Poll: McFadden, Ford, Janikowski or Kelly: Which Oakland Raider Was The Biggest Pro Bowl Snub
Let's see, you have the featured back with the most yards per touch in the AFC, Darren McFadden (Sorry Charlie, Jamal Charles is still a change of pace back). You also have the AFC scoring leader, Sebastian Janikowski, who just booted two 50 yard kicks in the same game. You have the Three Technique DT with the most sacks, Tommie Kelly, and a rookie, Jacoby Ford, who has returned three kickoffs to paydirt and has got to be the most exciting young return man in the game.
That would have made seven Pro-Bowlers from a 7-8 team. I guess there is your answer. But, who do you think got the biggest snub?
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Really?
Jamal Charle’s average sits at 6.4, McFadden’s average is 5.2. Even if you call JC a “Change of Pace” back, he’s only had 7 fewer attempts than McFadden (216 vs 223). Despite the fewer attempts, Jamal Charles holds 1,380 yards on the ground, McFadden with a few more carries has 1,157.
My point? They are both great running backs, but let the numbers back your words: McFadden doesn’t have the most yards per touch in the AFC.
Source:
by Random 255 on Dec 29, 2010 9:05 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
if DMC
wasnt injured for three games, three games that we really could have used him and he could have done great, then he would have at least 400 more yards on the season.
by S.D. Raider on Dec 29, 2010 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
attempts per game are a better measure of whi is an every down back
Charles’ numbers are fantastic, but, McFadden is an every down back. IMO, every down backs should go ahead of part timers.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 29, 2010 2:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Dude
You can try and spin this like a pottery wheel but McFadden just doesn’t compare to Charles. It is not even close. Charles had 7 count em 7 fewer touches than McFadden so to call him a part timer makes no sense. No sense at all. And to answer your question Janikowski is the biggest snub. For the best player on your team to not make it is hard to stomach.
man, oh man...
Mcfadden missed time due to injury, otherwise he was the best back in the League this year. 7 fewer carries in 3 more games of action actually translates to 58 fewer carries.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 29, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
And Charles had 4 total touchdowns rushing!
If that doesn’t scream part time runner with 1,380 yards. I wonder of that has EVER happened. Also, looking at explosive plays, McFadden had 4 runs over 40 yards and 14 runs over 20 yards( Both NFL Leading Stats). Charles had 2 over 40 and 9 over 20
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 29, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Correction LeSean McCoy had 5 over 40. CJ and McFadden were second with 4.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 29, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
AND Thomas Jones had more carries on his own team!!!
Thus, a part time back
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 29, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
Big reese is not worth bothering with
I’d rather take a drive with derrick thomas after a few drinks
by lchristmas on Dec 29, 2010 4:18 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Ouch...RIP DT
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 29, 2010 4:19 PM PST up reply actions
Classy.
This is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.
by GonzosDirtyTrailer on Dec 31, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
Keep saying it all you want
It doesn’t make it true.
Simply put, Jamaal Charles had a better year than McFadden, regardless if you think he’s a part time back or not.
by craig in calgary on Dec 29, 2010 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
He carried the ball nearly 20% less than D-Mac
He also only accounted for 7 TD’s to date. And, oh yeah, he isn’t even the featured back on his own team.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 29, 2010 6:09 PM PST up reply actions
Yet, he still put up big time numbers (aside from TDs).
His season warrants a Pro Bowl birth.
I eat nails for breakfast, tacks for snacks, and I sh*t nickel.
by SupremeChief on Dec 30, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
Reese, hoo boy are you wrong with this ... DMC is beautiful, and if the Chiefs didn't have JC I'd be drooling for DMC and praying for Pioli to sell his soul for the guy
McFadden just doesn’t compare to Charles
doesn’t compare? child, please! the stats are almost identical … DMC is the only other RB with over 5 yds/carry (5.2 to be precise) sp don’t even go there … both JC and DMC have had Pro Bowl worthy years
it really IS just that simple
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
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hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
dude, what side are you even on?
