Campbell versus Gradkowski, My Final Verdict
by KA1Z3R on Dec 8, 2010 5:00 PM PST
in Roster Musings
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It's been a while since I last wrote, but I gotta put my final statement on this debate. I'll say right off the bat that I love Bruce Gradkowski and Jason Campbell equal, however I'm largely on the Campbell side of the fence here.
I won't do much of an intro here, but read ahead to see why Campbell is clearly the best option as the starter for the Raiders.
5 versus 1. This is the only stat to me that matters. All other stats are insignificant when held up to this stat. This stat is the number of wins for Campbell and the number of wins for Gradkowski respectively. Jason Campbell has 5 wins in 9 games or 5-3 (St. Louis=indecisive). That's a winning record people. Even Gradkowski last year only won 2 games. In 6 games, Bruce has 1 win, and even then I'm tempted say he only has 1/2 of a win.
That one win was against St. Louis back before they found out they could win games. Campbell started half of the game with Gradkowski coming in at the start of the second half. In that game, Campbell had went 8 for 15 for 87 yards and 1 INT. We were only down I believe by one possession. This was a game that Campbell probably could have won in the second half (second half featured better running game, and much better run defense). Nevertheless I will give the win to Gradkowski and keep it 5 to 1. After all, the same thing could be said of Campbell versus San Diego, though I don't believe Bruce would have won that game.
Campbell just flat out wins games. Well maybe our defense and running game are actually what wins games (and Ford's special teams), but Campbell doesn't lose games. Gradkowski, as much as I know I'm gonna take flak for this, loses games. How? He doesn't protect the football.
In 6 games and only 4 starts (one of those starts ended up only being like the first quarter versus San Diego), Gradkowski has 7 INT's. Meaning, he averages a little over 1 INT per game. Interestingly enough, the ONLY game he didn't throw an interception, was in that San Diego game in which he only attempted 7 passes and got pulled very early.
Meanwhile, in 9 games and 8 starts, Jason Campbell has only thrown 6 interceptions. That's 3 more games and 4 more starts with one less interception. Campbell is doing what JaMarcus Russell could never do, manage a game without throwing interceptions. Even Gradkowski can't do that.
In only one of his five wins has Campbell thrown an interception (against KC he threw 1). Now of course, Campbell has been far from perfect. Three losses in ugly performances with quarterback ratings of 69.7 back when Tennessee was amazing, 10.7 in what can be called one of the worst playcalling performances by Hue Jackson in Raiders history, and 26.2 against a very tough Pittsburgh team.
However, every quarterback no matter how good has bad games. Drew Brees against Cleveland and Arizona, Mark Sanchez just this last Monday versus New England, Peyton Manning through a good bit of the year, Jay Cutler versus Washington, etc. Campbell might not have so many if he wasn't constantly thinking that each throw might be his last. Granted you don't want your players getting too comfortable, but that's way too much stress in an already stressful game.
Now while Campbell will take more sacks due to some issues with reading pressure and not getting the ball out quick enough at times, he doesn't throw interceptions nearly as often as Gradkowski who takes less sacks. Jason Campbell gives Raiders fans something they haven't had since Rich Gannon, a quarterback who doesn't throw at least 1 interception per game.
Jason Campbell has played through a lot (poor receiver play, inconsistent O-Line play, slow starting running game versus Seattle and Kansas City notably, pressure of being benched, chemistry issues due to constant depth chart changing and benching, etc), but has produced a winning record and just might get Oakland possibly in the playoffs. Or at the very least, a 7-9 record (can't see us going 6-10).
The debate of Gradkowski versus Campbell was ended later than it ever should have been and only because Bruce was put on IR. Campbell is no doubt Oakland's best QB since Rich Gannon, and has eliminated the weakness of QB in Oakland finally. Raider nation, I present you your QB, Jason Campbell.
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Captain Conservative
I believe we would’ve had a shot at Pitt in the second half had Nnamdi played. Hines Ward and Mike Wallace were too much for the guys on the field that day.
The Autumn Wind is here. Time to set sail.
no way. Pittsburgh was beating us soundly. Even if Nnamdi played I doubt we win that one.
And conservative is winning us games so I’m all in favor of it.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
I'm not sure about how I feel on annointing Campbell starting qb going into next year (yet)
I think the last 4 games are going to be a strong indicator of what he may be capable of. He’s played much better as the unquestioned starter (as pointed out by other sources) while Gradkowski was injured. We will continue to see if Campbell can strive under playoff pressure, as we are in must win situations. During this span he’s going to have to show that he can win a game or two when the defense takes the run game away. We’re not always going to be able to run it 50+, and may have to come from behind to win at some point, let’s hope he has it in him to get it done.
