Coles to Bengals... Crabtree now to Raiders?

by DarksideJU08 on Mar 4, 2009 2:06 PM PST Comment 39 comments

I don't know if this means that the Raiders will get Crabtree but we are definetly a contender..

I tried posting this link on the transactions thread but it didn't work so i just put it on this new fan post so that you could read it.

Do you guys think that now the Raiders will get Crabtree or will we take a different route in this years draft?

What are your thoughts on Coles going to Cincy and would there be any obstacle in getting Crabtree now?

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If Crabtree is

there at #7, and the chances are ever more likely now, then the Raiders will take him. There just aren’t anymore impact FA wide receivers out there now.

Your team is your child...You love it no matter what.

by TheRaiderWay on Mar 4, 2009 2:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I think that Al is sticking to his guns:

He is committed to his current core of young players and he will build through the draft and then add pieces like Woodson, Rice and Romo when they are a couple of vets away.

But when they start scheming us the way these guys did, and we weren't particularly ready for it, anything can happen."

by saint on Mar 4, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

There may be one now since Torry Holt has requested his release from the Rams, but there’s a better chance that we take Crabtree than sign Holt.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Mar 4, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's almost a guarantee at this point

that he’ll be available and I hope and pray Davis passes on him for Monroe or J. Smith.

With the drafting of Manu and Parker and the signing of Oberto, the International Basketball era began in San Antonio. showing that all of the world's people can, in fact, come together in peace and harmony. After all, every nationality loves to kick the Hornets' asses.

by KA1Z3R on Mar 4, 2009 5:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

KC?

Would you think the chiefs would want to get Crabtree possibly. maybe Todd Haley wants a Cassel, Bowe, Crabtree trio like he had in AZ except it was Warner, Fitz, and Boldin.

by black and silver blood on Mar 4, 2009 7:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

unless detroit takes another reciever (hah)

I cant see any team before raiders taking crabtree. I would love a legitimate lineman but its so hard to pass on his talent. Crabtree + the possibility of johnnie lee and chaz schilens developing could be lethal in future….

my only fear is al passes on him because he’s not ‘james jett fast’

by tafkasam on Mar 4, 2009 10:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

my problem with Crabtree

is that drafting him leaves us with no quality OT in the second or anywhere else in the draft.

by KA1Z3R on Mar 5, 2009 4:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

its hard to say

because if he is a legitimate pro bowl talent… u cant pass on that. also for OT if crabtree is available that means jason smith and eugene monroe r almost 100% gone…. so do raiders take andre smith at 7?! His combine ethic is last thing i want in oakland.

Michael Oher? I love his story (I read the blindside….) also a stretch. Raiders could package michael bush +later round picks or future picks for a mid/late first round pick to get an OT (llike smith who will drop) but you run risk of a niner-like debacle w/ staley and end up giving patriots a top 10 pick .

by tafkasam on Mar 5, 2009 10:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Very good

reasoning for Crabtree being there at #7 means that Jason Smith and Monroe won’t.

Your team is your child...You love it no matter what.

by TheRaiderWay on Mar 5, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oher, Smith, J. Smith, monroe

all four are upgrades over anything we have now. OT is a wasteland in Oakland and people like pat willis, Khalif barnes, and Erik Pear would suddenly fix it. Barnes at most is a new starter on the right side. Pears is just some depth. We don’t know if Henderson can keep playing at that level all year. If injuries happen to him, I don’t trust Pears to man the left side. I doubt both Monroe and J. Smith will be gone. If so, I’m perfectly happy with Oher or Andre. Both are big guys form the SEC who play amazing in the run game and better in the pass game than anyone we have.

by KA1Z3R on Mar 5, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

oher is overrated

for a top 10 pick, alot of scouts project him better as a right tackle than left. He wont be gallery but he wont be crabtree…. andre smith?! After his combine… no way i take him top 7. If he falls to late first round trade up for him though!

by tafkasam on Mar 6, 2009 11:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

YES!