5.2 does not compare to 6.4..
by bamachief5558 on Dec 29, 2010 10:08 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
me? I'm like Superman ... on the side of Truth, Justice and the Logical Way
doesn’t compare? Boy, Stop! that’s utter nonsense … I’ll take a RB with a 5.2 ave any day and 15 times on Sunday … two runs = first down … you betcha! and so would Todd and Uncle Charlie …
ever hear of the “eye test” … beyond mere stats, my friend … if it LOOKS good it probably IS good … DMC passes the eye test, not even a question
and for the record: DMC is far more than twice as good as 2.7 ever was or could ever have hoped to be … the eye test rules, every time
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Man this crap doesn't even make sense.
Honestly. Who said anything about LJ except you? Charles doesn’t pass the eye test to you? And you’ll take a 5.2 ypc average over 6.4? Child, please! Go be a Raiders fan, homie.
by bamachief5558 on Dec 30, 2010 11:29 PM PST up reply actions
then take it in the context for which it's meant ... the thread, the post, the entire conversation
of course Charles passes the eye test, a blind man could see that much … nor did I say McFadden was BETTER than Charles … I stated a case that he has some DAMNED good stats and is Pro Bowl worthy, just as much as Charles is worthy of it
stop being so pig-head and one-sided and try to see things without your blinders on
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
OK, let's straighten this out.
Darren McFadden has had an impressive season. I’ve never doubted the kid, even in his first couple of years. As an SEC fan, I watched him at Arkansas, and I’ve always believed him to be a highly dangerous weapon for the Raiders even though he didn’t necessarily show it until this season.
5.2.. eye-popping. Pro Bowl worthy? Not this year. Not against the guys he’s going up against. Against his AFC brethren, he just doesn’t quite stack up. Not in 2010. MJD, Arian Foster, and Jamaal Charles all outshined him.
That’s why I don’t see how he can be considered a “snub”. Not everyone makes it, or it would be stupid. That is all.
by bamachief5558 on Dec 31, 2010 10:02 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Not compared
How can 200 more yards rushing mean so much to people? Charles had a GREAT year too and deserved to go but how does 200 yards more rushing in 3 more games (which somebody pointed out on a different post does effect pro bowl voting if somebody gets hurt, and i cant really deny that) is not as impressive to me as 3 more TDs in 3 less games and that does not even include the explosive plays that St. Martin mentioned. 6.4 yards per carry is amazing, but yards to win you games. TDs do.
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 30, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
Did you just
Child Please me?!?! I guess I can see where you are coming from with McFadden, my issue is when Saints is trying to diminish what Charles has done by calling him a specialty or part time back. It actually furthers the argument that Charles should go over McFadden if a “part time” player put up better, I’ll give you slightly, numbers than a every down back. Child Please, I am still laughing at that one Upamtn.
Is this feed the trolls week or what?
Trust No One
Studies show stress can kill you, but don't worry about it.
Per Touch, Not Per Carry !!!
Let’s make this so, THIS K.C.Fan can understand !! This Stat includes pass reception yards, rush yards, and if I not mistaken , it also includes pass yardage, u know, if he completed a pass. That’s why IT’s Called Per TOUCH . Do we understand now ????
IDK about his pass yardage or why that would/should count...
but combined recieving and rushing yards Charles comes out on top…
JC 1835 yards w/ 259 “touches” = 7.08 yards per touch
DMC 1664 yards w/ 270 “touches” = 6.16 yards per touch
No doubt that they are both bad asses, but come on, Charles deserves the spot…
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
The key is FEATURED BACK:
How many times does Charles get the ball inside the ten? How many times does he carry the ball in short yardage? Those carriers will effect one’s yardage.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 30, 2010 8:47 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Those affect YPC in a negative way
But they affect Total Yards in a positive way. 1st and goal from the 4 means 4 more yards for DMC that Charles would never get a chance at.
So throw YPC out and Charles is still ahead.
Cantaloupe? More like wontaloupe. Lazy ass melons.
Let's say you work in a job.
You work full time 40 hours and have X amount of productivity to show for it.
I work part time 30 hours and have Y amount of productivity.
if X < Y then You = unemployed
Cantaloupe? More like wontaloupe. Lazy ass melons.
Hahahah!
