, pitches (McFadden’s most successful play of the day), swing passes, etc.
McFadden has gotten the rap for being our version of Reggie Bush, but at least the Saints figured out how to use Bush to be valuable to the team. We keep putting McFadden in a position to fail, rather than a position to succeed.
Prevent John Marshall from running the prevent defense!
Gotta say, dude, it's damn nice to see you back again
Come around more, you hear?
“We keep putting McFadden in a position to fail, rather than a position to succeed.”
The story of the last 7 years summed up in one sentence. Russell, DHB, Andrew Walter, etc etc etc.
"'Tis a bird I love, with its brooding note, And the trembling throb in its mottled throat; There's a human look in its swelling breast, And the gentle curve of its lowly crest; And I often stop with the fear I feel-- He runs so close to the rapid wheel." Nathaniel Parker Willis, "The Belfrey Pigeon"
Thanks man
I feel bad being made an editor here then getting busy again with school and other projects. I’m hoping to be able to make a better contribution during our offseason discussions, and there will be plenty to talk about.
I'm in the smallest of minorities, but I'm still a big supporter of JaMarcus Russell.
The misuse of McFadden is borderline criminal
In general, the idea of 7-9 is not wholly fantasy. If we do the things right we did against Pittsburgh and fix the mistakes, there’s no excuse to not beat Washington and Cleveland. Denver has looked very, very beatable at times this season and maybe with Gradkowski at QB, things will go differently. At this point, I think the last game against Baltimore if the toughest matchup for us, since their dominating run game could cause us fits.
Here’s what needs to happen on offense:
1) Gradkowski consistency
2) Proper use of McFadden
3) Cohesive o-line play
On defense:
1) The evolution of Trevor Scott on the weakside
2) Consistent three down effort on the d-line. They’re too good to look as bad as they sometimes do
3) Chris Johnson pulling his head out of his ass and playing like last year.
"'Tis a bird I love, with its brooding note, And the trembling throb in its mottled throat; There's a human look in its swelling breast, And the gentle curve of its lowly crest; And I often stop with the fear I feel-- He runs so close to the rapid wheel." Nathaniel Parker Willis, "The Belfrey Pigeon"
Gerard Warren
The D-line has been good except for its weakest link, the human paper bag known as Gerard Warren.
Regarding McFadden. We have ahead coach that is an offensive line coach, a “passing game coordinator” in Ted Tollner and QB coach in Paul Hackett. The running back coach, Kelly Skipper has all of 0 years experience at that position, as he was the tight ends coach the past 2 years wit the Raiders. For McFadden to used properly, he needs a coach who knows how to teach the intricate skills that the position requires at the pro level as well as a coach who knows how best to design a running game with the talent he has.
Your team is your child...You love it no matter what.
I agree 100%:
In fact, I mentioned this in the Game Thread, Juston Griffith was our best RB coach for the past two seasons as he helped teach these guys how to run effectively in the ZBS.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 7, 2009 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
Warren out of position
We’ve all said it before, Warren is playing out of position at NT. We need a real NT to plug up the middle. Warren would be OK if he was backing up Kelly at UT.
I'm in the smallest of minorities, but I'm still a big supporter of JaMarcus Russell.
Question:
If we do develop Trevor Scott, and put Morrison as out Strong side LB,
1) Who plays MLB?
2) What happens to Thomas Howard?
by NFLanalyzerfromhome on Dec 7, 2009 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
This will depend on the offseason
of whether or not the Raiders sign Howard and Morrison who will both be free agents.
Your team is your child...You love it no matter what.
As much as I love Captain Kirk...
….and I do, since the man is a Raider through and through, if Scott develops at WLB and Howard adapts to SLB, Kirk should go or be made 2nd string at both SLB and MLB. Ideally, I’d like to see Brandon Spikes or Rolando McClain drafted in the first round as his replacement.