We don't take kindly to folks that don't take kindly around here.
Just ... so ... tired ...
of the subject … cannot force self to ponder …
agreed...
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
There is simply no way that b and c are realistic options in your poll
What I wonder about (or more accurately, will wonder about when the season is over) is how many people here feel good about going into next year with jc as the unquestioned starter.
I think bruces time here is over and he won’t be back. Boller or some other veteran will be the backup and a developmental qb will be drafted. I see colin kap from nevada as a good possibility. Freakish athleticism, very inexperienced in the pro style game but an absolute cannon for an arm.
by lchristmas on Dec 8, 2010 6:30 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I say we keep JC and fix something that is broke
Go after a wideout with great hands. I know we love our track stars, but Wes Welker was a medium fast guy that went undrafted when he came into the league. I would just like to see someone step up and start making plays like Jacoby did, but not have to be so surprised about it. We picked JaMarcus when the Chiefs picked Bowe who just happened to be Russell’s teammate that was catching all those monster throws from JaMarcus in college. Little did the Raiders know that that ball would be so hard for our track stars to catch. Jamarcus was a better QB when Schilens wasn’t hurt. I hope he gets a TD or 2 this week. That would be cool.
The Autumn Wind is here. Time to set sail.
id like to draft WR
but to be perfectly honest this years FA class is rich in WR like seriously rich i mean were talking Vincent Jackson, Santonio Holmes, Braylon Edwards, Larry Fitzgerald, Plaxico Burres on and on… i mean even oline even DBs we can have a crazy FA class
Success is not measuredby what you accomplish, but by the opposition you have encountered, and the courage with which you have maintained the struggle against overwhelming odds...
-Orison Swett Marden
A FA WR with proven experience and without a learning curve is the way to go. But I need to look closer at the draft class
… plenty of time for that later.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"We had to get back to who we are, and that's physical and smash-mouth." - Robert Gallery 12/5/2010
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 8, 2010 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
me too
and i agree but i hope they go with the FA route over drafting a WR with our first pick though, i like jacoby but i dont like speedster rec. with questionable hands id like for us to get someone big with hands every sunday
Success is not measuredby what you accomplish, but by the opposition you have encountered, and the courage with which you have maintained the struggle against overwhelming odds...
-Orison Swett Marden
Yes we need a receiver that has leaned the game from someone other than Sonlay Lal
Larry Fitz would be my 1st choice with Plax and V.J. next
JUST DOMINATE BABY !!!
Chaz has similar upper body as Fitz.....
Chaz will dominate Jax. We’ll get Fitz next year though. Chaz furure HoF.
The RaiderLaker
Chaz has Fitz size with DHBs speed (but nobody has those hands but Fitz)
if (and I know it’s a huge if) he could ever stay healthy he could dominate and I would love to see it. Let’s hope that he has instant chemistry with Campbell. Last week they didn’t seem to be on the same page.
JUST DOMINATE BABY !!!
Scrath Edwards from that list. He drops too many passes. There is enough of that going around.
by TexasRaider20 on Dec 9, 2010 8:14 AM PST up reply actions
true that
but he catches the balls that are important
Success is not measuredby what you accomplish, but by the opposition you have encountered, and the courage with which you have maintained the struggle against overwhelming odds...
-Orison Swett Marden
i think JC is understanding our offense every game.. it seems he's getting better every week
but on the other hand, ol’ JaGrimace Russell was doin enough to get by. As for now jason will do, I learned my lesson with standing by with my qb…. at this point anything to help the team get better next year im up for.
But look at Mcnabb… he is struggling out there in DC and looking like JC was just a scapegoat for the failure of the team. I wouldnt mind if Jason get full reign under center next year but not at the expense of the future of the team.
side note for season tix holders…i tried reuping my season tix today so i can get the training camp invite but they couldnt promise me a full refund if there’s a lockout next year.
"There comes a point an a mans life, he has to step up… I dont care what kind of man you are!!! there come’s a point where he has to fight!!! He has to has that in ’em! He gotta have that in ’em… Lets go, LETS GO!!! FIGHT on 3… 1-2-3- FIGHT!!!! -Richard Seymour
Thanks, I was going to ask them the same thing about lockout refund
So, they CANNOT promise it??? WTF.
by Spirals galore on Dec 8, 2010 7:46 PM PST up reply actions
not yet at least...
i assume they eventually will but he couldnt say it for sure… not just yet… but he was like more then likely we get a refund.
