Caveat Raiders II: Commitment to Excellence lacking in Deep South

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 12, 2010 7:23 PM PST

"Caveat Raiders II" revisits the data pattern that appears when comparing the backgrounds of players and their salaries to their performance on the field. It examines whether the Raiders should consider a player's background as a significant factor in its selection process, and speculates on whether or not the phenomena can be overcome.

The table below shows the 25 Raiders making $1,000,000 or more/year. Those players whose names are bolded are generally considered poor performers - some worse than others. Gradkowski, who gave us much joy and hope last season, makes $541,760 - 5% of Russell's salary!

Our general consensus is that we need a lot of help on our Right O- Line and on the Interior D-Line. The three DTs who played last season are the 3^rd, 5^th and 9^th highest paid on the team roster; the ROG and ROT are the 10^th and 16^th highest paid Raiders, respectively.

When you look at the table you will notice that some players received a Caveat-Index [CI] ranging from 1 to 4; the legend below will explain how the CI is assigned.

This brings us to the crux of the matter. The raw data indicates that 6 of the 9 ‘poor performers' who make more than 1 Million/year both grew up and played college ball in what is know as the Deep South. The Deep South [DS] is a widely used term designating the geographic area comprised of five states and the northern portion of a sixth: Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, and Northern Florida. This region shares a common culture that is distinct, unique, and (with some exceptions) monolithic and pervasive.

Once it came to light that 6 of our 9 worst players came out of the same cultural incubus we discussed and argued whether or not to boycott DS players for the good of the Raiders. A poll was taken (in which 288 votes were cast) and a 52% majority voted to abstain from bringing in any more DS players - except those coming out of Alabama.

Many have and will deny there is a problem. Some blame Al's misjudging talent or the Raider organization's lack of structure or discipline that exacerbates propensities that DS players seem to possess.

During the 500+ exchanges that took place on ‘Caveat Raiders I', names of great Raiders were presented with assertions that they were from the DS - but the facts could not support any but five: Willie Brown, Kenny Stabler, Hewritt Dixon, Ray Guy, and George Atkinson; all grew up in the DS and played their college ball there. They demonstrate that no matter what adversities a culture imposes, an individual can overcome them and become great.

A list of all the Great Raiders is presented below the Table

Oakland Raiders Player-Salary-Profile Table

Player	Position	Total Salary	College	Where Raised	CI*
Nnamdi Asomugha	CB	$12,001,560	California	Los Angeles, CA	1
JaMarcus Russell	QB	$11,255,440	LSU	Mobile, AL	4
Tommy Kelly	DT	$7,001,560	Mississippi	Jackson, MS	4
Shane Lechler	P	$6,401,560	Texas A&M	East Bernard, TX	1
Gerard Warren	DT	$6,130,000	Florida	Lake City, FL	4
Chris Johnson	CB	$6,006,760	Louisville	Longview, TX	1
Robert Gallery	OL/G	$5,999,260	Iowa	Winthrop, IA	1
Darren McFadden	RB	$5,391,760	Arkansas	No. Little Rock, AR	1
Richard Seymour	DE	$3,787,860	Georgia	Gadsden, SC	4
Cooper Carlisle	OL/G	$3,506,760	Florida	Greenville, MS	4
Justin Fargas	RB	$3,506,760	USC	Encino, CA	1
Greg Ellis	LB/DE	$3,000,000	North Carolina	Wendell, NC	1
Isaiah Ekejiuba	LB	$2,456,760	Virginia	Suffield, CT / Nigeria	1
Darrius Heyward-Bey	WR	$2,420,000	Maryland	Silver Springs, MD	1
Kirk Morrison	LB	$2,301,760	San Diego State	Oakland, CA	1
Cornell Green	OL/OT	$2,006,760	Central Florida	St. Petersburg, FL	1
Javon Walker	WR	$2,002,600	Florida State	Lafayette, LA	4
Sebastian Janikowski	K	$2,001,560	Florida State	Walbrzych, Poland	2
Mike Mitchell	S	$1,910,000	Ohio	Fort Thomas, KY	1
Ricky Brown	LB	$1,551,760	Boston College	Cincinnati, OH	1
Erik Pears	OL/T	$1,506,760	Colorado State	Denver, CO	1
Khalif Barnes	OL/T	$1,200,000	Washington	Spring Valley, CA	1
Matt Shaughnessy	ED	$1,162,250	Wisconsin	Norwich, CT	1
Jon Alston	LB	$1,016,760	Stanford	Shreveport, LA	3
Tony Stewart	TE	$1,000,000	Penn State	Allentown, PA	1

*Caveat-Index [risk factor for Raiders (D is high risk)] CI

Raised Outside the Deep South And Played College Ball Outside the Deep South	1
Raised Outside the Deep South But Played College Ball in the Deep South	2
Raised in the Deep South But Played College Ball Outside the Deep South	3
Raised in the Deep South And Played College Ball in the Deep South	4

Saint and Spirals suggested that the Raider organization itself might be a factor in the failure of DS players due to its lax structure and Al's famous laissez faire towards players -"treating men like men" and (ironically) abstaining from interference. It's true that Al's way is the opposite of those methods of the SEC and perhaps a militaristic approach could work with DS players - if, in fact, the problem is the need for externally imposed discipline. But why should the Raider culture change to accommodate a foreign culture?

NB. This article is entirely about culture's adverse effects on Raider performance; it has nothing to do with race. brhynno speaks for me and others when he writes, "This, above all, should be the factor by which we choose a player: the innate desire to be great; [players who] don't care about getting paid, just being great."

GREAT RAIDERS (those who played in 2 or more Pro Bowls as a Raider)
12 Pro Bowls	5 Pro Bowls	3 Pro Bowls	Great Raiders in HOF
Jim Otto	Terry McDaniel	Ben Davidson	Jim Otto
9 Pro Bowls	Lester Hayes	Jack Tatum	George Blanda
Tim Brown	Todd Christensen	Marv Hubbard	Willie Brown [DS]
8 Pro Bowls	Marcus Allen	Dan Conners	Gene Upshaw
Howie Long	Dave Casper	Don Mosebar	Fred Biletnikoff
Art Shell	4 Pro Bowls	Mike Haynes	Art Shell
Steve Wisniewski	George Blanda	Lincoln Kennedy	Ted Hendricks
7 Pro Bowls	Ken Stabler [DS]	Fred Williamson	Mike Haynes
Ray Guy [DS]	Hewritt Dixon [DS]	Dave Grayson	Howie Long
Willie Brown [DS]	Raymond Chester	Harry Schuh	Dave Casper
Gene Upshaw	Phil Villapiano	Nnamdi Asomugha	Marcus Allen
6 Pro Bowls	Daryle Lamonica	2 Pro Bowls	Non-Player HOF'ers
Fred Biletnikoff	Ted Hendricks	George Atkinson [DS]	Al Davis, Coach/GM/Owner/Icon
Shane Lechler	Cliff Branch	Vann McElroy	John Madden, Coach/Ambassador
	Clem Daniels	Henry Lawrence
	Chester McGlockton	Derrick Burgess
	Art Powell	Warren Wells
	Rich Gannon	Greg Townsend
		Tom Keating
		Darrell Russell
		Kent McCloughan

Tweet Comment 49 comments | 2 recs |

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Comments

I Love the content, BUT, there are some serious formatting issues:

You may nheed to retype everything into the system again instead of typing it in word and then cut and pasting it.

It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09

by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 12, 2010 6:05 PM PST reply actions

Whats up with the ads, K-Y Intense, I think its causing lag when scrolling down.

The RaiderLaker

by JaggerJaw on Feb 12, 2010 6:15 PM PST reply actions

Great article btw. Rec'd.

The RaiderLaker

by JaggerJaw on Feb 12, 2010 6:23 PM PST up reply actions

You have a crazy ability to provoke deep thought, SOB.

I remain regretful that some have taken your prior post, in an unfortunate and what I believe to be completely unfounded and misunderstood way. You have thus presented your evolved opening argument with the skill of a trial lawyer, while definitely in a way that is much less prone to being misunderstood. Kudos.

I think the better question that has surfaced with the “much ado about nothing,” imo, is this: Is it the miltaristic approach by the coaches, staff, program, and the way the entire towns that largely exist as part of the football program, put the football program before almost anything in life, and all its inhabitants, have tremendous influence on the player the key from the DS demographic? There is a clear pattern of Al to allow the player to become great within this dynamic, or to part ways. Jamarcus is, while the worst case scenario example for us as fans, a perfect one who lives up to this pattern. It’s clear his stubbornness this decade has us hesitant to part ways. Al has, nor ever will ride his players; rather, he’ll expect them to show up and act as professionals. This is the pros, as they call it.

Appreciate the shout out. I truly find it unfortunate that version 1.0 was imo completely misconstrued, but I believe we all learned a little something from the power of our posts. Excellent research. I sincerely hope whomever we find ultimately deciding on our next personnel (I do not feign ignorance as to who that is!), will heed our consensus belief that they should possess that desire with which the greats past were born and blessed, and have the ability to do so.

"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew

by brhynno on Feb 12, 2010 6:41 PM PST reply actions

Conclusion

Yeah, the Deep South sucks. I hope they secede from the country and so the SEC will disband! To hell with Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Arkansas and bits and pieces of Florida. Wait, Alabama is okay. Wait, no, it’s not because JaMarcus Russell was reportedly raised there. Wait, yes, it’s still exempt because of the college. Well, this guy counts and this guy doesn’t because he was raised here and went to school there. There are so many exceptions and what not I don’t even know what counts and what doesn’t.

We really needed to post this generalization again, of course.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 12, 2010 7:17 PM PST reply actions 2 recs

Al has become...

a piss poor judge of talent. Deep south or not, Al can’t scout for sh!t anymore, and the current roster and salary cap numbers speak for themselves. That 13 mil Jamumbles number against the cap just makes me want to vomit.

I still shake my head everytime I hear Heyward Bey’s name on the radio. 9 freaking catches all freaking season… Dammit.

"We can't stop here... This is bat country."

by Kwester421 on Feb 12, 2010 9:01 PM PST reply actions

I have no idea where you are going with this argument

you failed to make a case in your deep south article #1 so this #2 is meaningless. Your data amounts to nothing. Face reality: where a guy comes from means less than the environment he is put in to succeed.

If you just want to make fun of people from the deep south or mischaracterize their abilities as NFL caliber athletes then you have made your point. Otherwise, you have nothing to say worth a damn.

by Al's Wingman on Feb 12, 2010 11:47 PM PST reply actions

where a guy comes from means less than the environment he is put in to succeed

yep. You make Blanda’s point.

by Spirals galore on Feb 13, 2010 12:26 AM PST reply actions

If DS players need an SEC boot camp environment to succeed then they shouldn't be brought to Oakland

We need men who have the inner drive that does not rely on external forces to bring out their best. But, the DS doesn’t typically produce men with inner drive. Thus, DS players are not a good fit for Oakland. Thank you Al’s Wingman and Spirals for your appreciation of the situation.

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 13, 2010 12:41 AM PST up reply actions

I don't suppose you have any evidence that SEC football programs are tougher than other programs?

by RaiderPete on Feb 13, 2010 2:18 PM PST up reply actions

Epic FAIL!

All that you have done here is regurgitate the same misplaced irrelevant "idea" you had and pretty it up a little. You keep trying to sell us your theory, but as R-RS has brilliantly pointed out, has so many exceptions and variances that no reader could reasonably conclude your position. What you have dome serves no purpose anyway, because even if Al Davis and his handlers were to actually read what you have written, they would not be able to reach a conclusion that would change anything.

Please Blanda, go back to the drawing board, try again and author something that is credible and has integrity.

by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 13, 2010 6:47 AM PST reply actions

There are only 4 possibilities on the Caveat Index. By popular demand a variance was given to Alabama

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 13, 2010 9:45 AM PST up reply actions

Oh and

nice skirting the race issue. Where is Mickey Marvin on your list, oh, I guess he is another “exception”.

by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 13, 2010 6:49 AM PST reply actions

Micky Marvin has a CI-1

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 13, 2010 9:42 AM PST up reply actions

All that being said,

and then set aside, I’m inclined to look for another wide receiver to compensate for Heyward-Bey: Brandon LaFell (LSU) in the 2nd.
I

by xville on Feb 13, 2010 8:26 AM PST reply actions

LSU

Come on, their players fail. Guys like Bradie James, Joseph Addai, Dwayne Bowe, LaRon Landry and Alan Faneca totally suck.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 13, 2010 8:43 AM PST up reply actions

Obviously the Cowboys,

Colts, Chiefs, Redskins, Steelers and Jets can deal with players from LSU better than the Raiders.

by Spirals galore on Feb 13, 2010 9:13 AM PST up reply actions

Right

They’re only better than us at drafting players when it comes to the SEC. Never mind the other conferences, though.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 13, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions

... because the cultures of those NFL teams can handle SEC players who were raised in the DS better than we can

By the way, Michael Bush and Louis Murphy are doing very well in our organization. I point that out because they both have a CI-2. Perhaps if we had a Paul ‘Bear’ Bryant type coach the SEC players would thrive in Oakland.

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 13, 2010 9:53 AM PST up reply actions

SEC players who were also raised in the DS, that is, because, as you're aware, many go to college in the DS

who never grew up there.

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 13, 2010 9:55 AM PST up reply actions

No

… because the cultures of those NFL teams can handle SEC players who were raised in the DS better than we can

They are just better at drafting.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 13, 2010 10:02 AM PST up reply actions

Odd that we draft significantly worse from the SEC than from anywhere else (6 of our worst 9 players)

and if DHB (ACC -Atlantic Division) isn’t considered a starter (and he shouldn’t be) then we have 6 out of 8. That means 75% of our worst starters are from the SEC. Maybe you should reconsider this a bit more objectively b/c the data does indicate something and “coincidence” isn’t very persuasive when you consider that this isn’t a recent trend with the Raiders but goes back over the decades.

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 13, 2010 10:48 AM PST up reply actions

Sorry

I don’t believe in generalizations and that’s why I won’t “reconsider this a bit more objectively.”

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 13, 2010 12:08 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

Statistics enable us to form our opinions based on the way things really are

so your disbelief in generalizations doesn’t apply here. Do you think Drew Brees is a great QB? Would his statistics enter into the formulation of your opinion of him? I think so. So opinions that develop through statistical assessment are not based on generalizations but on statistical data. This is how a lot of science develops. I invite you to ponder the advice of the great Jewish thinker, Maimonides, that we should adapt our opinions to things rather than adapting things to our opinions.

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 13, 2010 12:47 PM PST up reply actions

You more than anybody here should take that advice

by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 13, 2010 12:58 PM PST up reply actions

I had no opinion about the DS player problem until the data revealed the problem

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 13, 2010 1:12 PM PST up reply actions

Opinions

… that we should adapt our opinions to things rather than adapting things to our opinions.

My opinion is based to “things” and things like there are good players that went to schools like LSU, Mississippi and whatever schools in Florida count and don’t count.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 13, 2010 1:05 PM PST up reply actions

If you insist on believing that Russell and Kelly are good players then you are not

adapting your opinion to reality.

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 13, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions

Yes

That’s exactly what I was insisting!

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 13, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions

Is the following statement a generalization or a fact that statistics will support or refute?:

Asian Americans make great NFL quarterbacks.

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 13, 2010 1:22 PM PST up reply actions

Neither

There aren’t any, I think.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 13, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions

timmy chang's been trying

by Spirals galore on Feb 13, 2010 1:45 PM PST up reply actions

What about him?

Roman Ildonzo Gabriel, Jr. (born August 5, 1940 in Wilmington, North Carolina). The son of a Filipino immigrant, he was the first Asian-American to start as an NFL quarterback and is considered by many to have been one of the best players at that position during the late 1960s and early 70s. Drafted by Raiders in 1992 but signed same year with the Rams
College: North Carolina State
4-time Pro Bowler & 1-time First-Team All-Pro

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 15, 2010 10:52 AM PST up reply actions

Generalization

“All players from LSU, Arkansas, Mississippi and Florida suck.”