I always feel very vindicated and satisfied when people point out the problems with simply taking the “best player available”. Thanks Kaizer.

Spreading Brinkleyanity to the Raider Nation

by LiveAdam on Mar 5, 2009 1:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

no prob bob

nice to see another OT man.

Here’s my new ideal draft:

1st. Monroe/J. Smith/Oher/Andre Smith in that order of preference
2nd. Mack/Unger in order of preference
3rd. Jaspar Brinkley
4th. Sidbury
5th. n/a
6th. Jarrett Dillard if available, if not Ellison/Vaughn/Bruton
7th. Taylor, that DT from Michigan

by KA1Z3R on Mar 5, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty Good 4 Round Draft

I may reshuffle the order of preference on the OT to Monroe/Oher/J. Smith/A. Smith. I also think the Raiders may decide they can live with someone like Fowler or Preston at center so that they can target a WR in the 2nd round. 3rd and 4th rounds would be dream picks for me. None of the guys you mentioned for the 6th and 7th rounds will be there at those spots unfortunately, they’re all 2nd-tier players and will likely be gone by the 5th round.

Spreading Brinkleyanity to the Raider Nation

by LiveAdam on Mar 5, 2009 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I couldn't think of specific names

if you’ve got nay for a WR in the sixth and a DT in the seventh please tell me

by KA1Z3R on Mar 5, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

p.s.

love your signature

by KA1Z3R on Mar 5, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Couldn't Think of Names

The late rounds are too much of a crapshoot to get a real idea of whose going to be available anyway. I’d love it if Chip Vaughn and Terrance Taylor were there in the late rounds, I think they’d be productive on this team.

Glad you like the signature, it was your inspiration.

Spreading Brinkleyanity to the Raider Nation

by LiveAdam on Mar 5, 2009 4:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm goning to post a dream draft

on my draft thread momentarily.

Glad to be an inspiration

by KA1Z3R on Mar 5, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Pay attention to the top 3

here is my raiders draft strategy
1. get crabtree
2. get crabtree
3. get crabtree
4. if crabtree is gone, then maybe pick up monroe or jason smith, but only those 2 of the tackles. oher is way too inconsistent for the no. 7 pick, and andre smith will fall to the middle to late part of round one, so we could trade up for him.
5. brian orakpo.
best player available is exactly that. he is the best player available. god has blessed the raiders with coles signing with cincy and whosyourmomma signing with seattle. raji would be a dumb pick because no dt can succeed with the amount of time our offense gives them to rest. he isnt a bad player, but dt isnt the raiders need. the raiders need 2 things…
1.ball control and time of possession.
2. points.
the defense will be fine with jim marshall taking control. he had some great seahawk defenses. lets face it, the raiders were competitive in most of their games, but they either didnt score enough points or got tired on defense and gave up the lead (buffalo game, first san diego game). Cable is an expert in teaching o linemen. give him eugene monroe or erik pears or ray willis or joe shmoe, he is gonna get them to play right. mario henderson preseason looked like trash, and down the stretch he held mario williams and gaines adams to 0 sacks. but even with the protection jamarcus got, he would sit back there, waiting to long for his receivers to get open(new england game). chilens showed promise and higgins is a home run threat everytime he touches the ball. but lets face it, the raiders are missing that big time guy on the outside to make the tough catch and to move the chains. crabtree is a game breaker. catches with his hands better than most nfl receivers, he is unmatched in his run-after-the-catch ability, and he breaks arm tackles left and right. like the mcfadden pick, he would mask so many holes on our team that he is too much for everyone here to over think. tackle is a need, but cable will get them right. and im not knockin wr coach sanjay lal, but crabtree is bar none the best offensive player in this draft.

by posey440 on Mar 5, 2009 2:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

The Raiders were not dead last in sacks allowed, they were 9th worst with 39. However, they were dead last in passing offense and that wasn’t because of poor offensive line play.That was because the wide receivers the Raiders have run poor routes, do not separate well and most of all, do not command double coverage.