I think we have the personnel to run a 3-4 system and if I could wave a magic wand, that’s what I’d do. Warren could play nose with Kelly and Seymour as DE. Have Ellis and Scott as outside rushers and Howard and Morrison on the inside. Maybe we could draft Terrence Cody from Alabama or Dan Williams from Tennessee to be our NT with Warren as backup.
"'Tis a bird I love, with its brooding note, And the trembling throb in its mottled throat; There's a human look in its swelling breast, And the gentle curve of its lowly crest; And I often stop with the fear I feel-- He runs so close to the rapid wheel." Nathaniel Parker Willis, "The Belfrey Pigeon"
Agree
Draft Spikes in the first, and a NT in the second. Ive always said a 3-4 would work. Now with Scott playing the way he is, I would love to see it. Except maybe have Howard at the OLB. He can be fast enough to pass rush, and we all know of his pass D skills. Ellis maybe has 1 year left, hes getting old
MLBs if available: 1st choice Rolondo McClain, Alabama
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 7, 2009 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
I just thought of something
People are saying that Suh will be a top 5 pick. EVEN if we lose all 4 games left, we will NOT be in the top 5. So..why not trade Morrison or Howard to try and get a top 5 pick, and get Suh?
by NFLanalyzerfromhome on Dec 7, 2009 7:24 PM PST up reply actions
Trade
No one will take Morrison or Howard if they’re in a position to grab Suh.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Dec 7, 2009 9:24 PM PST up reply actions
haha..ya
or both, for that matter. is a LB (at any spot) a position of need for this team. I can’t really find a glaring need the same way I could last year. its not like we obviously needed some new tackles/receivers. It seems like for the most part we have at least marginally good players at just about every position…
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
Outside Linebacker
That’s a position of need unless Trevor Scott fills that in.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Dec 8, 2009 2:51 PM PST up reply actions
Captain K can stay
If we take either Suh or Gerald McCoy in 1st, Kirk would be much more effective with a bullish NT
NO MERCY!
by RAIDERSNOMERCY on Dec 7, 2009 6:10 PM PST up reply actions
McCoy is an ILB so Morrison would go back to OLB
Kirk is a good tackler but is often pushed out of play or removed by his own misreading of the action. At OLB he will have a territory with less player density and with his quickness should be fine. The MLB is the most challenging position on D; Kirk just isn’t fit for it at the NFL level. That doesn’t mean he’s not fit for the NFL, obviously, but not for the MLB position. t f
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 7, 2009 7:16 PM PST up reply actions
that's what I always said in the beginning
the raiders should run a 3-4. They have the personnel to do it.
It' s amazing that Nothing has been said...
negatively about our WRs in these threads since yesterday. Let’s hope they can continue to gain confidence and …keep us quiet.
The entire rushing game should improve once our runners realize that, indeed they hve to be more patient. Great observations about McFadden running like a chicken with his hed cut off. He is not, currently, the back we drafted but their is hope.
"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King
JLH
The only negative I can think of was Johnny Lee giving up on that route at the end of the game. The play was cleary not over just ran out of steam or gave up, hard to tell wich.
I live, breath and breed Silver and Black!
He is used to not being thrown too when he goes deep:
It was two sided, one side, him not running out the play and him being used to JaMarcus locking on the #1 or 2 option and NEVER making it to his 3rd option.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 7, 2009 9:00 AM PST up reply actions
also in his defense, having been a guy whose had his clock cleaned going deep over the middle like that several times this season
He still went hard for that one and drew that big penalty to set up our final score. Watkins almost came up with that big grab too. I have no bad words to say about these young receivers today. Today.
I doubt he'll do that again
I was pissed but when I saw his face I cracked up.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 7, 2009 7:22 PM PST up reply actions
Saint, you are absolutely correct
on your comments, Scott didn’t fill the gap on the Mendenhall run, and Routt is just awful, always has been. Every big play I watch I see #26 trailing behind the play. I said last Spring that I thought Scott was better fitted for linebacker, and fortunately the coaches finally figured it out.