Now, that I can agree with. this has been a good discussion and I see, much more clearly, how Jamaal deserves this opportunity.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 30, 2010 10:37 PM PST up reply actions
*smile* there ya go, Saint ... he does, and yes, so does McFadden, I think
both are “worthy” of the honor … both have had terrific seasons … it’s a “numbers crunch” on how many slots they have to fill, all it is … not a “snub” … I guarantee you McFadden had a boatload of votes from both players AND coaches
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I voted for DMC,but......
now that i think about it.DMC was to inconsistent,to many games where he was held under 50 yd per game.Ford only had about 100-200 yds less on KR than the guy that got the nod,but he also had 5 fewer att.his yds per att where a few ponts lower,but he had 3 for TD and all of them where longer than the other guys longest.the other guy did also return punts,but then again he was’nt playing WR the whole game either
"You don't understand the power of the Dark side"
Darth Raider
I said Ford.
He has been the most electric return man all season and his contributions on offense as well can’t be ignored. While I think DMAC deserved recognition I am not upset about Charles getting in since he played in every game, led the league in yards per carry and his team won the AFC West. I am pretty sure if DMAC played in every game and we won the division him getting in would be a no-brainer. I am glad Sebass didn’t get in. He makes a fucking 60 yarder that ends up being meaningless last week in a muddy field but can’t kick a 38 yarder on turf in 73 degrees. I will not forgive him for that until he clinches a playoff spot for us or wins a playoff game with his leg. Also for a guy with such a big leg, he should be booming every kick into the endzone every time.
Trust No One
Studies show stress can kill you, but don't worry about it.
I understand why ford didn't get in.
Maybe as a return man, he should have, but he was a late starter, and didn’t get as much opportunities as others in the nfl.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
formerly patriotguy2 ;)
Hahahahaha
Change of pace back.
Nice way to Cherry pick stats to fit your hypothosis.
If you want to argue that McFadden is more deserving than MJD, Jamaal or Foster, go ahead, but don’t lie and say he has a bigger YPC than Jamaal, because it simply isn’t true.
Truth be told, Darren had a nice year, just not a pro-bowl year.
by craig in calgary on Dec 29, 2010 12:13 PM PST reply actions
no charles had more ypc
but darren had the most ypg and in most minds can also be used in the passing game to more effect.
i however think that marcell reece was snubbed. he basically had more all purpose yards than some halfbacks in the league…
by S.D. Raider on Dec 29, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
Similar roles in the passing game too.
Jamaal 43 rec, 455 yards 3 recieving TDs
Darren 47 rec 507 yards 3 recieving TD’s
I might argue McFadden > MJD.
by craig in calgary on Dec 29, 2010 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
Yet two more games played
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 29, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
WHO CARES
about how many games played. You are going to snub every pro-bowler just because they played every game? lol Sorry, Brady…you aren’t allowed to be on the Pro-Bowl team. Clearly, Campbell would have a better year if played every game therefore he is in.
Jamaal Charles...Enough said.
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146-94
by Chiefsfan85 on Dec 30, 2010 12:14 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not saying that. I am however saying that
McFadden is a featured back and Charles is more of a change of pace back who had a great year, but there are other every down backs that deserved it more.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 30, 2010 8:49 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
LOL
the “change of pace” back is 2nd in rushing yards, 1st in ypc…clearly undeserving.
Jamaal Charles...Enough said.
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146-94
by Chiefsfan85 on Dec 30, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
This argument is baffling to me.
If a “change of pace” back can outrush a “featured” back in overall yardage wouldn’t that make his season even more impressive? And as far as this “But McFadden was injured for 3(you said two but others are saying 3) games”(in fact he was only out for 2 games), Charles is still averaging more yards/game then McFadden. McFadden had a great year but unfortunately so did alot of RBs in the AFC. Personally I would’ve picked DMC over MJD but oh well.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Dec 30, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
He had a Great year too
He had a Pro-bowl year, thats stupid to say that he did not have a pro-bowl year it was just their were 3 other guys that also had pro-bowl years. He deserved to go and so did the players that got there.
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 30, 2010 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
totally agree :-)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Where in the World is Kelly?