The Raiders are not done by a long shot with free agency. They will address their needs on both side of the line there where there is at least some talent remaining. Free agent wide receivers? There’s no one left who commands double coverage and the Raiders must significantly upgrade that position. If he is there at #7 Crabtree is the pick.

Your team is your child...You love it no matter what.

by TheRaiderWay on Mar 5, 2009 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

thank you theraiderway

dude i did feel alone in this debate, but not any more.

by posey440 on Mar 5, 2009 3:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Close...But Not Quite

they were dead last in passing offense and that wasn’t because of poor offensive line play

Ok, it wasn’t only because of poor offensive line play. Yes, the wide receiver corp, poor play calling, and a bunch of other factors were involved in the Raiders having a pretty atrocius passing game in 2008.

Where people like Kaizer and I disagree with you, however, is that picking Crabtree alone is the best remedy to the situation. The wide receivers can only be a weapon if Russell plays well, and the O-line needs to play well for Russell to play well. No one is suggesting that the Raiders don’t need help at WR, but if a player like Robiskie or Hicks is available in the 2nd round after having taken someone like Monroe in the first round, then I honestly believe that the combination of those two players makes the Raiders better than selecting Crabtree and relying on the current stable of Raiders tackles to get the job done.

At the end of the day, however, if Cable really does feel that Henderson and whoever is the RT can adequately protect Russell, then the Raiders probably will pick Crabtree if he’s available.

Spreading Brinkleyanity to the Raider Nation

by LiveAdam on Mar 5, 2009 4:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

that last part is exactly what im thinking

we just need adequate protection. with paul hackett, the new qb coach, getting jamarcus to make his reads and get the ball out faster, we dont need amazing o line play. with free agents, a pick or 2 later in the draft for tackle, hopefully a 2nd or 3rd round center, and cable teachin em up, i feel secure with where our o line is headed. but i dont trust javon walker and higgins is more of a quick slot player leaves a hole at the receiver opposite chilens. and what better to fill that hole than the best offensive prospect in the entire draft? i will admit that if crabtree isnt there, my next pick would be tackle, but i like jason smith more, even if he probably wont be there. oher is too inconsistent, and andre smith could fall to the end of round one where we could trade up for him.

by posey440 on Mar 5, 2009 4:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We're Not That Far Apart

I’m not of the opinion that we draft OL with the 7th pick no matter what. If Cable brings in guys through free agency or is confident that we can get the personnel we need later in the draft to shore up the O-line, then so be it. I’m simply hoping that the Raiders properly assess their needs and the best draft position to fill those needs. As it stands right now I feel that selecting Crabtree with the 7th pick is at the detriment of all the other team needs based on likely available talent in the other rounds. As always, it’s a fluid situation up until Draft Day.

Spreading Brinkleyanity to the Raider Nation

by LiveAdam on Mar 5, 2009 5:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

amazingly, i dont feel that there are as many holes we have to fill as there are positions we need to upgrade. the lone exception to that is strong safety. we dont have one on roster right now. branch and huff and eugene are more free safeties. sam lb is filled with ricky brown, who played decent, not great, but decent. We have 3 good des in richardson, burgess, and scott. Henderson, pears and maybe khalif barnes and maybe ray willis will round out the tackle spot, with cornell green being a strict back up. john wade at center could buy us some time to have cable develop a young guy. DT we have 3 good players. Kelly truely is the best kept secret in the nfl. he does deserve the money he got. if you watch him play by play he is a terror. warren and sands are huge and play well in spurts, but tire out because of how many plays they have to play per game. at guard, gallery has found his niche and carlisle played probably the best out of our o lineman. and at receiver, chilens is emerging and higgins is a great quick little slot. So if I was the raiders and i was drafting strictly for need, i would take a strong safety, but taking patrick chung or ellison with the 7th overall isnt getting alot of bang for your buck. crabtree is the best offensive player there, and he in my opinion stands out more at his position in this draft than monroe does. jason smith, monroe, oher, andre smith are all pretty even in ability, but michael crabtree is miles ahead of his position and 99 percent of the players out there in this draft. the only player who comes close to his dominance is curry. and if crabtree is there at no. 7, im gonna do back flips. i bet if you ask jamarcus what he wants with the no. 7 pick, he wouldnt even blink. sure better protection would be great, but not since college when he was throwing to dwayne bowe has he had a go to guy.