It really ticks me off that Cable has not figured out that Bush is his best back, and should be in there pounding inside the tackles, it is ridiculous that McFadden is being given Bush’s runs.
I don't mind the 3 back system, but it's all wrong
1) Wear ’em down with Fargas up the middle early in the game
2) Get DMac out in space
3) In the second half, let Bush use his size/speed combo to break it open
"'Tis a bird I love, with its brooding note, And the trembling throb in its mottled throat; There's a human look in its swelling breast, And the gentle curve of its lowly crest; And I often stop with the fear I feel-- He runs so close to the rapid wheel." Nathaniel Parker Willis, "The Belfrey Pigeon"
By "all wrong" I meant "they're being used all wrong"
"'Tis a bird I love, with its brooding note, And the trembling throb in its mottled throat; There's a human look in its swelling breast, And the gentle curve of its lowly crest; And I often stop with the fear I feel-- He runs so close to the rapid wheel." Nathaniel Parker Willis, "The Belfrey Pigeon"
Absolutely. McFadden will stretch the field almost every play lined up in the right spot
and create those mismatches that give defenses headaches for which they have no remedies.
Those weaknesses are glaring. Scott did the things we knew he would do well in the new position; unfortunately, his weaknesses were rather amplified in it, too. He’ll have to get better, and fast.
The whole defense will need to learn to stay home and be patient a little more, as overpursuit has given way to the majority of the big plays, where often, at least one of our guys had a legitimate shot at stopping them, often for a loss.
Done with Routt, and fast losing patience with CJ. A shadow of the guy who helped our team shut down or at least make opposing receivers and pass games non-factors, he’s hardly a complement to Nnamdi anymore, but a target on third and longs, when they often go for the home run plays to boot.
I like Raybin’s plan to use the backs, but don’t take McFadden off the field all the time when you sub in Fargas or Bush. Line him up in the slot, motion him out of the backfield.
We’ll effectively remove one or two defenders every play if we use him, often as a decoy, to make them pay attention to Darren. We do it enough, and he’ll be wide open for huge plays regularly.
We can’t put it all on Bruce and the youth like that. Washington comes in next week with arguably the best D in the NFC East, maybe in the NFC, and they’re playing with passion.
By rights, they should’ve beaten the Saints yesterday, and will be hungry for a victory.
As for how we rebound from wins, well, that is a problem that is perhaps the biggest glaring weakness, and maybe the truest sign of what kind of a team we truly have at this juncture. I was surprised it wasn’t mentioned in this post, but then again, it’s almost as tiresome as our recognition of McFadden trying to run up the backs of the tackles, not off them.
All key points to our victory; no one can say we’re not fired up for it at this point.
Missed on the biggest issues!
“We’ll effectively remove one or two defenders every play if we use him, often as a decoy, to make them pay attention to Darren. We do it enough, and he’ll be wide open for huge plays regularly.” brhynno
They have been using McFadden as a decoy as you mentioned!
In response to the issue of running back patience in the zone blocking scheme, yes patience is important, but the holes that open up also close quickly, McFadden’s speed allows him to get through the hole and break a big run instead of just 10. As you know, after losing Terrell Davis, Denver had a good running game but never a championship caliber running game. What made Davis unique was his speed along with all the other attributes like vision and strength.
With regards to the Raider’s specific running game, I’ve seen games where the line doesn’t block well making necessary a bruiser like Fargas or Bush, but when they are blocking well and opening holes, McFadden has shown that he can be more than just an outside runner. That doesn’t diminish the role of Bush and Fargas. With three running backs, the Raiders can change their game plan week by week depending on their opponent. I also hear about the complexity of having three running backs, but two usually get most of the work depending on the game plan.
I think if we really dissect the Raider’s use of running backs, we would see that they are doing a great job running the ball effectively. As long as the quarterback and receivers help buy playing catch and forcing the defense not to key in on the run, there is plenty of opportunity to run well with what they have.