"There comes a point an a mans life, he has to step up… I dont care what kind of man you are!!! there come’s a point where he has to fight!!! He has to has that in ’em! He gotta have that in ’em… Lets go, LETS GO!!! FIGHT on 3… 1-2-3- FIGHT!!!! -Richard Seymour
I want assurance it's only fair. The enticement of going to training camp (and verbally blogging with the team & org)
is a big incentive to buy early.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"We had to get back to who we are, and that's physical and smash-mouth." - Robert Gallery 12/5/2010
by Sons-of-Blanda on Dec 8, 2010 8:48 PM PST up reply actions
Totally Agree...
With about their records as starters for the Raiders and always said that Jason Campbell was a better QB. Everybidy was all about Bruce because he runs around and slings the ball and to lots of people that makes him a good QB. Hell Michael Vick was like that during his career in Atlanta but once you look pass that, he was not an accurate QB but at least had a cannon for an arm unlike what Bruce does not have. If you look at Bruce’s record as a starter his whole career versus Jason’s career, he still loses. But the biggest problem with Bruce is he is injury prone. The Raiders was not in a rush resigning him after last season but after the current injury he is done as a Raider and Jason will be the starter now and next year with Boller being the backup.
by Archangel25 on Dec 8, 2010 7:01 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Bruce
did not outplay JC this year. Not much of a debate. Bruce didn’t have it and couldn’t bring it. JC with a running game is the perfect QB with our current inconsistent Raiders, don’t try to be the show, don’t force it when we have the best kicking team, recover from any set backs, strike when they’are least expecting. SD game typifies that. Just go out and win. Steady 105.5 QB rating, what’s wrong with that? Bruce is no longer part of the solution; please do not be surprise if he’s not on the roster next year. His injuries makes him undependable. Package Murphy and Huff for a studd OL and draft pick, pick up one of those hotshot FA WR, draft a mid round QB (although I mentioned before that we’re horrible at developing QBs). We’re in business.
by raiders4liffe on Dec 9, 2010 8:31 AM PST up reply actions
Are We Done Yet !!!!!
Where you been dude ??? We pretty much squashed this debate after the Pit Game !!! And not because Gradz got hurt !! Don’t use that as an excuse, Cult followers. But I’ve already noticed that, some aren’t going to give Campbell the benefit of Doubt, no matter what he’s done, or may do !!! So just put this argument/debate, on the shelve until next season !! Save all that energy, or better yet, put it to some good use, and think POSITIVELY about the rest of the season !!!
hey dude, this was still a live debate during the Miami Dolphins game and the Pittsburgh game. That debate was only settled because Gradkowski got put on IR. You can bet he’d still be starting if he wasn’t injured and we would have lost that San Diego game.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
JC or Palmer
I still think we take a shot at getting palmer out of cincy. Cut bruce and let palmer and JC battle out for the starting job with the loser being cut in the preseason. let kyle keep his backup role, he is not a starter in this league. Not yet anyway
Noone understands the thoughts of an incarcerated man. the years I've lost, I'm climbing this ladder looking up at this kid whose boss. He's 1/2 my age I'm still getting 1/2 his wage, but I need this check though. So I hold back 1/2 my rage. there's poison in my chest, so I pour it all on the page.
by the world of oak on Dec 8, 2010 7:18 PM PST reply actions
Palmer is garbage
He would make a great backup QB for the Panthers. Plz don’t make that pitch. Have you seen him this season. Every game is so horrible you have to shut it off and can’t finish.
The Autumn Wind is here. Time to set sail.
correct
He’s coasting on his rep from that one good year he had before the dirty steelers snapped him in the playoffs – he’s awful
by lchristmas on Dec 8, 2010 8:42 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Palmer sucked with Ochocinco and TO as wideouts... How would he do with our WR's?
You see Campbell didnt have great receivers in Washighton and still got progressively better and his TD-Int. ratio isnt horrible.
Palmer=Bruce Gradkowski. Both are slingers who throw a lot of INT’s and usually at least 1 per game. I’d rather have the guy who doesn’t turn the ball over.
Also, Palmer can’t make plays with his legs like Campbell or even Gradkowski.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
Palmer is really really really really bad
It’s not even funny, you just feel bad for the guy
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html
IF..........
Campbell can help this team win 3 out of 4 ( or 2 out of 4) of our next games , sure , why shouldn’t he be the starting QB next year (IF THERE IS A NEXT YEAR)
I said coming into this year if we can win 7 or 8 games I would be happy, and if campbell can help us do that , I’m for it next year
For him to be better or the answer at QB. We need better O-line talent; bodies.