What a shame…numerically you could argue against the pro bowl starting role for Janikowski, McFadden, and Ford…but Tommy Kelly leads his position in sacks and has an absolute force on yet another year of solid pass rush. He’s just gotta be there, and alternate just isnt good enough. Maybe next year, Tommy.
Found myself unable to even vote for the Pro Bowl
Don’t think you belong in the conversation unless you make playoffs.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
I disagree partly on this.
The Pro Bowl is a bonafide popularity contest and the players with the best stats should be the first to get a shot at it such as Arian Foster who led the league in rushing. I think this should be the standard for all statistical leaders such as passing yards, tackles, total yards from scrimmage or sacks. However I agree playoffs teams should get representation after all the leaders were acknowledged.
Trust No One
Studies show stress can kill you, but don't worry about it.
Out of all those guys, I would say McFadden is most deserving. Only problem is that Chris Johnson (Tenn., not Oak) got snubbed too, and there’s no arguing that he had a better season then D-Mac.
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on Dec 29, 2010 2:55 PM PST reply actions
Plenty of arguing could be done on that point
we never retreat we always ATTACK!!!
by transparent58 on Dec 30, 2010 10:19 AM PST up reply actions
Biggest Snub is Janikowski
For me Janikowski is the biggest snub. The guy led all kickers in FGs made, had a ton of long FGs, plenty of touchbacks, and overall had the numbers to make him the AFC Pro Bowl K.
McFadden, Ford, and Kelly had great seasons, but the players selected in front of these guys had equally great or even better seasons and its hard to argue for our guys ahead of them. Objectively though its easy to see that Janikowski had a more impressive year than Cundiff and is therefore the biggest snub.
"You call it, I'll haul it." - Michael Bush
"When we play tough, and we play physical, and when we play the way we're supposed to play, can't nobody beat us." - Richard "SeaMonster" Seymour
"The guys who are fast enough to catch him aren't strong enough to bring him down." - Jack Del Rio on Darren McFadden
I also voted for Jano
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 29, 2010 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
The McFadden/Charles comparison might be the goofiest thing I've ever read.
It’s not like Charles just comes in on 3rd and long to run draws and inflate his average. He does all the same things your boy does, only better. Maybe if Mcfadden split some more carries he wouldn’t have missed those 3 games y’all are bitching about. Sorry your coaches can’t use their players as effectively?
But congrats on McFadden averaging over a yard less per carry on a pointless team while Charles chases down league records for the division champs.
Then again, according to Raider logic Oakland are the real AFC West champs because they’re 5-1 in the division, right?
See you Sunday.
by bamachief5558 on Dec 29, 2010 5:53 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Talk about Goofy:
McFadden was absolutely under-utilized this season. Partly because he was injured and also because the coaches tried to split his carries with Bush or forgot that we are a running team. Even with that being said Darren carried the ball, on average, 20 percent more than Jamaal.
I don’t think that a specialty back who doesn’t even have the most carries in his own backfield should make it over backs who have taken the yoke week in and week, scored touchdowns and still produced similar numbers. Hillis, Chris Johnson, McFadden. I know that it is a specialty argument and splitting hairs, but, it is my opinion.
McFadden has a very capable back-up, but that is exactly what he is. Michael Bush is his back-up. McFadden carries the yolk.
I applaud Charles. I was high on him coming into the draft out of Texas and he is s special player, for sure, But, you have to admit that Darren McFadden is a more complete back.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Dec 29, 2010 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
no I don't ... I think both are about as equal as it gets, and the full stats bear that out
you have to admit that Darren McFadden is a more complete back
understand that Charles isn’t a “specialty” back, he’s one of two featured backs – there’s a difference, subtle perhaps but it’s there … TJ (generally) starts and bangs away for a couple of series of downs or drives, then JC comes in and pretty much wreaks havoc
however, if you insist on thinking of Charles as a “backup” then he’s STILL Pro Bowl worthy … a backup with nearly 1400 yds rushing (about 50 off Chris Johnson’s league-leading total), nearly the same number of rushes AND receptions as DMC, about the same number of TDs, and OVER a yard per attempt MORE on average … backup, starter, team player, guy off the street … by any measure Charles is AS Pro Bowl worthy as DMC (note: in my mind, they BOTH are)
Darren Mcfadden – rush yards1157, rush td’s 7, receiving yards 507, receiving td’s 3 with a 5.2 ypc average
Jamaal Charles – rush yards1380, rush td’s 4, receiving yards 455, receiving td’s 3 and a 6.4 ypc average (and he did all of this with only 216 total carries)
H/T – Devyn
Saint, go read some of the comments here by Devyn and MAK
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
no, i don't have to admit that
Because I don’t believe it to be true. What is more complete about him? Jamaal can run inside, outside, around and through defenders, catch passes out of the backfield or split out wide. Charles isn’t just doing this this year, by the way. He averages over 6 ypc for his career.