The next question the Raiders need to answer is NOT what to do with Rout, or Scott, but what to do with JLH and DHB. It took injury to get DHB off the field and he will probably get his spot back when he gets better. But with JLH’s success, fans will be justified for demanding that JLH stay in the starting lineup. So far, this hasn’t been a big issue because JLH was injured right at the start of the season and now DHB is injured, but there will come a time when both are available and JLH will have a good resume to support his case for the starting spot.
Right now we have Schilens, Murphy, JLH, and Watkins. Putting DHB back in leaves Watkins as the odd man out. Even then we still have the problem of four receivers Schilens, Murphy, JLH, and DHB, for three regular receiver spots. So far, Watkins, Murphy, and JLH have been in and out of games while Schilens and DHB have stayed in for the most part. Eventually we will have to trade or release one of these receivers. We can’t keep them all.
Stay tuned. Redskins next week.
This is true, but Murphy and Schilens are the only two that are sure starters
Who’s the third, hands down. We’ll have to see what develops. I’d say Higgins for now; I hope he can stay healthy taking shots like that. Starting DHB ahead of other guys has been the wrong thing to do. He wasn’t the best option at the time. He’ll be great down the road, but he’s far from there.
I’ve seen Darren out there; I’m just saying we should be patient with the approach. It’s also easy for us to criticize the playbook, considering how the offense hasn’t executed anything before yesterday. I just have very high standards for the defense, and hope the Raider’’s standards for a defensive line and corners doesn’t go south as well.
Running against Redskins will be a challenge. Their defense did some things no other team has been able to do yesterday, and held the powerful NO offense and Drew in check for most of the first half. They’ll be hungry for this one.
Hard for me to say what personnel decisions have what priority, but I want two shutdown corners if we’re gonna have two guys playing man to man out there all the time. Routt can’t cover man to man, and Chris Johnson makes some great plays but gives up as many bad ones, so that stands out to me. The offensive issues have been to myriad to focus on one aspect, and they’ve only actually showed up this once. I think the calls, Jamarcus, and some growing pains were all to blame. You’re definitely right on about the run game. That has been the only solid piece. It’s funny because I’ve kinda bought in to people complaining we don’t use Bush enough, and others saying McFadden not enough, or not the right way, when in reality, there are only so many carries to be had, and we can’t forget we were constantly in third and longs, committing drive killing penatlies… It’s defnitely not as easy as we often crack it up to be.
Sounds good, let's try it Sunday
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 7, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
Harrison
maybe it’s unfair to our LBs to compare but when you look at Harrison stay in his lane with confidence and discipline, you can tell that their defence wasn’t going to give up big running plays or be fooled by trickerie. However, you have to give Cable some props with the play calling. He stuck to the run and Mr Raider, aka baby huggiebear Fargas took it to them. We ran the ball and picking up 4-5 yards against them the whole game created a 4th qtr, 3rd and 1, double tight end formation, play action that Bruce sold as well as Gannon pass to Murphy. What’s clear is that we’re a different team when we run the ball straight up the middle.
It takes discipline for us to win the next game
If we dwell on the stuff that happened yesterday and forget about NOW then this game is a loss. Darren McFadden I don’t know what the problem is I think and I have seen this alot is that he hit the wrong hole. On one play the TE blocked out the DE and the T blocked the DT so the C gap was all open which could have been 20 yards at least but instead he hots the B gap where the T drove the DT and he was able to make the play this is what I saw he needs to get it together injuries don’t count anymore. Like i said we need discipline to win the next game and Possibly POSSIBLY Be 8-8 when this is over I don’t know if we can make the playoffs as an 8-8 team but that’s that. Now excuse me as I go watch the highlights again.
Wake me up if we win
Relax on the man to man D!!
Marshal needs to be allowed to control the D, the Lombardi man to man defense is a relic for a reason! Man defense can be picked apart easily, look at the Dallas game.