Not sold at all. Not on JC, but on our O-line, and if the O-line gets dominated by the real teams JC will suck, we don’t even deserve to smell the playoffs if this happens more often as we face strong teams. This is my final vedict.
by Starburst. on Dec 8, 2010 10:48 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd. The weakness of the QB position has not really been eliminated as KAIZ3R says..
The O-line tends to be overlooked. If you don’t have a HOF or Pro-Bowl caliber QB, you better have a damn good line. And I mean at least consistent in not letting guys through easily.
The RaiderLaker
okay, what HOF or pro Bowl QB ever did what they did without a consistent O-Line? A QB isn’t simply HOF on his own. If he doesn’t have a running game, a good O-Line, and consistent wide receivers, he won’t be a HOF or Pro Bowl QB. Simple as that. Does Campbell have any of those? Running game maybe. Campbell is never going to be able to be a great QB if we don’t get anything put around him. Ford and Miller (TE) are the only receivers right now who should be starting. Murphy and DHB are still dropsy and have trouble getting open. Neither to me should be a starter. Get a sure-handed possession receiver, RT, and RG and Campbell would be the QB you want him to be.
Till then, he’s winning with next to nothing. That to me makes him a good QB
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
If the O-line gets dominated by the other team, every QB
not named Manning or Brady will suck. Look at what just happened to Philip Rivers.
"Some field has fences, and sometime, the field cant hold a player, but most of the time, a field cant hold Domingo"
www.domingobeisbol.com/Domingo/Home.html
Whoa! after I thoroughly read it... I disagree with this type of propaganda.
And I quote:* “Jason Campbell has played through a lot (poor receiver play, inconsistent O-Line play, slow starting running game versus Seattle and Kansas City notably, pressure of being benched, chemistry issues due to constant depth chart changing and benching, etc), but has produced a winning record and just might get Oakland possibly in the playoffs. Or at the very least, a 7-9 record (can’t see us going 6-10).”*
************************************************************************************************
Damn lies. He will go as far as the O-line takes him. (The current one sucks against upper echelon teams)
Poor reciever play? Sure, and we lost those games. Ford has emerged, DMAC and Reece can also “recieve.” Poor O-line play? Yes, and we lost those games also. Slow starting run game? Look at O-line…
O-line plays very well = JC “wins” games.
You came off as saying it in a manner that implies that he is the reason why we are 6-6. Not. Don’t undersell the rest of the team.
The RaiderLaker
The rest may be true though. The always looking his shoulder thing and the benching thing.
The RaiderLaker
uhhh I dont think he was underselling the team.
it seems his biggest point was that Bruce has a losing record as a starter and Jason doesn’t. Bruce is interception prone and Campbell takes care of the ball better.
Well maybe our defense and running game are actually what wins games (and Ford’s special teams), but Campbell doesn’t lose games.
Apparently you didn’t read it very thoroughly. I never said Campbell is the sole reason we are 6-6. That’s crazy. We all know that this defense and the running game is what has won us our 6 games. but Campbell didn’t lose the game by throwing interceptions or not getting a couple passes in to backoff the defense.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
AMAZING !!!!, SIMPLY AMAZING !!!
“We all know that this defense and the running game is what has won us our 6 games. but Campbell didn’t lose the game by throwing interceptions”, and the following statement, made NO sense what so ever, so I didnt bother to copy it , KA1Z3R !!! During the 3 game winning streak, 2 of those game, the offense accuminlated over 500 yards, With Campbell completing pass’s for over 300 yds, in each game !!! The defense did it’s part, but for you to sit up here and say Campbell, didn’t loose the game for us, is total bullshit !!! I take it you’re part of the cult also, and now u’r kinda lost that Gradz is done, period. Get over it !!! The Debate is DEAD, And truefully, there was no real debate !!! 1 game, last year filled the cult full of…………… full of something ???? Gradz got guts, Gradz is Firery, Gradz lifts the team, when he plays, all of this is true !!! But what you choose to neglect is, that he’s a backup, A CAREER BACKUP !!! ALWAYS WAS, ALWAYS WILL BE !!!!!
Wow you’re lumping me as a grad “cult” member? Yet I have been saying in this whole and game threads that I want Campbell starting. Seriously dude chill out and actually read. In fact I have Campbell’s back here. When did I say was a grad supporter here? No where
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
by KA1Z3R on Dec 9, 2010 2:26 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Whole article*
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
by KA1Z3R on Dec 9, 2010 2:27 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
papa sees a conspiracy against JC in any
post that doesn’t say JC is great. Even the mere mention that maybe the defense and running game won the games for us will (as you saw) get him going, even though no one said anything about Gradkowski at all.