And how can you keep calling him a “specialty” back? What is his specialty? Being completely ridiculous and able to do pretty much everything you need a running back to do? You don’t make sense.
You people call him a “backup”, when in reality he barely trails TJ in carries. They clearly split the load.
The point is, the sample size of touches this season is nearly identical, yet Charles did more with it. ACTUALLY, more with a bit less. That is what people with a clue refer to as a better season.
So basically, just because a back gets a few more carries, regardless or whether his stats were better, then that qualifies him for the pro bowl over the superior player? By your logic, Thomas Jones should have made it over Charles. I know that you Raiders fans are used to living in whacky backwards Al Davis land.. but in case you haven’t pulled your head out of your “black hole” and noticed, split carries is the way the league is going. Not “featured” backs that get 30 carries a game.
I know you guys are desperate for relevance, but c’mon man. C’mon.
by bamachief5558 on Dec 29, 2010 10:33 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
it isn't about "relevance" it's about "respect" ... as a Chiefs fan you of all people should understand what the deal on that is
we whine and moan and bitch about that one daily … I don’t buy it for a minute, of course, and I think it’s something that needs to be EARNED, and when it IS earned it IS given (just takes some time, sometimes) … that said, DMC has earned my respect, all the way
the fact that he wasn’t Pro Bowl selection doesn’t diminish the fact that he’s had a VERY good year in 2010, nor the fact that he has a ton of talent and is very versatile (just like Charles) … so pull your own head out of your own “red hole” and understand that there’s more to it than sheer numbers and a roster spot for a meaningless game in Hawaii
I know you’re classy, you’re a Chiefs fan, so let’s show it a bit more, ok? … come on, man
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Dammit.
I don’t whine or bitch about the Chiefs not getting respect. We’re a small market team, and an understated franchise. When we earn the attention, we will get it.
I also never said McFadden wasn’t having an impressive season, or that he isn’t a very talented running back. You’re pulling words and intentions out of thin air, my friend.
I just think the argument being made by Raiders fans on this topic is completely, mind-numbingly ridiculous.
by bamachief5558 on Dec 30, 2010 11:07 PM PST up reply actions
you're welcome to your opinion, it's different from mine and that's ok
my opinion is as valid as yours, though … the Raider fans’ opinions are valid
no big deal
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
C'mon Man
Saying he did more with less is an opinion not a fact. In your opinion because Charles had an impressive yards per carry, and in my opinion scoring more touchdowns playing in 3 less games tells me that Mcfadden did more. Its just an opinion man. I get you getting mad at Charles being called a back up when he is a split featured back, and yes teams want to have 2 good backs now but most have a 1 featured back and 1 back up/goal line back not split featured backs. To then blab disrespectful none sense like that last paragraph in that is just ridiculous. That last paragraph is what deserves the C’mon Man, since you let your anger distort the obvious fact that nobody is saying strictly more carries gets anybody in to the probowl and nobody is blabbing about TJ going. Having less carries than somebody else on your team is rare for a probowl player. C’mon Man, and Chiefs fans were just as desperate for relevance before getting to the playoffs this year so get your head out of the clouds.
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 30, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
It's not really just my opinion.
In a league that has expanded from 12 to 14 to 16 games relatively recently, and possibly soon to 18 games, experts will tell you that totals are far from the best way to guage a player’s true value statistically. The more accurate measure is, you guessed it, averages.