Ward TD during zone blitz!
When the team can’t score, the defense needs to play conservative, that often mean man-to-man with safety help.
The offense needs to show that they can score more so the defense can get more aggressive with zone blitzs and other different types of pressures.
I tend to trust John Marshall’s knowledge about defense.
lockdown corners, with just a little qb pressure
can man up with the best of them in the red zone. Man is the answer for the wildcat, frog, hog or any other variation of this formation if executed by each eleven men, but , there is a time and place.
I believe it’s best reserved for the short fields. at least 30 yard line in; mostly red zone. I’m all for zone blitzing, but some plays, we can still man up in coverage just blitzing another guy in addition to the front four, like we did with Scott at the elephant position. it proved to be effective in the max protect full back to pick up the blitz picked up Howard blitzing from the outside, Scott came in unabated, and we know what happens when he gets a straight shot! How’d that grass taste, Big Ben (Is it me, or is he looking more and more like Will Ferrell?)
GO RAIDERS! I’ve enjoyed the discussion this week, every one. It’s pretty cool to see our highlghts all over the sports shows and news programs too. This team is better than we often give credit for, and it’s good to have the W, the real evidence, but all the other great things we had in this game to bolster our faith in this team.
I hope Jamarcus even gets his head out of his ass and works hard for a job in the spring.
Then gets waived or traded, in the non-capped year. I wish him luck; maybe he’ll be a great player for some team. It just won’t be with the Raiders.
Hey Jamarcus: P90X bro. Ultimate fight or some shit. You need to learn hard work. It’s the only thing missing from your game: the wisdom to know what you need to do to be great at this level and the willingness to put forth the effort essential.
Grad's like Gannon?
Did anyone else see the sidearm throws? Hear about Grad’s telling a lineman to stop watching the scoreboard and get into the game? This guy reminds me so much of Gannon it’s unreal. IF he can continue his play and IF he can keep this offense focused, he should be the number one QB and Russell should be dropped on the curb in front of McDonalds.
Also McFadden should be number 3. We don’t need a “Slash”. We need a bruiser, ie: Bush.
I loved that
Grad adjusted his throwing form to fit the circumstances.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 7, 2009 7:48 PM PST up reply actions
Dolphins Fan here
I know a thing or 2 about changing starting QBs..
I’m glad to see Bruce with a big W and hope to see him get better. Congrats Raiders fans.
You guys are tough and have the toughest schedule in the NFL this year
I enjoy watching the Dolphins play, win or lose.
Son-of-Blanda
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 7, 2009 9:57 PM PST up reply actions
am i the only one
who see’s that cable calls short routes and passes to rb’s with a lot of playaction for grad., but for russell every play is all deep routes with no rb’s to pick up extra rusher. why won’t he call those for russell
grad
benefits from a run game that was clearly lacking when Russ was in there, perhaps because Fargas was out injured. the run game coupled with grad ability to sell play action opens up the field a lot. Secondly, Russ does not seem to go through his progressions as well. If the play is meant to go deep, Russ will go deep no matter what and not look off the FS. Grad on the other hand, looks deep, doesn’t like what he sees, quickly goes through his second, third options without wasting time. Last point, DHB did not suit up, hence, less long ball plays were called.
by raiders4liffe on Dec 8, 2009 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe
this is because the plays he has been calling for Grad are not the “short” version of the playbook they had been using for Russell? Maybe they require more reads at various levels?? Who knows for sure.
by BleedssilverandBlack on Dec 8, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
you have to pick up some first downs.
The offense needs to get the defense into a rhythm for those plays to work. With Russel, there were too many 3-and-outs, so there was never an opportunity to establish that. On top of being a more accurate passer and being able to read the defense better, grad is able to hide some of the offensive line’s weakness with some serious escapability.
Now, if we can finish some drives in the first 3 quarters, this team can be pretty good.
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