No, they don’t all suck. No, they’re not all stars. We just suck at picking players from there most of the time because we suck at drafting and I know that because no team has been worse over the last seven seasons.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 13, 2010 1:30 PM PST up reply actions

?

"All players from LSU, Arkansas, Mississippi and Florida suck."

Your words, not mine. My theory is in this article viz. DS players do poorly in Oakland – probably due to their lack of self-discipline and motivation. Other NFL teams might do better with these players because they have more structure and discipline (like the military provides for so many DS young men). But the Raiders aren’t anything like the SEC’s and some NFL team’s cultures.

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 13, 2010 1:45 PM PST up reply actions

No

DS players do poorly in Oakland – probably due to their lack of self-discipline and motivation.

It’s because we suck at drafting players.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 13, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions

Hypocrisy?!

I don’t believe in generalizations and that’s why I won’t "reconsider this a bit more objectively."

we suck at drafting players. The Ultimate Opportunist

Huhumm, this sounds like a generalization to me. But how can it be a generalization when you claim never to generalize? So you must think all the following players we drafted “suck” (your word, not mine): Nnamdi Aomugha, Louis Murphy, Michael Huff, Tyvon Branch, Thomas Howard, Justin Fargas, Shane Lechler, Matt Shaughnessy, Zach Miller, Cahz Schilens, Desmond Bryant, Trevor ScottJay Richardson, etc.
But, I don’t believe that so it proves, at least, two things: 1. you contradict yourself and 2. we do not always draft badly (but do draft badly from the SEC.

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 13, 2010 6:10 PM PST up reply actions

Good Reach

You’re off base, though. If you look at our percentage at drafting pretty good players as opposed to players that aren’t so good, our percentage is bad and that is why we’re bad at drafting players.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 13, 2010 8:09 PM PST up reply actions

That is not a statement statistics can measure.

by RaiderPete on Feb 13, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions

Have you ever said, "I love you" to a woman?

Well, the veracity of that statement is not something statistics can measure without setting up criteria for what and how that love would be manifested and measured.
Here’s another one. Do you believe the culture in France is the same as the culture in North Korea? That one shouldn’t even require statistics. There is also something called common sense.

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 13, 2010 6:17 PM PST up reply actions

This was a response to the ability to measure the Raider culture as opposed to the SEC's

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 13, 2010 6:19 PM PST up reply actions

He's likely the best one

we could acquire in the 2nd.

by xville on Feb 13, 2010 9:02 AM PST reply actions

Carlos Dunlap who has a CI-4 is another shoddy goods DS export

Carlos Dunlap has major bouts with laziness and lethargy. Matt McGuire details why Carlos Dunlap is overrated.
   1. Weaknesses:
   2. Lacks a first step; doesn’t fire out of stance
   3. Not the elite athlete he is hyped up as
   4. Extremely inconsistent
   5. Lacks serious power at point of attack
   6. Very soft and not physical
   7. Dominated by inferior talent
   8. Not mentally tough
   9. Not as productive as stats would lead you to believe
  10. No pass-rush move outside of spin
  11. Lacks counter moves
  12. Doesn’t seem to love the game
  13. Poor intangibles
  14. Lethargic body language on the field
McGuire goes a bit too far, adding:

Al Davis or another clueless general manager may take Dunlap in the first round

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 14, 2010 8:24 AM PST reply actions

McGuire

He didn’t go too far at all with the Al Davis comment. If he did, it was with the way he’s assessing Carlos Dunlap. He makes Dunlap seem like someone that will only be taken in the seventh round. If he seriously had all of those football weaknesses, Dunlap wouldn’t be projected to go in early part of the second round by most at the worst. McGuire should know better. Dunlap just has those character issues, such as that DUI.

And no, Carlos Dunlap’s weaknesses don’t make your “theory” float. Why don’t you piss on Brandon Spikes or something? They went to same school, but yeah, Spikes probably doesn’t even count because of his exception or something.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 14, 2010 8:50 AM PST up reply actions