6.4 to 5.2.. look at that again. I don’t know how well you know football stats, but that is a pretty significant disparity. Anyone but a Raiders fan would look at these numbers next to a nearly identical number of touches and tell you who did more with their chances. Again, this is not just my opinion. It’s the opinions of statisticians, analysts, most fans, and obviously everyone who decides on the Pro Bowl.
I am not saying that touchdowns are not important. Obviously, you win games with those things. But the truth is that NEITHER player accumulated very many touchdowns. 7-4 (10-7, actually) is not that huge, especially considering Bowe grabbed 15 for us. Yeah, that’s gonna put a little dent in Charles’s TD numbers.
The statement about TJ was to make a point. There are folks here claiming that backs who “carry the load” for their team should be considered for the Pro Bowl over backs “like Charles”. According to this logic, TJ should be the man people are looking at in KC. Nevermind his 3.9 ypc average.
Anger? No. Frustration? A little bit. But it’s easy to get frustrated when people just don’t get the point.
Just as desperate for relevance? Not quite. 6 wins, if I’m not mistaken, is a milestone for the Raiders over the past decade. The Chiefs made the playoffs in ’06. Asses kicked?… yes…
Tuck rule? Legit.
by bamachief5558 on Dec 30, 2010 11:24 PM PST up reply actions
I have no doubt that MAK is very enlightened when it comes to the importance of stats
6.4 to 5.2.. look at that again. I don’t know how well you know football stats, but that is a pretty significant disparity.
and yes, it is just over a full yard difference, but if that’s your only stat, then Chris Johnson and/or MJD, one or both, don’t “deserve” to go to the Pro Bowl … right?
maybe Charles and DMC are the two best in the league … by THAT measure alone, they are … so both are worthy of going and we should ALL go the Jags site or the Texans site and tell them so
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
OK
I realize the bulk of the arguments being made have centered around YPC, but only because it is the major glaring difference. Other than that, they have been pretty consistent with eachother, so what else do you look out? 10 TDs to 7? That’s petty. A 1.2 ypc difference is not.
I’ll be fair and honest and say McFadden was more impressive than MJD this season. In my opinion. But not better than Chris Johnson, who was underrated based on expectations, so still only as high as 4th best in the AFC. Maybe if the Chiefs go to the Super Bowl McFadden will get his shot and Raiders fans will be happy.
Better than Foster though? Please. That’s a joke, right?
by bamachief5558 on Dec 31, 2010 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
I don't really understand your last 2 "sentences"
If youre going to come on here and be an antagonistic dick could you at least be clear?
Are you saying the “tuck rule” is legit? How many Super Bowls has your irrelevant franchise been to in your lifetime? (Assuming you know who he is) In your daddy’s lifetime?
For the record I think the Pro Bowl selections are correct. DMC’s missed games cost him a spot, as they should have.
by lchristmas on Dec 31, 2010 10:12 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Yes, the tuck rule is legit.
Completely and totally. It’s a weird rule, but it was called correctly on the field. I just know y’all like to whine about it, so I thought I’d throw it out there.
My Chiefs haven’t made a Super Bowl appearance during my lifetime, but neither have your Raiders, so what is your point?
by bamachief5558 on Dec 31, 2010 10:17 AM PST up reply actions
If you're implying that I'm only 7 years old
I have to admit that’s pretty funny. Although reading it a little more closely you are saying that YOU are seven years old. Put yer thinkin cap on and do some cipherin, Cletus.
Still, not bad for a 7 year old from Alabama. Are you guys still in the top 49 in education or did Arkansas finally make the big move?
by lchristmas on Dec 31, 2010 10:26 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Right, right..
John Gruden and the Bucs, my mistake. Although to be honest I wouldn’t want to remember getting blown out by the most overrated head coach in history if I were a Raiders fan.
And that would be Mississipi that’s ranked 50th in most categories. Nice job butchering your reference, though. You do realize that Alabama is home to rocket scientists? Yep, conservative, racist rocket scientists. Home sweet home.
Even still, I kinda owned myself with that brain fart so I’ll give you the W. ’Grats, big dog.
by bamachief5558 on Dec 31, 2010 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
This has got to end
On the surface DMC and JC are almost identical running backs in my eyes in terms of talent and skill. They both have blazing speed, a good ypc, and can catch the ball with the best of them. Can we not all not nitpick and agree that this is a fairly valid statement?
Now the claim that Charles is a change of pace or specialty back is as false as someone saying the same about DMC. JC led the entire league in yards per carry with 7 less then Mcfadden, and as we know did more with his carries.
So if you want to go that route… Michael Bush had 7 rushing TD’s this year, tied with DMC. Following your terms that would make Mcfadden a specialty back seeing as even you said it yourself DMC led the league in runs that were atleast 20 and 30 yards long for td’s.
Do you see the picture I’m painting here?
Darren McFadden/Jamaal Charles fore both of there teams were primarily used in the vast majority of rushes except for 3rd/4th and short and goal line situations. Michael Bush/Thomas Jones were used for… you guessed it, short yardage situations. Both 2 back systems were great, and is a big reason why both of us are considered the premier running teams in the NFL.
So you want to use Thomas Jones having more carries then him as a disqualification, that’s cherry picking. Because I could just say the same about DMC, why is a “premier” running back tied in TD’s with a 2nd string RB? and that 2nd string RB has about 90 less total carries.
I hate how you guys force me to argue against my boy DMC here, but it has to be said. DMC is a pro bowl worthy RB, there were just 3 this year better then him.
If this makes you feel any better… I do think McFadden is more talented, and will have the much better career.
Resident Smartass.
ha! you beat me to it ... was just quoting you (above) ... how funny :-)
you rock, my friend!
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
one seasons worth by my calculations
and not really an issue just yet.
Make no mistake, I liked Charles coming out of Texas…just liked McFadden more…
we never retreat we always ATTACK!!!
by transparent58 on Dec 30, 2010 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
McFadden's a bigger, faster, and more physical back
both guys can take it to the house on any play, I would just put McFadden as more likely because he can run over LBs then out run DBs…
we never retreat we always ATTACK!!!
by transparent58 on Dec 30, 2010 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
McFadden ran a 4.33 at the combine. Charles a 4.36.
McFadden does not look like he’s moving as fast because he is bigger.
Jacoby Ford ran a 4.28 and the RAIDERS’ Chris Johnson supposedly ran a 4.18 at his Pro Day in college.
To sum up: your mockery fails.
they're ALL fast ... end of story
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
They are not "essencially" the same back
Darren plays more snaps than Charles. He’s involved more. He hardly gets off the field. And read carefully guys. SNAPS! Not just touches! I would like to see how Jamaals averages look when he gets more SNAPS. Snaps equals responsibility. Darren is is in the same tier of responsibility for his team as Foster is for Houston. (Jackson for StL, Peterson for MIN, Johnson for TEN are top tier). Then there is this wierd tier of equal responsibility. Its in SD with Tolbert and Matthews, in NY with LT and Greene, and in KC with Charles and Jones. Its just that KC runs a whole lot more, and the Charles/Jones dou is a lot more talented.
Darren is THE guy in Oakland at his position. He’s not the “some of the time” guy like Charles in KC.
In my opinion you can’t compare the two. 2 different situations. The only way we can, is if Jones leaves, and let Charles take almost all the snaps at RB, and see if he can take the wear and tear of being an ALL DOWN back in a season.
*Charles is very deserving of being in the pro bowl. He was the best part time back in the league.
by mcastro831 on Jan 2, 2011 5:44 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
History has shown that players that mostly get snubbed for pro bowl selections are those players who are not on a team that is going to the play-offs or at least has a winning record. The only way these guys will go now is if some players in their positions get hurt or replaced because they will rather be ready for the play-offs instead which is smart.
Still no post-game story from the Colts game?
Gimme, gimme symphonies
Gimme more than the life I see
I voted Ford
I think DMC is deserving, and Kelly was much improved enough to consider the Pro-Bowl, but I think Ford is the most snubbed for the following reason: He simply has had the best year of anyone at his position (KR not WR, though his amazing catches at WR should count for him too). Look, the fact that you are all arguing about the Charles/DMC this should be enough to tell you DMC isn’t the clear cut best at his position. DMC had a great year, but as good a Charles, and Foster; though I would argue he had a better year than Jones Drew. Snub for the Pro-Bowl for DMC, yes in my opinion, however not as big of snub as Ford.