by posey440 on Mar 5, 2009 5:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Curry would be good here

who knows what we can do with him. I wouldn’t mind ANYONE in Oakland. Crabtree, Raji, Curry, Jason Smith, Monroe, etc. We just have to wait until draft day to fall in love with the player the Raiders drafted. I also like to mention, I am proud at Al Davis for grabbing Mcfadden last year. He is a beast. Great hands, character, and heart. So, Crabtree might also not be a bad pick up.

A New Spirit, A New Team, A New Coach, But Same Commitment.

by Rayder K on Mar 5, 2009 5:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

For sure dude

i hate to say it but curry is probably gone by the no. 7 pick. but crabtree is far and away the best offensive player and would give us a 3 headed monster that would rival aikman-irvin-smith for the cowboys.

by posey440 on Mar 5, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

There’s plenty of good WR talent later on. But OT really falls off after the first. In fact there’s really no one else I’d trust to guard my QB in the second.

by KA1Z3R on Mar 5, 2009 4:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

WR

there may be ok talent later on with heyward bey, maclin, and some big guys later on (britt, nicks, and robiskie), but nobody is even close to Crabtrees ability, there really is no knock on him, and you cant say speed since 40 times are for track athletes, put on the film and check out his game speed, as far as tackle goes sure there are a few good guys, and yes tackle drops off fast, but i see some good potential in henderson and there are plenty of good young tackles in free agency who we know are dependable, if crabtree isnt there at 7, i think we dump off and try to trade down, there may not be many LT’s available later but assuming we sign another young tackle in free agency i dont think we need to draft one, i think our draft should basically be crabtree 7, eric wood in round two and if ellison falls to us in round 3(probably wont) then take him, otherwise theres a good chance that “Starbury” will still be available in round 3 and oh dear god, this kid is ridiculous at rushing the passer, think a bigger, faster Freeney with the same spin move

by posey14 on Mar 5, 2009 5:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I knew when I wrote that

LiveAdam, that you would point that out. I too, also understand that the offensive line contributed to that ranking as well as the other factors you cite. However, the other 6 teams drafting ahead of the Raiders could all use offensive line help and it could be argued that anyone of them will take a tackle.

My point is, that if Crabtree is there, that could only mean that the truly worthy elite offensive tackles should have already been selected. So all this pre-draft pontificating really comes down to if Crabtree is really there at #7, it likely means that there isn’t a worthy tackle on the board to select instead of Crabtree. I don’t want Andre Smith and his out-of-shape body, work habits and attitude on the Raiders. Jason Smith and Eugene Monroe really shouldn’t be there at #7. In fact, despite KA1Z3R’s heavy campaigning for Monroe, I don’t see any scenario now that get’s him past Jacksonville. I ask any of you pro-offensive line guy’s to put up a mock where either J.Smith or Monroe and Crabtree are still on the board at #7.

Finally, no way, no how do the Raiders select Michael Oher instead of Crabtree. Again, and this is becoming sort of a mantra, if Crabtree is there #7 the Raiders take him.

Your team is your child...You love it no matter what.

by TheRaiderWay on Mar 6, 2009 3:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Addendum

I’m not saying that the Raiders will draft a wide receiver at #7. I’m saying if Crabtrree is there at #7, that is the Raiders pick. If Crabtree is gone, then there should be an elite tackle, defensive lineman or linebacker available for the Raiders to take. Then, they could select a WR in the 2nd round.

This is much like last year at this time, when many here, especially KA1Z3R, were pushing heavy for Dorsey or Gholston instead of McFadden. Everyone was saying that the Raiders have a great rushing attack and don’t need another running back. Well, there was no way the Raiders were going to let a talent like McFadden go by. It will be the same with Crabtree if he is there at #7.