JUST DOMINATE BABY !!!
thanks for the support Jag and rambis.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
No conspiracy......
I’m just reading what you write !!! I mean, give JC the credit, that he earned on the field, that’s all !!! When JC went into that shellshock BS play, I was one of the first to say, bench him !!! But I don’t knock a player for doing good, like what your statement above, basically does !!! Jager, Rambi, Your devotion for gradz has no limits, and thats cool !!! You 2 do yo thang !!! I let the stats, back up my arguments about the QB’s, NOT MY FEELINS !!!!
We won't give him *the* credit.
We will give him some credit. This is a team effort overall. He’s doing good.
(The credit makes it seem as you want him to get all of it, no.)
The RaiderLaker
No !!! Read my original reply !!!
Pay attn, or read more thoroughly !!! I said the WHOLE TEAM stepped up, and played the way we thought were capable of playing !!!
I have no devotion to Grad
I have a devotion to the Oakland Raiders, what ever is best for them is what I care about. JC really impressed me last week, that’s the best he’s looked yet. I hope he continues to thrive and really get our system down so he knows it in his sleep. I also was quite impressed with JC under pressure with his dish outs to Bush and Zach and with his play/action fakes. He still has more to learn but he’s progressing nicely. He has also looked quite bad in some games
That’s the point you seem to miss, just because someone wants JC to be better and play better does not mean that they are Grad cult followers. We just want what’s best for the Raiders, same as you.
JUST DOMINATE BABY !!!
I stated Before, and I'll state it again for you Rambis....
I’ve always thought JC was the better QB for the Raiders, due to his Stats, with the Redskins !!! Considering he had progressed each season, depite the constant turnover in OC’s, in his whole tenure there. When he played bad, I was one of the first to say he should’ve been pulled earlier, than what he was !!! But it’s become quite obvious, the better the O-Line plays, the better he plays !!! Fix the O-Line for consistantsy, and we may have an All-Pro already in the fold !!! Having an adequate backup is paramount, which I thought Gradz would be a perfect Fit, but he himself, shot that theory down !!!!
I just re-read your last sentence.........
in your response, and there, We’re in total agreement, " We just want what’s best for the Raiders, same as you".
Not to mention clock management
2 drives = 1 qtr LOL…. When you pass a lot the defense doesn’t get to rest as much.
The Autumn Wind is here. Time to set sail.
Adding my 2 cents....
Im ok with campbell for next year, but if he is, i want a qb drafted developing in the process. Not sold on him as our franchise qb yet. If he plays Manning like(ill let you decide which one currently speaking) for the stretch of the season/play offs and progresses during the off season, then ok, but thats a lot of ifs and to ask for from campbell. Im more interested in FA QBs, mainly Vick, he’s redeemed himself and remade himself over the last 2 years and am very willing to welcome him to the raider nation. Imagining him making big plays with his legs AND arm wearin the silver and black in very tempting. But for now, im focused on this sunday against Jax and looking way more towards a raiders playoff run then the raiders draft/off season.
what makes you think Vick will come here and
Out of no where our WR’s are going to catch the ball. JC is a lot cheaper so you can built a team around him. For Vick to come here its going to take a lot of money so we can kiss signing a WR in FA good bye. We won’t we able to resign a players on the current roster. JC has shown he is willin go to work for his job I can live with that. Then its going to take another year for the Vick to get use to playing with these WR’s. He play in Phil. last year with those guys he is use to them. Everyone here knows what this team needs First better Coaches, Some vets on offense. Plus our Defensive Scheme is to predictable we won’t beat top teams like the Pat’s running man to man all game. We have to run a smarter system on defense We are winning games but we have to change things up on defense he have to allow these guys to make plays not play simple assignment football. The same on offense JC has to throw it deep a few times a game.
Philly
will simply franchise tag Vick for the next 2 years. Without Mcnabb on their payroll, they will simply tag Vick. He’s not going anywhere.
by raiders4liffe on Dec 9, 2010 8:19 AM PST up reply actions
edwards boller matchup...
that would be great.. or zach miller vs zach miller
Campbell is beter than Trent. That I can be sure of.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
Edwards is just barely better than Russell
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
thats.... kind of true...
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
These players, a lot of other people didn't believe in them, but they believe in themselves. And that is all that matters."- Bill Belichick
I'm also a Raider Fan dammit!!! RAIDER NATION!!!!
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