Kelly has the same thing. Was he the best at his position all year? Nope, not even close. Ngata and Wilfork ARE beasts, and Seymore had another great year! Is Kelly better than one of those 3? Not in my opinion.
Seabass is a no brainer to me. If you are a probowl kicker, you make the kicks that win games. Period. Say what you will about his 50+ yard kicks, but the one that takes him off my pro-bowl ballot was in the final seconds in Az when he cost the team a legit chance at the playoffs. Had he made that kick, the Raiders would have controlled their destiny up until last week. Sorry, that miss erases my pro-bowl vote just the same as it did the Raiders playoff chances.
And to Ford. As I already said he is simply the clear cut best at his position. Who the hell is this guy from Miami anyways???? Ford was by far the best KR in the NFL, and has spent more time in the end zone than the no name from south beach. Ford catches the ball as a WR too which more than makes up for that other guy’s punt return yardage. Ford is in my opinion the best KR and the steal of the 2010 NFL draft at the 4th round! I saw an article about redrafting the 2011 picks by production, and they had Ford as a top 10 pick! Hello!!!?! If he is a top 10 pick in productivity, why is he not in the pro-bowl????
THAT is why this guy is the biggest snub in the Pro-bowl, at any position.
I think Chief fans are as happy with Jamaal as we are Darren. We should both be oh so lucky to have these amazing talents. If there’s football next year, it’ll be the year of “The Battle In The AFC West” Both Kansas and Oakland have captured the AFC West once again.
"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." Vince Lombardi
I concur, good Sir!
a toast … to the successes and renewed rivalry!

Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
DMC was hands down the most explosive RB in the league this year
If you combine rushing and receiving 20+ plays he’s #1 in the NFL as a RB. Same goes for 40+ plays… #1. Only 3 WR’s had more big plays than him… DeSean Jackson, Mike Wallace, and Brandon Lloyd. Insane considering how much time he missed.
AFC West Assassins... Finally, no more Chargers
A little help for Señor Saint
Ok. When Saint states “part time back” to describe Jamaal, he isn’t comparing him to Darren. He’s mearly just describing his job within his own team. Its not only touches, but the amount of snaps he plays in total. He splits the snaps with Tomas Jones… Almost down the middle. So therefor, not an every down back.
And Darren, his job within his team he gets the majority of the snaps and the majority of touches FOR HIS TEAM in the back position.
And you can’t get revolved on just numbers in terms of totals. Its more of a percentages and average comparison.
You get the amount of touches each back gets and you divide that by the total amount of running plays for their respective teams. (Minus the running plays of Darrens missed games). That little formula gets you the percentage of their split responsibilities. And I guarantee you that Darrens percentage is higher. So therefore, Darren’s responsibilitie are greater ( in running plays to their respective team) that Jamaal. Jamaal splits his running responsibilities almost in half with Jones.
and the other fromula is getting the total amount of snaps played by each back and dividing it by the total amount of offensive plays for their teams (minus offensive plays in Darren’s missed games) When you do that, you get another percentage. Darren, without a doubt, is in more plays ( because not EVERY play is a running play) percentage wise for the Raiders than Jamaal is for the Chiefs.
Aaaaaallllll meaning…
That Darren is more important to the Raiders than Jamaal is to the Chiefs. He is more of an ALL DOWN back ( like I said, not EVERY play is a rushing play). Therefor making Darren a feature back for the Raiders in this league, because he is ABLE to be in almost ALL offensive snaps for his team. Is Jamaal able to? We don’t know, he wasn’t a feature back this year. He is, in fact, a change of pace back because he doesn’t take the majority of snaps at the back position for his team ( not just touches). And the question remains, if Jamaal is able to get the oppurtunity to become a feature back, Will he be able to keep up those averages?
Pheeww.
by mcastro831 on Jan 2, 2011 5:10 AM PST via mobile reply actions
to add...
Within our own team… Sebastion Janikowski is WAY more deserving to go to the Pro Bowl than Darren. He flat out got robbed.
by mcastro831 on Jan 2, 2011 5:17 AM PST via mobile reply actions

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