Your team is your child...You love it no matter what.

by TheRaiderWay on Mar 6, 2009 3:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't even think we're going to draft an OT in the first

I’m just really hoping we do. I can almost guarantee you that the Raiders will select Michael Crabtree. I just hope they don’t. Hell I’ll take Andre Smith if I have to.

P.S. can I please get to more recs for my draft thread so it isn’t lost

by KA1Z3R on Mar 6, 2009 4:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I Agree

Regardless of which tackles are available at the 7th pick, it will be hard for the Raiders to pass on Crabtree if he’s available there. I think the only two tackles that would even give them pause would be Monroe and J. Smith, and the only other players that they may decide they really want being Curry, Raji, or Orakpo. Still, most, if not all of these guys could be gone before the Raiders pick, making the decision just that much easier.

If the Raiders do take Crabtree at 7 I envision them targeting a center in the 2nd round (all three of Mack/Unger/Wood are worthy of a 2nd round pick), and then defensive depth for the middle rounds (LB, DT, DE).

Spreading Brinkleyanity to the Raider Nation

by LiveAdam on Mar 6, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Scouts Inc., Todd Mcshay, Mel kiper jr and mike mayock all agree. It is all about crabtree on offense. and you tell me that the best player available will fall to the raiders at no. 7 and you guys DONT want to pick him? look i know al davis’ insanity has rubbed off on us a little, but even he wont screw this on up. Our defense will be improved more with the development of our offense and points on the board than a top dt or de. And as for o line, our head coach and o line coach are some of the best in the business. They resurrected robert gallery’s career at lg. that in itself is a miracle we can all agree. Like i said above, henderson was worse than kwame harris preaseason, and was a dominant force towards the end. Luck? or a stud o line coach? im going with the latter. the main reason i think the raiders restructered walkers contract is so al wont feel as bad when he is on ir or on the bench when crabtree and chilens emerge as our outside threats. add that with higgins in the slot, miller at tight end, dmac and jmarc in the back field, and the deterioration of ladanian tomlinson and the raiders will have the most explosive offense in the division. yeah even better than denver, who is shopping tony sheffler and was shopping jay cutler(i hate the broncos, but cutler is a baller and that move was stupid). crabtree would put us over the top on offense and move the chains and allow our defense to rest and show what they can do under a reasonable amount of plays.

by posey440 on Mar 5, 2009 3:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

crabtree or bail

basically i think the raiders options at 7 are super limited, i dont feel there is an OT or any other player who will be around at 7 worth drafting for us, we have had bad luck at tackle but it looks like we are finally starting to get some pieces in place, this is not the time to reach for someone at 7. if crabtree isnt there at 7 we will probably know by about pick 5, in which case we need to get on the phones and get out of the top 10, ideally we would be able to position ourselves somewhere in the first round to get heyward bay, i know he is 4 on most peoples lists but he should be 2, other than crabtree, heyward bay is the most naturally gifted WR in the draft, he is bigger and faster than both harvin and macklin and didnt have the same explosive offense that either of those two did. his one knock is dropping passes but you can teach that, you cant teach speed and playmaker ability. harvin isnt even a legit WR and macklin is good but not quite 7 overall good. so if crabs isnt there we need to get out of there too

by posey14 on Mar 5, 2009 5:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Don't Tell Me

You think we should grab Heywerd-Bey with the 7th pick. I hope I read the last part of the paragraph wrong.

A New Spirit, A New Team, A New Coach, But Same Commitment.

by Rayder K on Mar 5, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

he meant get heward bey after we traded down if we were to trade down.

by posey440 on Mar 5, 2009 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i think cable is doing th right thing adding depth 2 the line… henderson will do good…. i dont trust any of those ot with the 7th pick… with that being said CRABTREE all the way cuz we need wr like him…..

by PADRON3 on Mar 6, 2009 7:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs