Caveat Raiders: Deep South Players Fail in Oakland
Though the cause remains uncertain, the effects of acquiring players from the Deep South are typically disastrous for the Oakland Raiders. A brief review of the current Raider roster and player salaries reveals two significant facts: first, most of our weakest starters are the highest (>$1M/yr) paid and, second, those same players (without exception) came out of the Deep South.
2009 Oakland Raiders Salaries
|
Player |
Position |
Total Salary |
Cap # |
College |
|
Nnamdi Asomugha |
CB |
$12,001,560 |
$6,001,560 |
California |
|
JaMarcus Russell |
QB |
$11,255,440 |
$13,618,215 |
LSU |
|
Tommy Kelly |
DT |
$7,001,560 |
$6,337,826 |
Mississippi |
|
Shane Lechler |
P/K |
$6,401,560 |
$3,101,560 |
Texas A&M |
|
Gerard Warren |
DT |
$6,130,000 |
$2,422,000 |
Florida |
|
Chris Johnson |
CB |
$6,006,760 |
$3,006,760 |
Louisville (from East Texas) |
|
Robert Gallery |
OL |
$5,999,260 |
$5,263,928 |
Iowa |
|
Darren McFadden |
RB |
$5,391,760 |
$4,664,760 |
Arkansas |
|
Richard Seymour |
DE |
$3,787,860 |
$3,685,000 |
Georgia |
|
Cooper Carlisle |
OL |
$3,506,760 |
$2,306,760 |
Florida |
|
Justin Fargas |
RB |
$3,506,760 |
$3,185,093 |
USC |
|
Greg Ellis |
LB |
$3,000,000 |
$2,499,999 |
North Carolina |
|
Isaiah Ekejiuba |
LB |
$2,456,760 |
$1,623,426 |
Virginia |
|
Darrius Heyward-Bey |
WR |
$2,420,000 |
$2,420,000 |
Maryland |
|
Kirk Morrison |
LB |
$2,301,760 |
$2,479,360 |
San Diego State |
|
Cornell Green |
OL |
$2,006,760 |
$3,016,760 |
Central Florida |
|
Javon Walker |
WR |
$2,002,600 |
$3,835,933 |
Florida State |
|
Sebastian Janikowski |
P/K |
$2,001,560 |
$2,636,560 |
Florida State (He's from Poland) |
|
Mike Mitchell |
S |
$1,910,000 |
$710,000 |
Ohio |
|
Ricky Brown |
LB |
$1,551,760 |
$1,551,760 |
Boston College |
|
Erik Pears |
OL |
$1,506,760 |
$1,276,760 |
Colorado State |
|
Khalif Barnes |
OL |
$1,200,000 |
$1,200,000 |
Washington |
|
Matt Shaughnessy |
DE |
$1,162,250 |
$523,062 |
Wisconsin |
|
Jon Alston |
LB |
$1,016,760 |
$1,016,760 |
Stanford |
|
Tony Stewart |
TE |
$1,000,000 |
$1,000,000 |
Penn State |
|
Michael Huff |
S |
$951,760 |
$3,091,760 |
Texas |
|
Langston Walker |
OL |
$900,000 |
$339,706 |
California |
|
Louis Murphy |
WR |
$760,000 |
$422,500 |
Florida |
|
William Joseph |
DT |
$630,000 |
$470,000 |
Miami |
|
Sam Williams |
LB |
$625,200 |
$465,200 |
Fresno |
|
Stanford Routt |
CB |
$621,560 |
$1,103,210 |
Houston |
|
Charlie Frye |
QB |
$620,000 |
$460,000 |
Akron |
|
Jon Condo |
LB |
$541,760 |
$541,760 |
Maryland |
|
Bruce Gradkowski |
QB |
$541,760 |
$541,760 |
Toledo |
|
Thomas Howard |
LB |
$541,760 |
$1,091,760 |
Texas El Paso |
|
Luke Lawton |
RB |
$541,760 |
$541,760 |
McNeese |
|
Chris Morris |
OL |
$541,760 |
$541,760 |
Michigan State |
|
Michael Bush |
RB |
$466,760 |
$591,735 |
Louisville |
|
Hiram Eugene |
CB |
$466,760 |
$466,760 |
Louisiana Tech |
|
Mario Henderson |
OL |
$466,760 |
$625,260 |
Florida State |
|
Johnnie Lee Higgins |
WR |
$466,760 |
$611,760 |
Texas El Paso |
|
Zach Miller |
TE |
$466,760 |
$708,010 |
Arizona State |
|
Oren O'Neal |
RB |
$466,760 |
$495,760 |
Arkansas State |
|
Jay Richardson |
DE |
$466,760 |
$515,260 |
Ohio State |
|
Samson Satele |
OL |
$465,720 |
$465,720 |
Hawaii |
|
Gary Russell |
RB |
$462,600 |
$462,600 |
Minnesota |
|
Brandon Myers |
TE |
$401,000 |
$332,750 |
Iowa |
|
Tyvon Branch |
CB |
$391,760 |
$520,716 |
Connecticut |
|
Chaz Schilens |
WR |
$391,760 |
$404,596 |
San Diego State |
|
Trevor Scott |
DE |
$391,760 |
$420,510 |
Buffalo |
|
Todd Watkins |
WR |
$391,760 |
$391,760 |
BYU |
|
Jonathan Holland |
WR |
$385,000 |
$339,706 |
Louisiana Tech |
|
Desmond Bryant |
DT |
$320,000 |
$315,000 |
Harvard |
|
Nick Miller |
WR |
$315,000 |
$312,500 |
Southern Utah |
|
Total |
$111,527,250 |
$96,975,421 |
|
The Deep South is comprised of 5 states [Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina] - they are marked in deep red on the map below. Northern Florida (the panhandle across) and Eastern Texas are also considered to be in the Deep South because those regions share the same distinct cultural characteristics. 
A tree is known by its fruits and a cause can be known by its effects. What is certain is this, the performance of those starters who came from the Deep South is consistently rotten. These players comprise about 33% of our first team rosters and the positions they play correspond uncannily to our vulnerabilities. The noble efforts of the rest of the team is diluted by their rotten play. Any hope of winning more than 5-6 games with them on the team is unwarranted. Bad trees don't produce good fruit.
Many might respond: But the Deep South produces players who often do well in college football and go on to the NFL. True, but once the Raiders pay these players a lot of money their play drops off, their motivation to play even remotely close to their potential evaporates. I believe the Deep South's distinct, unique and relatively monolithic culture is responsible for producing players whose performance is not driven by the right motive. The Great Raiders were always motivated by the desire to be great, to distinguish themselves and the Raiders - of which they are a part. Whoever does not already have "commitment to excellence" as his primary motive for playing football will never do anything significant here. With those whose motivation is money: football is merely the means to acquire it; but once money is gotten (and Al is rarely stingy) a comfort-zone of complacency sets in and these same players immediately decline and fail to to reach anywhere near their potential. JaMarcus Russell is a paradigm example of someone playing the game for the wrong reason, pragmatic, crass - money. It is impossible that money can drive performances such as we witnessed in the SB contenders this season. Except for occasional poor tackling, the players on those two teams played with the spirit and will to conquer that money can never provide.
So, from its effects, I believe the Deep South's sickness is essentially a perversion of motivation - an apathy for excellence. The pure desire to be a great player - for its own sake - just isn't one of the attributes imbued into Dixie's young men - as proven by, at least, Oakland's experience.
Finally, I realize there are exceptions, such as HOF CB Willie Brown who grew up in Mississippi and played for Grambling. But if you look at all the data, specifically Raiders who went to Pro Bowls, you'll discover that most did not grow up in the Deep South or go to college there. Those who were drafted from the Deep South and amounted to something were usually from somewhere else and were recruited by Deep South colleges.
NB. This investigation is based on the Raiders' rosters going back to the beginning and no other NFL teams.
1 recs |
507 comments
|
Comments
Didn't know Virginia is in 'deep south' [map is from article by UNC Chapel Hill prof.]

by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 4, 2010 1:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Damn SB my eyes. Every time I see that Russell cap number I cringe.
What can I say man we all know we need a GM. The CBA needs to be fixed & it starts with a hard cap on rookie salaries. It makes very little sense for unproven players to make more then league stars.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
by Ovale Fan on Feb 4, 2010 7:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+ 1
unions are necessary but, like the owners, greedy as hell.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 4, 2010 8:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Raiders may be the only team
Where the punter is the 4th highest paid player, and that still may be too low considering the 2nd & 3rd players on the list.
Woohoo, I get to look forward to another 7-6 season ("at best") in 2010! There's nothing like going to Idaho for a bowl game.
by S Jay Bruin on Feb 4, 2010 2:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Funny
Not drafting players from “the deep south” is a stupid strategy and I can’t believe that, right now, 76 percent of people don’t want anybody from that area. I laugh at that suggestion of not taking players from states like Mississippi, Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Arkansas and others around there just because we’ve had a bad apple or two. I guess we shouldn’t have taken Michael Oher over that, you know, one wide receiver from Maryland.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 4, 2010 3:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Alabama is excluded from the boycott and South Florida isn't in 'deep south' (consult map)
I don’t know whether it’s laziness, ignorance, or complacency once these bible-belters are handed more money than they’ve ever imagined, but there is something’s off.
The following Raiders made it to the pro-bowl more than any others.
Jim Otto (Miami) 12 Pro Bowls
Tim Brown (Notre Dame) 9
Howie Long (Villanova) 8
Steve Wisniewski (Penn St.) 8
Art Shell (Md – Eastern Shore) 8
Do you see any players from the deep south? No, because there aren’t any.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 4, 2010 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
We have had five guys make it to a Pro Bowl at least eight times and none of them went to a “deep south” school and so we should avoid a player from that area. Let’s just draft guys from Miami, Notre Dame, Villanova, Penn State and Eastern Shore, then. We couldn’t be that much worse.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 4, 2010 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No. Let's have it your way and continue drafting from the Deep South and have a whole
team of non-achievers like these turkeys:
Chris Johnson
Gerard Warren
Tommy Kelly
Hiram Eugene
Carlisle Cooper
JaMarcus Russell
Cornell Green
Javon Walker
Darren McFadden
Oren O’Neal
Dick Seymour
Bush and Murhpy are exceptions
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 4, 2010 4:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wait
Florida didn’t count and yet you’re including people that attended Florida, Florida State and Central Florida. Secondly, I see you’ve included players that we didn’t draft. Sign the right talent regardless of school and you won’t have a problem. I count seven people we didn’t draft on that list. You’ve also included someone that has made the Pro Bowl multiple times.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 4, 2010 5:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Please go back and read. According to a scholarly paper, the southern half of Florida
e.g. Miami area, is not considered demographically as part of the deep south. I am therefore putting players from University of Florida, Miami up. As for putting people up “multiple times”, the first list was of the stellar Raiders and the other lists are positional.
Fn. I read your words carefully and would appreciate the same respect – if you don’t give respect – I promise you won’t get any from me.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 4, 2010 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
I don’t believe in separating Florida like that. Florida is Florida. I’m sorry for not reading your words carefully since you didn’t make sense to me with the way you divided up Florida.
As far as respect goes, I’m not disrespecting you because I misread your garbage about this part of Florida being considered this and the other part of Florida being considered that. If that’s the way you feel, whatever.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 4, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's not Blanda's division of Florida--he says he found the map in an article by a professor
probably a sociology professor. When you go to college, you’ll have to take a lot of such stuff.
by Spirals galore on Feb 4, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fine
It’s not his map, but he believes in it. Dividing Florida up like that in terms of football talk is stupid. We don’t divide up Cal and Stanford from USC and UCLA. They’re all Pac-10 schools from California.
I don’t care if I’ll have to take a lot of “such stuff” pertaining to sociology.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 4, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that was a more carefully phrased take
What do you mean when you say “I don’t care if I’ll have to take a lot of "such stuff" pertaining to sociology”?
by Spirals galore on Feb 4, 2010 5:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing
I mean that I don’t care and that’s what I said.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 4, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you don't care about sociology or
you don’t care about having to take sociology? In either case—why the lack of care?
A further distinction you should have made—instead of “It’s not his map, but he believes in it”—which you cannot know for sure—you should have said “His choice of map appears to, etc.”
by Spirals galore on Feb 4, 2010 5:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sociology
I don’t care about taking it. I’ll take whatever I have to take.
You’re right. I don’t know that for sure. It seems to me that he believes in it, though.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 4, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Education
The idea of leaving high school saddens me because of how much fun I’ve had. This way, I can become a teacher, have weekends off, have full benefits and never have to leave! Plus, I think it’s something that I’ll enjoy.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 4, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Teachers are an endangered species
but I applaud your choice. It’s a tough job though—you’ll have to be gentle in your firmness… And there’s always going to be someone unhappy with you.
by Spirals galore on Feb 4, 2010 5:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you'll be more sad if you do become a High School teacher, All hell breaks loose there.
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 4, 2010 5:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My first job ever was a high school teacher
They put me in a senior class full of boys. The boys assumed I’d be an easy prey. I had tons of fun.
by Spirals galore on Feb 4, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lemme guess... Christian School.
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 4, 2010 6:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lemme guess again...and they started bagging on u because u believed in God.
(hopefully Im correct)
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 4, 2010 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't at the time
I was barely older than they were. They thought they could destabilize me by flirting and by deflecting. It didn’t fly. They loved me afterwards.
by Spirals galore on Feb 4, 2010 6:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Flirting? but they are all boys? wait...you are a dude right....
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 4, 2010 6:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Never mind I uncovered the truth...Damit I bet il'l make a good detective.
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 4, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
:)
When with boys, speak like a boy.
by Spirals galore on Feb 4, 2010 6:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought
Spirals Galore was a dead give away besides the fact that we know your married to Sons-of-Blanda.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 4, 2010 6:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
really!....Is that true...
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 4, 2010 6:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And here I was about to ask her out...lol ;)
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 4, 2010 6:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a geographical map
There is absolutely no sociological data in that map. When you go to college, you’ll have to take a lot of such stuff.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
by Ovale Fan on Feb 4, 2010 7:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a geographical map
it’s a map from a scolarly article. The geography is skewed accordingly.
by Spirals galore on Feb 4, 2010 8:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not geographical because it's a scholarly article?
LOL, that’s awesome. Thanks for the correction and sorry I brought it up.
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
by Ovale Fan on Feb 4, 2010 8:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Southern Florida is comprised of a lot of New Yorkers who retire their and Cubans
and others who significantly change the demographic in comparison to Northern Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, etc. They are different culturally. My theme, is that the culture is different in the deep south, the work ethic, and many other characteristics. So, LSU may have a great Science or Business school but that misses the point b/c even if these players are taking organic chemistry or differential calculus or quantum physics, the deep south culture remains prevalent.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 4, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
I don’t think the culture is different down in Mississippi, Georgia, Louisiana and schools around there when compared to schools like USC. Of course, there are things that are different such as fan atmosphere and things of that nature; however, I think each player is different. Each player should be treated differently regardless of school.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 4, 2010 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What do you base your conclusion on? I believe you base it on the assumption
that because Florida a single state the people in Miami must be very much like those in the north (Gainesfield, Tallahassee and Jacksonville). But, you’re wrong regardless of what you stubbornly choose to think. I expect your first year in college to be a bitch.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 4, 2010 5:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
People
There are different people in all states, of course.
I expect your first year in college to be a bitch.
What are you basing that off of? The fact that I rank 77th in a senior class of 596 students? How else do you judge someone that you don’t even know?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 4, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is Florida not in th South??
:=8/
Big McLargehuge!
:=8O
by The MooCow on Feb 5, 2010 5:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A Culture does not necessarily follow tidy geographical zones
The Southern part of Florida is not included in the Deep South b/c most of its population e.g. in Miami area, do not share the mindset, history, values, religion, voting record or politics and economy of those in the northern half of the state. The latter are in what is known as “the bible belt” and demographically included with Mississippi, Georgia, etc.
Note: besides identifying statistical evidence leading to the conclusion that importing deep south players is a recipe for disaster, this post also invites discussion on the underlying reasons that deep south players are often so disappointing as Pros.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 5, 2010 6:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
did you do the research you promised us
on whether the unsuccessful players coming from Deep South universities played in non-Deep South high schools first? I am curious about it.
by Spirals galore on Feb 5, 2010 7:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there were two anomolies in the All Pro data - Biletnikoff and Willie Brown
Turns out Fred hailed from Pennsylvania and his family moved to Panama City Florida before he attended Florida State in northern Florida. So, there you go.
However, Willie Brown grew up in Yazoo City, Mississippi and went to Grambling … so he is a significant exception to my theory. Having said that, my instincts have largely been supported by the hard-metrical data.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 5, 2010 7:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can we add usc to the list of don't go near?
Aside from the great Marcus Allen (drafted almost 30 years ago), I can’t remember any Raiders who came out of sc that were underachievers (Fargas included). I can think of Marinivich, Darrell Russell, Cole Ford, Mike Williams, Darnell Bing, Lane Kiffin, etc.
Woohoo, I get to look forward to another 7-6 season ("at best") in 2010! There's nothing like going to Idaho for a bowl game.
by S Jay Bruin on Feb 4, 2010 4:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You'll have to ask Al; he's partial to them
but looking at the colleges that are sending players into the NFL who eventually end up in pro-bowls is starting to fascinate me. To really do the study right, I’ll need to see what high school the attended. I suspect many of the exceptional athletes coming out of the deep south are not from there originally.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 4, 2010 5:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and it kind of makes me sick
as a UCLA fan, but the South has become the place for big time college football and big time athletes are going to the SEC schools primarily (although the Pac-10 recruiting was off the hook this year too). Unlike the Pac & Big 10 though, the academic levels of many of these Southern schools isn’t on the level with their athletics, so maybe that has something to do with it (obviously there are exceptions like North Carolina, Duke, Vanderbuilt).
Woohoo, I get to look forward to another 7-6 season ("at best") in 2010! There's nothing like going to Idaho for a bowl game.
by S Jay Bruin on Feb 5, 2010 9:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No Linebacker from the Deep South has ever made it to a Pro Bowl as a Raider
This is the complete list of Raider LB pro-bowlers:
Ted Hendricks (Miami) 4 pro-bowls
Phil Villapiano (Northwestern) 4
Dan Connors (Miami) 3
Archie Matsos (Michigan State) 3
Rod Martin (USC) 2
Matt Millen (Penn State) 1
Gus Otto (Missouri) 1
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 4, 2010 4:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
No Center from the Deep South has ever made it to a Pro Bowl as a Raider
Only these Raider Centers have made it:
Jim Otto (Miami) 12 Pro Bowls
Dave Mosebar (USC) 3
Barret Robbins (Texas Christian) 1
Dave Dalby (UCLA) 1
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 4, 2010 5:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
No Guard from the Deep South has ever made it to a Pro Bowl as a Raider
All Raider OGs who have made it to the pro bowl:
Steve Wisniewski (Penn St.) 8 Pro Bowls
Gene Upshaw (Texas A&M) 7
Wayne Hawkins (Pacific) 5
Max Monova (UCLA) 1
Kevin Gogan (Washington) 1
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 4, 2010 5:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
So?
Draft a good lineman from “the deep south” and maybe that person will develop into a Pro Bowl player. If we took Oher, he would have made the Pro Bowl.
By the way, singling out positions and saying things like “no player from the Deep South has ever made it to a Pro Bowl as a Raider” is a bad example. If no one from a particular school made the Pro Bowl on our team, it doesn’t mean the school sucks.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 4, 2010 5:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Great Post LSU sucks never draft from that lame-ass school. and any other unknown deep south schools.
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 4, 2010 5:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
LSU
Yeah, they’re terrible. LaRon Landry, Bradie James, Alan Faneca, Kevin Mawae and Joseph Addai suck.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 4, 2010 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It just pisses me off that they let a dumbass guy get in their schools, its almost insulting.
The guy cant speak well, may not even read! for gods sakes, that is what pisses me off from LSU. They have been known for guys with low work ethic but have talent; they have to look past the talent and see how comprehensive they are in speech and reading and overall good responsibility(work ethic). Maybe im just overreacting about LSU, but I Hate that clown.
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 4, 2010 5:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Russell
I hate him as well, yeah, but he was great at LSU. As far as JaMarcus’ speaking goes, he just has that southern accent. I don’t know how good of a student he was.
Monta Ellis also speaks that way and he’s from Mississippi, so it’s a southern thing. They’re obviously different in terms of skill level at their sport.
they have to look past the talent and see how comprehensive they are in speech and reading and overall good responsibility(work ethic).
At the end of the day, it’s all about winning in college football. It’s a hustle. Athletes get special treatment. LSU was pretty good when Russell was there. They didn’t care if he earned an “A” in math as long as he was out there winning games.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 4, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have never heard Monta Ellis speak as bad as Russell, atleast u can understand the Kid.
And he’s a lot smarter. Just saw an iterview on him(since im no Warriers fan) and he sounds good, not selfifsh and blaming others, he gives credit to his players, Overall Russell is a special case of talent but no smarts.
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 4, 2010 5:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Russell
The funny think is I kind of understand when he talks, and it’s only when I read transcriptions of what he said that I start laughing. At least he doesn’t make me cringe when he talks the way W made me cringe. But then perhaps, my expectations for presidents are higher.
by Spirals galore on Feb 4, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I also cringed, when W spoke
The almost hour long clip of Letterman’s “presidential moments in history” makes you wonder how we survived his two terms.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 4, 2010 6:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bush on OB/GYNs
We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB/GYNs aren’t able to practice their – their love, with women all across the country."
by Spirals galore on Feb 4, 2010 6:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All this tells me is that
NFL players are being paid way to much! LaDainian Tomlinson is leaving the Chargers because he doesn’t want to make a 1 Million Dollar Paycut! Thats ridiculous! ESPN is saying its acceptable because it would hurt his pride! Fuck that, Hes a selfish asshole! Players like that are embarassing the NFL. And their needs to be a Rookie Payroll. No more record braking contracts
Thats what she said
by Remix. on Feb 4, 2010 5:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Word, thats just being greedy; Its getting out of control this salary shit. As rookies get big contracts shit they just lay back and count that money.
Russell and some dude named Vernon Gholston from the Jets. Atleast the others try. Fuckin Robbers.
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 4, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was rooting for Vernon out of the draft
But I know what you mean. These guys get crazy contracts that can feed a small country and they havent played a down in the NFL
Thats what she said
by Remix. on Feb 4, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been saying this for quite some time. What little desire some of these guys innately possessed to be great players
takes a quick backseat to being “rich, beeyotch!”
This, above all, should be the factor by which we choose a player: the innate desire to be great; these guys don’t care about getting paid, just being great. There comes a time when a guy who risks his body every down must look to do what’s best for their families, and are not always motivated by greed. Just most of the time.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 4, 2010 6:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And most deep south athletes rarely can sustain drive because they already
achieved their goal when they come into big money.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 4, 2010 8:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Deep South has nothing to do with it, of course
Who brought them all here does.
The Raiders have to go back to acquiring players who love the game. The Raiders need playmakers. The kinds of things you won’t ever measure at a combine.
by CoachConnors on Feb 4, 2010 7:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The combine is overrated but still has some validity
We just have to stop making the same mistakes.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 4, 2010 8:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would think so too but
In fact I do think the combine has some validy for most teams. What I think this team needs however, is not found in the combine. Maybe that’s just the inevitability of what drafting based on 40 times will do.
I honestly think a GM of the Raiders could go the whole draft with barely a look at the combine, because getting guys who love to play, and who are playmakers, is really what what is needed here.
by CoachConnors on Feb 4, 2010 8:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you've touched it with a needle
if money is the only motivation, then unless someone is exceptionally greedy, they will lose their drive once they attain their financial ‘comfort zone’ … and in the NFl that can happen even at a very young age.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 4, 2010 8:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It has happened here
Which is exactly why I’m suggesting a sincere focus be applied on the opposite end of the spectrum, to give some balance. Like, find guys who love to play the game. The guys who everyone says has a real passion for the game, all the way back to their Jr High Coach. Give me a draft of these guys. Combine be damned for right now.
by CoachConnors on Feb 4, 2010 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Too Funny
Good catch,if I were Chaz and Miller I would be pissed and Mike Mitchell is from Ohio not Ohio State.I think we need more Pac 10 guys on this roster maybe that’s why The Raiders have so many penalties and mental mistakes.After 3 years with Russell I say no more LSU players period.
by bayparkphil on Feb 4, 2010 7:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I missed that, but can't edit b/c everything appears as hypertext
bottom line – Ohio is not in the deep south; so Mitchell is not as suspect as he might otherwise be.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 5, 2010 12:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone has tampered with my post
They changed the title and fucked up the data.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 5, 2010 7:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yea they fail
It’s all kinds of F-ed up atm.
gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false EN-
"-i never said half the things i said." --Yogi Berra
by Ovale Fan on Feb 5, 2010 8:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It would seem someone didn't close a tag somewhere.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 5, 2010 8:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd Brandon Spikes
If he somehow slips to us in the 2nd. I truely believe he’s the next Ray Lewis
by $73.27 on Feb 5, 2010 9:41 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I can't decide
If we should draft Bruce Campbell then Spikes or Rolando McClain and the best o lineman available.
One thing is for sure MLB is a huge need
by rambis64 on Feb 5, 2010 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
You’re basically saying that Spikes will become the greatest linebacker of all time, right?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 5, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No
But if he stays out of trouble then he has the potential to be a H.O.F.
by $73.27 on Feb 5, 2010 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Big Difference
There’s a big difference, if you ask me, when you’re calling someone “the next Ray Lewis” as opposed to just a Hall of Fame linebacker. Lewis is the greatest linebacker of all time.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 5, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lets look at good players from the south
Peyton Manning – Tennesee (from New orleans)
Jerry Rice – Some school in Mississippi
Brett Favre – Louisiana-Monroe? Can’t remember exactly but he went to school in the south
LaDanian Tomlinson – TCU
Terrell Davis – Georgia Tech
Herschel Walker – Went to school at Miami, but I think he’s from Georgia
Those are some of the best players to ever play their positions, and they are all from the south.
You can make any point you want if you try hard enough. I could just as easily invert your data and show that the Raiders should never draft anyone from the north again because so many of those players bust.
by HawksFTW on Feb 5, 2010 11:10 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
here is a map (the dark red states are the ones considered Deep South)

by Spirals galore on Feb 5, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what's the reason for the ligther red and darker red?
Just curious.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 5, 2010 11:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
difference in terms--geographical South vs. sociological Deep South
by Spirals galore on Feb 5, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
gotchya
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 5, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What Blanda may have been referring to all along:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_SouthCultural variations
Although originally considered Deep or Lower South, the states of Florida and Texas—as a whole—are not usually classified with this sub-region today. While areas of both (notably East Texas and the Florida panhandle) still retain many characteristics of the Deep South, heavy migration from outside the South as well as other historical circumstances have had the effect of diluting its overall cultural influence elsewhere within these states.
In the case of Florida, some 15% of Florida’s population are retired people from all over the country. This is especially apparent in coastal South Florida. Many families (especially from the Northeast) move to Florida, and have become well-cemented into the area. In many parts of the state, this creates a cultural atmosphere very distinct from the rest of the Deep South. The culture is even further influenced by the huge Hispanic presence (20.1% of the population is Hispanic with 15.94% as White Hispanic). While most Deep South states have some semblance of a Hispanic population, they are nowhere near Texas’ or Florida’s in size.[citation needed] This diversity occurs mainly in South Florida and Central Florida. However those native to Florida (sometimes referred to as a Florida Cracker), in many parts of the state, such as the Florida Panhandle, North Central Florida, the Florida Heartland, and parts of rural Florida, do maintain the Deep South culture.
In addition to migration from non-Southern states and an ever growing Hispanic population in recent decades, the settlement history of Texas after the Civil War was also a major factor in its becoming separated from the generally regarded Deep South. The western half of the state was a frontier after the conflict, and although the vast majority of new settlers were displaced Southerners looking to get a new start and Southern culture very much dominated, the resulting cattle boom and cowboy era gave rise to a way of life for many which was in stark contrast to that of the ante-bellum Deep South. Too, the physical environment (plains and prairies) of large parts of Texas differed considerably from that of the forested and cliched “moonlight and magnolias” Lower South. Although cotton remained “king” in Texas, these factors—along with the popularity of Hollywood “western movies”—began to establish Texas as “different” from the other states of the Deep South.
by Spirals galore on Feb 5, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am curious about the following scenario
You have a promising young player from another state. He goes to a Deep South university and plays football well enough to be drafted by a NFL team, where it becomes clear that he is deficient. (JR does not fall in the group I am asking about, b/c he is born and raised in what is considered Deep South.) Do you know of such players, and how much of their lack of NFL success is attributed to the cultural influence of the Deep South?
I hope I phrased this clearly enough—let me know.
by Spirals galore on Feb 5, 2010 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
research
I tried to do some research on this scenario: I went to Pro-Football-Reference.com, got the biggest nfl draft bust by college, got some names of busts from Deep South institutions and then further checked their records on various online sources. I welcome all suggestions on how to refine the search, b/c nothing really sticks out—except the following “bust”: Harvey Williams.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Williams_(American_football):
Williams grew up in Hempstead, Texas, where he was touted as one of the country’s top high school running back prospects in 1986. Williams was considered a lock to commit to nearby Texas A&M, but shocked everyone when he committed to LSU at the last minute on signing day.
The highly-contested recruiting battle created a lot of bitterness between the two schools (LSU and Texas A&M had recently revived their yearly football rivalry). Because of it, Williams went to LSU in 1986 with outrageous, perhaps unrealistic, expectations. LSU fans were expecting a Heisman Trophy-caliber running back, but he never became one, partly because of knee injuries. He still had a decent college career, however. Williams ran for over 2,800 yards in his 4 years at LSU, and is fifth in LSU history in career all-purpose yards. In his final season at LSU, he was named to the All-SEC team. Based on this season’s performance and his still largely-untapped potential, the Kansas City Chiefs selected Williams in the first round of the 1991 NFL Draft.
After a miserable career with the Chiefs, Harvey Williams joins the Raiders, who are in LA at the time:
In 1994, Williams moved on to Marcus Allen’s former team, the Los Angeles Raiders. He would finally get a chance to be a starter, and would respond with two good seasons. He would rush for 983 yards in 1994. He followed up this season with his only 1,000 yard rushing season, rushing for 1,114 yards and 9 touchdowns in 1995.
After 1995, Williams would lose his starting job to another first round pick, Napoleon Kaufman, and would eventually be moved to tight end. In 1997, he had perhaps his most memorable game as a pro, scoring 4 touchdowns in a 38-13 win over the San Diego Chargers. He would stay with the Raiders until his release after the 1998 NFL season.
I know this is not exactly on point—i.e., it doesn’t do anything to prove or disprove the hypothesis I am exploring, which is whether or not the culture of the Deep South was a factor in Williams’ NFL busthood. As a matter of fact, the guy was a bust only with the Chiefs; when he came to the Raiders, he got unbusted.
by Spirals galore on Feb 5, 2010 5:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hempstead, Texas could be considered eastern Texas (not certain about the
cultural demarcation. Houston is no longer considered in the Deep South culture and Hempstead is not far away – but with a name like ‘Hempstead’ I suspect it’s DS.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 7:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So I guess...
Jerry Rice (Miss Valley State)
Doug Williams (Grambling State, LA)
Walter Payton (Jackson State)
Emmitt Smith (Florida)
Bo Jackson (Auburn)
Micheal Strahan (Texas Southern)
Eli Manning (Ole’ Miss)
Yeah, you’re right… I guess all these dudes did suck when I think about it. Dont be ignorant your whole life!!!
by Oaktizzle on Feb 6, 2010 12:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Sons-of-Blanda is a closet RACIST!
Oaktizzle you are correct with your finding above. What I read from this post’s comments and the purported “reasoning” from Blanda, is that he is profiling a certain areas of the country where athletes are stupid, fat, lazy, don’t know what to do with all the money they get thrown at them and do not make good pro athletes. His synopsis supposes that the “deep south” is the root of all evil. Well, he covertly puts it, but what he is saying, is that the black athlete who comes from those areas, which are often poor and under-developed, are the problem.
This is a weak attempt from Blanda to say, Raiders please don’t draft anymore dumb, fat and lazy black men from the “deep south”. Blanda should remember that the Civil War ended 150 years ago. You are a profiler and a racist, at least by the way you constructed your theory, which clearly is not empirical. Try again with more research and support facts before you put garbage up like this…Please.
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 6, 2010 4:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
where on earth did you get the racism interpretation?!
Give specific examples from the post and the comments.
by Spirals galore on Feb 6, 2010 7:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who are you?
Are you his spokesperson? Are you a stocking horse for a covert racist?? Can’t Blanda speak for himself with regards to my objections to his theorem?
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 6, 2010 7:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
a fellow blogger
who asked you to support your objections with specific examples.
by Spirals galore on Feb 6, 2010 7:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
One could make an argument for classist, but you must point out where SOB mentioned race, before I'll concur
The generalization you made is wholly unsupported; since when did the deep south insinuate everyone is a certain race?
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 6, 2010 7:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Let's not be coy
There was plenty of innuendo in his dissertation, particularly when his list(s) of fat, lazy and dumb athletes from the deep south do not include one white athlete. His reference to:
“bible belters” and the “mindset, history, values, religion, voting record or politics and economy”only go to confirm that innuendo. Again, where’s the white athlete, or shall I say, non-black athlete from that geographical area that makes his list to show an unbiased, non-racist classification.
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 6, 2010 7:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cooper Carlisle? And is it not yourself, who put a racial connotation on this?
Is it not perhaps arbitrary that this list of overpaid underperformers happen to be black? Where did SOB mention race? You pointed race, not him.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 6, 2010 8:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cooper Carlisle?
I didn’t know that he was “overpaid underperformer”?
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 6, 2010 8:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, so how about the color of his skin, now? You dodged the question heroically!
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 6, 2010 8:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There's nothing dodged
Cooper Carsile is a non-sequitur to the point of regional athletic abilities.
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 6, 2010 8:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow dude
Please stop while your ahead, You’ve expressed your opinion and now your just starting to sound dumb! SOB isn’t being a racist! In Fact, If anyone is being racist here, Its you! No one was even thinking of racism until you and “Oaktizze” came up and brought up all this horseshit that is taking us all off the main subject! SPORTS! So Plz, Shut up, or talk about football
BR3AKF4 St 0N CR4ACK
by Remix. on Feb 6, 2010 8:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I stand by my assertation
and you have said absolutely nothing except to insult someone for providing a counter-point to this discussion.
My guess is that you probably do not or did not understand the meaning of the word, covert or closet in my explanation. How about I add another word to help you better understand what I mean: stealth racist. I did not say that Blanda was “overtly” racist in posting his theory, I said he was a “closet/covert” racist. Do you understand the difference? He was implying without directly saying it…Got it?
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 6, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I fucking got it!
But you should just stop. Blanda has never shown any of you bullshit “stealth racist” ever! He’s one of the most respected bloggers on here. What your saying is disrespectful and totally out of line! Your not convincing anyone here, the only thing your doing is ruining your chances at ever having a respected opinion. You’ll just be known as that guy who pulls the race card
BR3AKF4 St 0N CR4ACK
by Remix. on Feb 6, 2010 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This dude's an assertation, RE!
Not sure what that is. But then, we don’t know what covert/overt means, either. We’re uneducated.
I think he meant assertion.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 6, 2010 6:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Again, where's your proof?
You’re twisting his meaning into what you want or fear it to be. Prove he is hiding his racism here. Simply asserting “stealth racism” doesn’t make it so. How about getting to know the man (Sons) before casting aspersions or drawing conclusions? Are those of us who didn’t find what he said closet racists? You’re way off on this. But you just keep looking for what you WANT TO see and you’ll see it. What a sad life you must lead.
by Rusty23 on Feb 6, 2010 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Had the pleasure to do so, and he is no racist. Pretty awesome guy, btw
Grateful to have met him, and for his thoughtful contributions to the site. He and ‘spirals’ complement each other perfectly. We are lucky for the presence, and an awesome blog as well.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 6, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for spending time with us!
Brhynno, we had a great time with you!
by Spirals galore on Feb 6, 2010 6:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, both, for your generosity and hospitality!
I had a great time too. I will look forward to when we’ll meet again, hopefully at McAfee, if not sooner! I liked the idea of “uniting Raider Nation…”
We’ll take the tailgate experience to a whole new level! It would be amazing to get a large group of sabp folks at one venue, but we couldn’t get a word in edgewise! lol
The pleasure was all mine:
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 7, 2010 9:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Funny how people jump on their soap box of choice to point a finger and read into things people say. I will tell you I have serious racial sensitivity for very direct personal reasons. I will tell you right now there is nothing racist about the post.
Get off the soap box and get a life.
The ACLU is waiting for you to donate and volunteer.
Win at all costs! Winning ugly is still winning! Remember the past and what got us to the top before. Jim Plunkett and winning ugly......enough said!
by TheLyleAlzadoPunch on Feb 6, 2010 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is obviously NOT racist:
Nnamdi is at the top of the money making list, is not from the Deep South, and is NOT included.
I find it interesting myself. It is a good topic to discuss. I think that he is wrong, but, it is a good talking point.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 6, 2010 10:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Demographics and the psychology behind them is a fascinating subject, and he's posing an interesting query on this
With some interesting statistics to back up his position. I have family from the deep south, and I believe there’s definitely something to it. I believe Jamarcus is perhaps the perfect example: when you come from a small town, the ideals are no doubt different for the most part (always exceptions of course); i.e. fishing is generally a high priority activity.
Not like ambitious fishing, either, like Marlin or Tuna, or Snook and Redfish on the East Coast Bays of Fla, but worm fishin’ for catfish in the local hole, watching your pole in the water, whilst taking in the scenery. It’s generally quite okay to spend the entire day doing exactly that. There are other dynamics, I’ve no doubt SOB will delve deeply into, but not until he’s produced the same quality research he has thus far to back his position.
My example may be a generic one, but I believe it 100% plays into the dynamics of a qb like Russell. Possibly why when you give them millions, and they can buy their mothers beautiful, grandiose homes, and buy themselves furs and bling (mom, too) they feel they’ve arrived, and have no desire to be great. Read the David White article on the Brees and Gannon similarities and how they’ve been motivated by being cut after leading their respective teams to the playoffs and replaced for Rivers and Grbac. Gannon haters still say he lost in the playoffs for KC; it was very much Elvis Grbac. But these guys were always too short, too small, not quick enough (not Brees, but making the point) not textbook delivery, this, that. It motivates winners to prove the critics wrong. Jamarcus, and many guys from this demographic are put on a pedestal from their performances since a kid, and this carries through when they’re hyped by all, and projected number one pick across the board. Many forget, almost everyone was projecting Jamarcus first pick overall, and not just because the Raiders were first pick; we all were fooled to some extent. I wanted to believe, but know better now.
Motivation to be great comes from within, and never from the almighty dollar. Some have it, some don’t, and it appears, at least in the Raiders history of picking players from SOB’s explicit empirical evidence that uncannily supports the theory, that at least in our case, it appears to deserve at least consideration by logical standards, whether one finds it offensive, or not.
I find my brother, who remains a fireman in the great “deep south” state we know as Louisiana, to be much less concerned with becoming the best fireman there ever was; rather, he enjoys that he holds a pillar of the community status, in a very small community, that remains largely to itself. I know, personal experience only lends so much credence to any theory, but the data Blanda has accumulated is staggering. Oh, and my brother is white! LMAO!
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 6, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ohh, He probaby thinks the pope (on his icon) is a white supremacist guy....LMAO
At first I myself was like wtf is that? a man in kkk looking robes but the i looked closer and it was the Pope…lol
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 6, 2010 10:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why did Blanda's last post get pulled?
by Spirals galore on Feb 6, 2010 8:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Probably because it was non-football related...and because maybe he really is gone so they took it down...
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 7, 2010 12:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 7, 2010 1:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
really? damn, sad to see him go...
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 7, 2010 1:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 7, 2010 9:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
apparently, not so sad to see that it is your actions mostly
that have caused him to go. I’m considering leaving myself.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 7, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no no
you’re the only guy I have that backs me up.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 7, 2010 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah that's true
may apologies.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 7, 2010 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I promise I'll do it more often too
However—and this is just an impression—you seem to lose the impetus to write if everyone backs you. Because I enjoy your writing, wouldn’t it be in my best hedonistic interest to split hairs with you every now and then?
by Spirals galore on Feb 7, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't care if people back me or not when I say stuff.
I wasn’t all that serious when I even made the comment. There’s not much to say if everyone agrees. To be honest there’s decisions being made on this site lately that I have no say over, nor do I want it, but it makes me want to take a break. And when I do voice an opinion I’m either told to chill or called a grumpy jack ass. When in truth I’m only a jack ass. If the site continues to degrade, I won’t waste my time.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 7, 2010 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I told you to chill once
and it was not meant in disrespect. Please accept my sincere apologies if I’ve annoyed you.
by Spirals galore on Feb 7, 2010 7:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was singling oout Saint.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 7, 2010 10:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Singling me out huh? For what?
Not being perfect? Creating a place that you can come and voice your opinion of the Raiders?
Please enlighten me…
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 8, 2010 3:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well how about you
read up a couple fucking posts and you’ll see it’s always about telling people to chill instead of trying to fix shit. See you’d know that if you would COMMUNICATE.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 8, 2010 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How about you NEVER speak to me like that again:
Take this as a warning. If you really do want or need to leave, no one is stopping you.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 8, 2010 6:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So we’re only allowed to call people out that aren’t editors. I didn’t know.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 8, 2010 6:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Swearing at me is uncalled for:
This is my site and it has been for four years. I’d think that you’d show some respect. Especially since this a free form of entertainment for you that I have dedicated thousands of hours to.
If you don’t understand that, then there is really no reason for you to be here. Don’t swear at people. It is in the guidlelines, not just off of the top of my head.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 8, 2010 6:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Write "Why I am also leaving this blog" on your fan post....lol
naw, but I think the losses caught up man, maybe he realized and said “man i need to take a break” this shit is bad for your health; with the stress of watching em’ get blown out, and the fellow co workers bagging on him which may get you angry, or depressed, sad(depends on type of person u are) and that slip up with his “tampered” post was the last straw, sad…..
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 7, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll wait 'til cooler heads prevail, and have the feeling Saint won't let him go
without doing the right thing; I want to believe he has the site’s best interests at heart. I still believe he does, just questioning from some decisions.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 7, 2010 11:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait... why is sons in the authors section?
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 7, 2010 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is saint not there?...as a matter of fact he has never been down there
Is he an editor, author?
The RaiderLaker
by Raider9 on Feb 7, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
editor
but he never marked himself as an editor for some reason.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 7, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
anonymity, and humility, can be everything
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 7, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
because it appears Saint absolutey has the site's best interests first
I apologize to him for overreacting prematurely; this site would’ve been a lesser presence without his.
Everyone enjoy the game today, Nation, and let us collectively look forward to brighter days for our team! I’m not going anywhere. It just would’ve been hard without the entire group; we are whole as we are, we are the vacuum created by one lost, without each and every one’s contribution.
This site, above all current media, exercises my ability to convey thought and the art of persuasion, and has inspired me to start the 1000 books I’ve had in my head, since deciding to become a writer.
Thanks to you all, and I’m glad to say I look forward to many more years.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 7, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am grateful for integrity, brhynno, and for your persuasive powers.
There are several others here to whom I am indebted by gratitude. A reconciliation with the hierarchy as been made. Love and strength triumphs.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 7, 2010 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Great to hear!
For old time’s sake, can you say something bad about Cable for me?
by Rusty23 on Feb 7, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hierarchy? HAHAHA!!!
That is funny!!!
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 7, 2010 1:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We have but ourselves to thank, for the collaboration
Enjoy the day, guys. Backing away from the keyboard, now…
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 7, 2010 1:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your Back!!!
Right on!!
BR3AKF4 St 0N CR4ACK
by Remix. on Feb 7, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Colleges
Look what it says for Janikowski:
Florida State (but he’s from Poland)
Does it matter? Asomugha went to Cal despite being from Louisiana. Does that make him exempt? If not, why is Janikowski “exempt” from the “south” title?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 8, 2010 3:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think that Nnamdi has influential relatives and connections to Cal Berkely, with a degree in corporate finance
I’m researching where I heard it now, and could be mistaken on this point, but I think where the kids are from and where they decide to attend college has everything to do with remaining among and therein representative the cultural demographic of the area. In fact, straight from Wikipedia really quick. He played basketball and football in Cali., as a kid, not a small town, or in the deep south:
Biography
Asomugha was raised in Los Angeles, California. He attended and played high school basketball and football at Leuzinger High School in Lawndale, California and Bishop Montgomery High School in Torrance, California before transferring to and graduating from Narbonne High School in Harbor City, California.
[edit] College career
Asomugha went to college at the University of California, Berkeley, where he finished his career with 187 tackles, three sacks, 19 stops for losses, eight interceptions, three touchdowns, 15 pass deflections, two fumble recoveries and a forced fumble in 41 games as a free safety. He graduated with a Bachelor of Arts in Corporate Finance.
[edit] Professional career
Asomugha was the second Cal player to be drafted in the first round (31st overall) of the 2003 NFL draft by the Oakland Raiders after Kyle Boller was taken by the Baltimore Ravens. He was moved to cornerback and made his first two career interceptions against the Cleveland Browns on October 8, 2006. He got his third interception four weeks later against the Pittsburgh Steelers. He returned this interception 24 yards for a touchdown. Though the team suffered through a 2-14 season, Asomugha’s 2006 campaign was his finest yet. In his fourth year, he finished the season with 50 tackles, eight interceptions, a sack, a forced fumble and one touchdown. His interception total tied him for second highest total in the National Football League along with four other players (including former Oakland Raiders cornerback Charles Woodson). Asomugha was invited to the 2007 Pro Bowl as an alternate in Honolulu, Hawaii but because of late notice he was not able to attend the annual all-star game 1. He also received the Oakland Raiders “Commitment to Excellence” Award and was named the team’s Most Valuable Player in 2006. Asomugha was selected onto Dr. Z’s Sports Illustrated 2006 All-Pro team 2 as well as The Associated Press 2006 All-Pro Team.3
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 8, 2010 7:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't able to confirm Nnamdi is from Louisiana--can you provide a link?
The wikipedia entry says he was raised in LA. Even if he was actually born in Louisiana, it matters where he was raised.
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He was raised in L.A., Not LA:
I think that rated R saw the LA and thought Louisiana.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 8, 2010 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And nice rewrite:
I’ve seen it getting changed and updated. How do you like it so far?
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 8, 2010 7:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So?
He’s from Louisiana.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 8, 2010 7:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, he's from Los Angeles: It is well documented:
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 8, 2010 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool
He was born in Louisiana.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 8, 2010 9:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if he were, it's not as though the land of cotton infuses genetic code into
the DNA of those conceived and/or born there. We are talking about second, not first nature, i.e. culture and the characteristics culture impresses on psyche.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
now that's a thought to pursue further
Premise: Being born in the Deep South doesn’t automatically result in performing according to the Deep-South cultural characteristics. Then two questions arise:
a) Does being raised in the Deep South always result in Deep-South performance? (I suspect data will show that’s not the case, but one should not jump on this bandwagon without further research.)
b) Do players elsewhere exhibit Deep-South type of performance? (Data may show that’s the case as well—ditto about the need for further research.)
If the answer to a) is negative and that to b) positive, then we are talking about players to avoid drafting—players with a set of propensities that can be provisionally called “Deep-South.”
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 6:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and then,
the question is, how can you fortell that a player with stellar performance earlier in life (like Harvey Williams, cf. my post above, excerpts pasted here too for your reading convenience) will perform poorly later?
Williams grew up in Hempstead, Texas, where he was touted as one of the country’s top high school running back prospects in 1986. Williams was considered a lock to commit to nearby Texas A&M, but shocked everyone when he committed to LSU at the last minute on signing day.
The highly-contested recruiting battle created a lot of bitterness between the two schools (LSU and Texas A&M had recently revived their yearly football rivalry). Because of it, Williams went to LSU in 1986 with outrageous, perhaps unrealistic, expectations. LSU fans were expecting a Heisman Trophy-caliber running back, but he never became one, partly because of knee injuries. He still had a decent college career, however. Williams ran for over 2,800 yards in his 4 years at LSU, and is fifth in LSU history in career all-purpose yards. In his final season at LSU, he was named to the All-SEC team. Based on this season’s performance and his still largely-untapped potential, the Kansas City Chiefs selected Williams in the first round of the 1991 NFL Draft.
Btw, Harvey Williams did perform poorly with the Chiefs and much better after he joined the Raiders:
In 1994, Williams moved on to Marcus Allen’s former team, the Los Angeles Raiders. He would finally get a chance to be a starter, and would respond with two good seasons. He would rush for 983 yards in 1994. He followed up this season with his only 1,000 yard rushing season, rushing for 1,114 yards and 9 touchdowns in 1995.
After 1995, Williams would lose his starting job to another first round pick, Napoleon Kaufman, and would eventually be moved to tight end. In 1997, he had perhaps his most memorable game as a pro, scoring 4 touchdowns in a 38-13 win over the San Diego Chargers. He would stay with the Raiders until his release after the 1998 NFL season.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 7:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Asomugha wasn't influence by the Deep South's pervasive culture
Asomugha was raised in Los Angeles, California. He attended and played high school basketball and football at Leuzinger High School in Lawndale, California and Bishop Montgomery High School in Torrance, California before transferring to and graduating from Narbonne High School in Harbor City, California.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know, it is a tough one to type?!?!?
Where did you get brhynno from, is it a Brian-Rhynno? Come to think of it. How did you come up with Sons-Of-Blanda?
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 8, 2010 7:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the truth
I had imagined Brynno as a rhino until I saw him—he is one mean, lean, surfing machine!
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 7:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
rhino was a nickname from my fellow wrestling team in hs, and my older brother who beat the shit out of me for fun
needless to say it toughened me. But good luck getting first dibbs on such a great nickname! So the blend became what I used, and the fancy spelling had to kinda work too. Interesting it works with my first and last name, Brian Norton.
I’ve divulged this info before on the community “tell us about ourselves” post we did last season. I trust the folks here enough. They could find it if they were fairly investigative enough in their ventures, with where I work and for whom…
Not the nickname, though! Just stuck, I guess.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 8, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Saint, that was a question I wanted to ask him when I met him, but forgot completely!
I’ve always appreciated it, and felt it fit him perfectly, but have been equally puzzled by its origin.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 8, 2010 9:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no worries, I'm not critical of mistypings, whatsoever. It's pretty clear when they happen and don't
I think another interesting question would be how many football players from the south study corporate finance, but then someone might call me racist!
It’s all good, to all who could’ve misconceived that… I’m gonna clown it for awhile, if you don’t mind!
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 8, 2010 9:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So?
He was still born in Louisiana! I get that he was raised in Los Angeles, but he was still born in Louisiana! Don’t pick and choose what facts you want to believe.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 7:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wait, kid--I think we already agreed
that DNA is not a function of where you are born. What is the point you want to make?
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 7:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Um
Well, gee, kid, the point is that he was born in Louisiana. Figure it out, teacher.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and what do you intend to demonstrate by pointing out this fact?
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Simple
He’s from Louisiana.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
good
you demonstrate that he is from Louisiana, therefore he is from Louisiana.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 2:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you pretending to be ignorant?
It’s the culture’s effect on someone that is in question not the accidental of where they were born. A baby might be influenced by a parent who is imbued by DS culture but that’s different than going to grade school and secondary school in a region that has a strong culture in which a person begins to consciously make their own choices and develop their own values and personality.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 7:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ignorance
You’re the one displaying that here with your hasty generalization about players from a few states. I’m not being ignorant. I’m pointing out a fact.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 11:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's an example of a hasty generalization:
“All authors on this blog have average or greater intelligence.”
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I for one hope we draft a Middle Linebacker
from Alabama in 2010.
I’d also like a power running back from Mississippi.
by xville on Feb 8, 2010 3:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
McClain is exempted from the Deep South - he's from Fort Lauderdale which isn't included
As for your other desire; Mississippi is absolutely under quarantine until their unhygienic plague is addressed.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you mean the state of Mississipi?
Jerry Rice—born and raised there, went to Mississipi Valley State.
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jerry Rice only went to one Pro Bowl as a Raider (2002) and he wasn't 1st Team
Whatever happens elsewhere, Deep South players don’t do that well here.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 5:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm for taking only guys schooled in Indiana
Drew Brees went to Purdue, the DB who made the game clinching int yesterday went to indiana, and should-be HOF’er Tim Brown went to Notre Dame.
No more raining on BN's rainy parade, they took their ball and went home, lmao.
by S Jay Bruin on Feb 8, 2010 5:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
are you saying that it is the Raiders culture that stunts players from the Deep South?
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 5:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, the "committment to excellence" is a stumbling block for those whose
culture has imbued them with the sole desire to make money and possess material objects. Materialism and Oakland do not go together – just walk around Oakland and you’ll realize that people here don’t care about furs, jewelry, Mercedes, and Gucci shoes for their feet.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 5:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You can make a case then
that most modern athletes would struggle in Oakland, which would then make sense that the 3 pro teams in Oakland are struggling. However, I think it has more to do with the organizations themselves are mismanaged than the origins of the player.
No more raining on BN's rainy parade, they took their ball and went home, lmao.
by S Jay Bruin on Feb 8, 2010 5:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to see more data before I agree wholeheartedly that Al is responsible
There are a lot of factors at work.
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But part of it may be that we just take the wrong talent
for our system.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 8, 2010 6:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, and and if so, I would like to pursue more
For example, what does “wrong talent” mean? What other factors inhibit the development of players from the Deep South who are unsuccessful with the Raiders?
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 6:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know this is Sons study
but by wrong talent I mean people that don’t fit our system and are picked for they’re athleticism only.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 8, 2010 6:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That is a what I see:
These players are athletic, but have the football acumen and work ethic of card board boxes.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 8, 2010 6:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that's an interesting take
Except that Galley doesn’t fit that mold. Granted he didn’t do good where we drafted him at but where he is now he’s good. And Huff changed his ethic too. So not every player fits the mold. Perhaps it’s the school and local area of the schools. Others on here have been stating LSU produces “lazy” players.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 8, 2010 7:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There is some evidence of that:
Only Dwayne Bowe has been a first round success for them in recent years, although they have some pretty A-Mazing athletes.
Jackson, Dorsey, Russell…
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 8, 2010 7:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm worried about KC, above all AFC west teams, next year
That organization has made the right moves of late; but I’m confident we’ll do our share of the same, FOR A CHANGE!
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 8, 2010 9:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, only if the prevailing American culture is so materialistic that
the warrior spirit is dead. But I don’t believe that, look at the game last night and tell me those guys were doing it only for money. They were playing for the glory and for being #1. My argument is that the Deep South has a monolithic culture that is pervasive whereas other places have looser structure and people develop more as unique individuals with non-conventional motives that might (I hope) include the type of “commitment to excellence” that marks the character of all great Raiders.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 6:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hm--this monolithic culture does indeed appear to have wide-ranging influences
Check this:
In their study Insult, Aggression, and the Southern Culture of Honor: An "Experimental Ethnography" Dov Cohen and Richard Nisbett found that Southern white males follow norms characteristic of a "culture of honor." This results in a higher aggressive reaction when insulted as compared to white northerners. In three experiments, people were insulted by a man who bumped into the participant and called him an "asshole". Compared with northerners—who were relatively unaffected by the insult—southerners were more likely to think their masculine reputation was threatened; more upset (as shown by a rise in cortisol levels); more physiologically primed for aggression (as shown by a rise in testosterone levels); more cognitively primed for aggression; more likely to engage in aggressive and dominant behavior.
Findings highlight the insult–aggression cycle in cultures of honor for this ethnic group. Insults diminish a man’s reputation and he tries to restore his status by aggressive or violent behavior.
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 6:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't related, of course, but I wonder where Mike1981 was reared
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 7:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe he hails from Philly (know he lives there now) like Gannon, and Gradkowski(close enough)
but that was a nice left-handed, low blow! I’m confident Mike will take it with the proverbial grain of salt….
I have hope…
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 8, 2010 9:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tell me, Muse, of the wrath of the son of Peleus (aka Brad Pitt)
who thought that his price was diminished when the girl was taken from him and given to this rascal, Agamenon….
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 7:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Achilles was concerned for his honor and not the prize
Briseis was only symbol of the honor he had earned. So it was an insult to his honor and not some material possession that angered him.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 7:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, the ancient Greeks were actually raised in the Deep South,
as evidenced by their word for “honor,” which actually means “salary.”
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 7:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAH!!! Sweet!!!
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 8, 2010 8:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
milk coming from my nostrils, right now
after one of those “pffthhssthhh” sneeze like bursts into laughter! And I’m not even drinking milk!
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 8, 2010 9:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And if the organization is responsible then why aren't guys like Scott and
Branch, Asomugha and Gradkowski affected? No, the players lining up man against man either are playing for the pride they take in themselves and their performance or something less worthy.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Success
Whatever happens elsewhere, Deep South players don’t do that well here.
Players — “Deep South” or not — haven’t been doing that well here for seven years.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 8, 2010 7:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 8, 2010 7:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but then, when Gradkowski came in
something changed. I am really after the metaphorical “invisible” muscles that support the whole body structure. I’ve been posting about Pilates for a reason (although it sounds frivolous at times)—what I mean is that people usually go after the big muscle groups and wonder why their body starts hurting after time. There are these tiny hidden muscles in the body that unlock so much.
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 7:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I need to get on a program:
Once I got injured and quit playing baseball a few years ago, I have let myself go pretty badly.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 8, 2010 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
me too
and I thought I was out for life, until I discovered Pilates.
Again, this is just a metaphor, but a worthy one.
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Some have been doing well - but when you've got only 66% on either side of the
ball playing good football you end up with our records.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 7:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Deep South originating players have been particularly bad
… and make the others look worse.
How we got so many of these deadbeats in Oakland is another question.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 7:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Great point, but there have been shining stars. The team, has been dismal. while players have had their days
And guys like Tyvon clocked a shitload of tackles. Not a good sign of the team, or its record, when the safety leads the team in tackles.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 8, 2010 9:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Our DTs are all from the Deep South - Mississsippi, Georgia and Florida
Once we strengthen the weak middle we won’t be plagued by the 3rd down conversions that plagued us last season (and before).
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Once we replace the Offensive Linemen from the DS our offense
will prosper. False start – Green and Carlisle removed from the Right Side would be sufficient.
FN. Mario Henderson was born and raised in Lehigh, FL which is in southern Florida, he was not tainted by DS culture except for his stint at Florida State which ill effects he has steadily been shedding.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 11:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The sad thing is, we've seen flashes of this, because that's all Kelly or Warren have been able to muster up
Even when the Ivy leaguer rookie amongst the group came in, we saw elevated play from the other ten guys on the field, and Bryant even made some of his own plays. One could make an argument for how few Ivy leaguers have the desire to be great football players, I bet, too! I hope no one finds that offensive! I certainly mean none, but speculate that most guys who attend the Yales and Harvards and Princetons of the nation, are quite motivated by yet something different!
I’ll lay off that subject for a while! So let’s do a post on how important the interview and our ability to read the applicants by staff and, ahem (Al)—assuming they’re not one and the same—is in the decision on if these kids are the right fit for this team, and its current dynamic.
I think a study on the demographics of the NFL’s top ten stud producing schools, like USC, Penn St. Notre Dame, Syracuse….
I think they usually share having a strong working class, and a diverse culture, near a major city in the U.S. and partially existent due to the loyalty and generosity of the pioneers of many of those towns.
The psychology is at the heart of this discussion, and therein the most fascinating aspect. I wouldn’t begin to speculate as to what is behind the psychology, but believe if you look for the deep south major city that mostly resembles the description above, and you’ll find the most exceptions to those that seem to fit the description of all the Raiders you’ve statistically shown to be in question.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 9, 2010 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The 'urban vs rural' affects might factor into the assessment
but at this point all I’m sure of is the need be cautious when we move beyond mere interest in a player who grew up or even played college ball from there.
Back to the city / country idea, there are farm boys from Iowa and ranchers’ son’s from Texas who excelled in pro ball, just as big city kids have. This would be an interesting and, possibly, break-through research project. Having said that, individuals being individuals, I like your idea about getting to know the person really well before bringing them on board.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 8:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey saint promote this again to the front page...lol :)
(a lil humor wont kill any1)
I’m pulling for us to get Dunta Robinson! thats enough to complete the D along with a big ass NT in the draft(instead of Warren)(Dan Wiliams) with a strong penetrating front line, the LB corps becomes better. IMO it’ll make Morrison or any other dude(formidable dude atleast) look like an Pro Bowler. So i guess this means im not really pulling for McClain. Wiliams if he falls to 2nd(although unlikely).
The RaiderLaker
by JaggerJaw on Feb 8, 2010 3:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
you might have a point about the filling of gaping holes improving the play of a decent MLB
but Kirk is caught making too many mental mistakes, and it is the MLB’s responsiblity to make sure the whole team is in the right place at all times as captain, and if Kirk is not in the right place himself, how can he direct the team?
I like Dunta, but not worth a high pick; DL and OL in the first few rounds, unless McClain is there, then DT and OT, whichever’s best, then the best guard, then the best corner, maybe if he falls to the fourth. I’d prefer the trenches were completely addressed with first four draft picks, then see what players are best in the later rounds. Don’t get me wrong! I think Dunta is the real deal, and among the most NFL ready corners.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 8, 2010 4:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait...Isn't Dunta a free agent? I thought he was, because I want O-line first and D-line 2nd...
The RaiderLaker
by JaggerJaw on Feb 8, 2010 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You are right
the O-line should be a priority, as I think both right guard and tackle spots should be replaced immediately. I think a true run stuffing nose guard would be the next priority, then another linebacker. At some point in the draft (maybe with the extra pick in the 3rd or 5th round) another cornerback will be needed too.
No more raining on BN's rainy parade, they took their ball and went home, lmao.
by S Jay Bruin on Feb 8, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, Jag. I was pretty unclear there.
If an agreement is not made, and the year goes uncapped, Dunta’s not available to us without serious trade bait.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 8, 2010 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am confused:
Dunta is IN the NFL. he plays for the Texans. I am guess that he is saying that we can trade for him.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 8, 2010 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
right, I should've been more clear
that was assuming trading meant trading away our draft position in one or more of our picks. I should’ve specified I like the idea of addressing CB with FAs available, but I didn’t think Dunta was a complete FA yet; it doesn’t matter if he’s unrestricted or restricted if the year goes uncapped. Houston will have first dibbs on him, and I don’t see them letting him go easily. It would take somebody we have we may not want to let go, and probably a pick if it came down to a trade situation.
The top eight teams will only be able to resign free agents they have; not take any others. This CBA thing affects everything. I’m watching some ramifications right now on NFL network (Mike Lombardi, however, bleh).
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 8, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I read in an article that They(Texans) have Owen Daniels(good TE) and Demeco Ryans as a FA.
So it makes it unlikely that they will resign him. I heard he was good(Dunta CB), Chris Johnson(our CB) aint cutting it…
The RaiderLaker
by JaggerJaw on Feb 8, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. CJ is the target week after week and shows that he can do nothing but get burned consistently
Not addressing weaknesses like that is maddening, because other great players on the defense shoulder the blame, and we don’t see how great they can be, when they’re playing dual roles of fulflling their own assignments and attempting to make up for others lack thereof.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 8, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And if he is too expensive another honorable mention should be Richard Marshall (CB Carolina FA)
This problem should be addressed in Free Agency.
The RaiderLaker
by JaggerJaw on Feb 8, 2010 4:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And Owen Daniels is a great TE!
He’ll be a Zach Miller type, because he’ll have games where he’s the only guy, because of doubles AJ draws and being Schaub’s go-to guy, but others where he’ll draw the doubles and open it up for his teammates. Solid blocker inn the run game, too.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 8, 2010 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep he is good!. So they probably will resign him.
The RaiderLaker
by JaggerJaw on Feb 8, 2010 4:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt in my mind, either
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 8, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the challenge of playing opposite of Nmamdi
will be enticing to some CB’s, but an upgrade would be helpful. Maybe Johnson would do well as a nickel back. I know Routt can’t play either position well.
No more raining on BN's rainy parade, they took their ball and went home, lmao.
by S Jay Bruin on Feb 8, 2010 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point. I know i'd be enticed, especially if we shore up the D line and lb corps
Pro bowl secondary, here we come! And you know some guys are thinking this…
We just need to be careful we don’t take another D’Angelo Hall type, who can’t man up to save his life.
Got to have man skills in this D. It’s like 90% man in the secondary.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 8, 2010 5:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK--so your hypothesis is based on Raiders data only
which also allows for some exceptions. I wonder if further research will show that Deep South players actually excel in other teams, and not with the Raiders; or that maybe Al, for whatever reason, goes for the suckers among the Deep South players?
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 5:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I leave that for someone else. I want to find out what works and does not work for us.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but if it turns out
that Al goes for a specific type that buckles under pressure, it would be the Raiders’ problem.
Oh, I forgot that Al is a given at this point. Do you think you’ll be able to re-educate him?
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be an interesting study
To be honest I’m surprised a sportswriter hasn’t done it yet.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 8, 2010 6:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What is he point of this article?
You can single out any team and find very good deep south players and some not so much. The same could be said about any region. I’m just not getting the pointing at a region and blaming them when maybe we should maybe blame Al Davis for picking JR.
by Walker Wallace on Feb 8, 2010 7:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
these are hard data about the Raiders
and people are trying to figure out why they are as they are
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not about any other team but Oakland. The data is amazing. Do you just dismiss it?
I don’t really know what the root cause behind the dismal performance of Deep South reared Raiders; but there is something negative that makes me want to pass on them.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I voted for "our luck is bound to change"
Another minor exception not already noted has been Chester McGlockton.
Also: why is Alabama excluded from the boycott? I mean, I agree with it. Heck, the great Ken Stabler of all people came from there. So did Bo Jackson (he went to Auburn, but Auburn is in the state of Alabama). But what is it about the state of Alabama makes it not part of the Deep South boycott?
by shadowfreder on Feb 8, 2010 8:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Because a dangerous trend has been exposed does not require that we abstain without exception
A case-by-case appellate review, if you will, should be at our discretion. Moreover, it’s already known that Rolando McClain was reared in Fort Lauderdale which is definitely not Deep South culture.
As for Chester MGlockton – he was raised in Whiteville, NC which is not in the Deep South.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah
I think you are on to something here. The difference with Alabama is Bear Bryant. In Bryant’s 34 years of coaching at the University of Alabama, he embodied loyalty, dedication, and toughness. To the extent that these qualities get ingrained in Alabama football players, these would serve them well on a team like the Raiders.
Oh, I mentioned Bo Jackson from Auburn. It turns out he was coached by Pat Dye, a direct assistant of Bear Bryant’s.
Now, taking this to the present day. Who is the modern day Bear Bryant? Joe Paterno perhaps?
Just thinking of “Pennsylvania” Raiders, we have a couple of good examples right away in Matt Millen and Rich Gannon. Hmm… Curiouser and curiouser… :)
by shadowfreder on Feb 9, 2010 6:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Social scientists call this a hasty generalization
I believe the culture of the Deep South is responsible for producing so many players whose performance is is not driven by the right motive…By its many effects, I believe the Deep South’s sickness is a perversion of motivation. The pure desire to be a great player for its own sake just isn’t there.
Hasty Generalization: Hasty generalization is a logical fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence. It commonly involves basing a broad conclusion upon the statistics of a survey of a small group that fails to sufficiently represent the whole population.
You cannot make these types of claim regarding players from the Deep South but only use examples from the Raiders. The actual problem is much more likely that the Raiders are simply bad judges of character, and has little to do with a motivation problem for Southern football players in general.
Say the Raiders are bad at drafting from the South, fine, but don’t base your generalizations regarding football players from the South based only on Raiders players from the South. Without more data, you’ve simply created a logical fallacy.
I'm in the smallest of minorities, but I'm still a big supporter of JaMarcus Russell.
by LiveAdam on Feb 8, 2010 9:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thank You
A hasty generalization is exactly what’s going on right here.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 8, 2010 9:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not sure Blanda suggests any definite answers--the discussion here is a proof
So it would be a hasty generalization to label his post a hast generalization. To say that the raiders are bad judges of character os overbroad—what exactly do you mean? That’s why I would like to examine. Otherwise we are back to sweepingly superfucual Al-bashing – which ultimately results in venting and skirting the Raiders problem.
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 9:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well, yes--I too have the urge to indulge in delicious Al-bashing
But that’s exactly why I also try to restrain myself, knowing well that my biases influence the way I perceive new info. Plus, bashing of any kind doesn’t lead anywhere, after a point.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 1:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm only speculating as to the cause of this remarkable data - basing it on the coincidence
of higher pay correlating to lower performance with one demographic region – the Deep South – whereas other starter contemporaneously acquired from other regions are generally playing good football.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 10:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that
but you’ve gone about it incorrectly by limiting the sampling population to only the Raiders. If you had said “NFL players from the South are lazy” and gave examples throughout the entire NFL then you may have something, but saying “Raiders players from the South are lazy, ergo all football players from the South are lazy” without backing it up creates your logical fallacy.
If you think the problem is unique to the Raiders players from the South, don’t you think that its something about the Raiders organization that makes them lazy, rather than being from the South?
I'm in the smallest of minorities, but I'm still a big supporter of JaMarcus Russell.
by LiveAdam on Feb 9, 2010 9:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think this was already addressed elsewhere in this thread
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 9:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
reposting the unfinished discussion from above
Spirals: OK—so your hypothesis is based on Raiders data only which also allows for some exceptions. I wonder if further research will show that Deep South players actually excel in other teams, and not with the Raiders; or that maybe Al, for whatever reason, goes for the suckers among the Deep South players?
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 5:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
.
Blanda: I leave that for someone else. I want to find out what works and does not work for us. by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
.but if it turns out that Al goes for a specific type that buckles under pressure, it would be the Raiders’ problem.
Spirals: Oh, I forgot that Al is a given at this point. Do you think you’ll be able to re-educate him?
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mikesd1981: It would be an interesting study To be honest I’m surprised a sportswriter hasn’t done it yet.
Win, Lose, or Tie, Raiders til I die!
by mikesd1981 on Feb 8, 2010 6:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
.
Spirals: well, that’s what I am calling for by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 9:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not sure how this remark is on point
but if it turns out that Al goes for a specific type that buckles under pressure, it would be the Raiders’ problem.
Handling pressure is a nice topic but never considered under the DS theme in play now.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting theory but...
I think it’s just bad personnel decisions for the most part. We know about Jamarcus but who’s to say McFadden would not excel in a different system with better blocking for example. Also, Carlise is not that bad a lineman. We can point fingers at any linemen who get penalties (and they all do at some point). You’re nuts if you think Seymour is a failure. He’s the only guy worth his salary on that DL.
The deep south is serious about junior level football. They coach those kids from an early age so odds are if you look at other teams and their players, there would be a big difference with what the Raiders do with their talent. It’s a problem, we don’t develop our players as we need to.
by Al's Wingman on Feb 8, 2010 9:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
But during the same time period many excellent players who are contributing were brought in
and they were not from the DS. So, why the anomaly? It’s seems too much of a coincidence not to be examined. This obviously requires a larger sample to determine the pervasiveness of this phenomena.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's an idea - why don't the Raiders draft players that can actually, you know, play?
As for the South, Ken Stable was from Alabama, and Ray Guy from Mississippi. Those guys were very very good at football.
Hey Al, just go away, baby.
by doctorK on Feb 8, 2010 9:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
yes, that's the issue
how do you determine with a reasonable certainty that a guy can actually play?
by Spirals galore on Feb 8, 2010 9:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As for Kenny, you will notice in the poll that I exempted Alabama. As for Ray Guy, it depends on your
definition of a football player. There has never been a punter inducted into the HOF and many do not consider the that specialist position as essentially within the category of “football player”. While I appreciate the irony, that’s just how specialists are perceived. There is only one field goal kicker per se in the HOF and Senerud [sic] has been eclipsed since then … so why aren’t there any more inductees? (rhetorical)
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2010 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ray Guy was a tremendous football player
At Southern Miss, he was also a safety. When the Raiders drafted him, he asked Madden if he could play safety as a pro. Madden said yes, but he was not being exactly truthful (he didn’t want to risk that fantastic leg of Guy’s). Guy also could’ve been a QB (Madden said he could kneel down at the 50 yard line and throw passes into the end zone), and was a good baseball pitcher.
As for excluding Alabama from the “Deep South”, I don’t think you can get any more “Deep South” culturally than Alabama.
Hey Al, just go away, baby.
by doctorK on Feb 9, 2010 8:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on whether you're considering all DS unique characteristics or only the better ones
If Alabama is the aristocratic state of Deep South 5, then that would refer to the noble characteristics (virtues) of DS society without including the DS negative traits. The word aristocrat is derived from the Greek “Arete” ( ἀρετή) which originally meant manly courage – which was the most highly prized of virtues. So when you say,
As for excluding Alabama from the "Deep South", I don’t think you can get any more "Deep South" culturally than Alabama.
… are you including all uniquely DS traits – the bad as well as the good?
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
MAN
Raiders need to Draft every player from UC Davis for the next 5 years cuz that’s where I’m going. U can’t fail with that formula ( ;
"The Silver and Black are Back" -Greg Papa 2002 AFC Championship game
by nishal26 on Feb 8, 2010 10:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Go Aggies
Class of 2005 myself.
I'm in the smallest of minorities, but I'm still a big supporter of JaMarcus Russell.
by LiveAdam on Feb 9, 2010 5:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Texas A&M is a great source of football players and many Aggies became Great Raiders
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool
Let’s draft all Texas A&M players now because a few guys had great careers with us!
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They seem to be uniformly hard workers and tough
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 5:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh
They’re not very good, you know, as a team. I don’t know how many guys you’d want to draft from there.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong Aggies
Nishal and I are talking about the UC Davis Aggies.
I'm in the smallest of minorities, but I'm still a big supporter of JaMarcus Russell.
by LiveAdam on Feb 9, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Raiders
need to draft for “fire” and talent over “40” times regardless of where these guys were raised. I do agree that money is ruining some of these players, maybe we need contracts based on performance with a set base salary and performance incentives.
by rambis64 on Feb 9, 2010 9:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Kudos to you Blanda
for coming up with such a thought provoking topic, and the continued follow-up.
Myself being a Pac-10 follower, I would like to see us get more guys for out west (except sc as I stated before), because the conference has some of the best coaches in college football and play pro-style offense and defenses. The development of these players in this system along with the strong academics of the conference creates solid pro’s, but get buried by the East coast media bias which is all over the SEC.
No more raining on BN's rainy parade, they took their ball and went home, lmao.
by S Jay Bruin on Feb 9, 2010 11:58 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The East Coast bias serves only one useful purpose - gamble against their inflated pet teams
Two of our best payers are from the Pac-10, i.e. Cal
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
After much thought on this subject: here is where I'm at:
Blanda has a point. For some reason players from the Deep South Do NOT seem to be doing well in the Oakland Raider system.
And what is that system?
The Raiders draft based on athletic ability, with the idea that they can teach these players the basics of the game and that they will outperform slower and less athletic “Football PLayers” over time.
The Raiders are also a player FIRST organization. Al has always put the utmost faith in his players and has NEVER been one to ride a player. If they get on his bad side, he just makes them disappear.
The Deep South is seen as a laid back Community that is pretty much unto itself and even had their own language.
It could be that the Oakland Raider System allows these players to be too laid back and does NOT push them to greatness.
I’d think that the Oakland System is better for veterans than rookies, as it depends on the player to have already developed a strong work ethic, or having just been born with it.
It is not a fact that the Raiders and the Deep South don’t work, but, a good case is being made for either the system to change or for the Raiders to avoid players from the Deep South.
This leads me to a point that I will make in my next article: Should the Raiders hire a sports psychologist to diagnose the type of player that best fits thier mold and then interview players that they are considering drafting.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 2:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
good idea for an article
I just found this on sports psychology with focus on football:
http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Mental_Performance_Index
and also this:
http://www.mentalperformanceindex.com/
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice, thanks spirals
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing, myself, Saint. The interview needs to be a more important aspect of our hiring
and last year was a step in the right direction for that, so let’s hope it remains true this year! It’s supposedly why we didn’t take Michael Crabtree.
I know many will jump on me for this, but I believe we dodged a bullet, and remain strong in that.
Don’t get me wrong, folks; I’ve criticized using our number 7 to take DHB. I’ve also defended him, and remain confident he’ll grow into an elite, and know also that many are ready to give up on him, and just blast us for even taking him. I can’t wait for him to prove them all wrong.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 9, 2010 8:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This psychologist who developed the Mental Performance Index
predicted that the Raiders will lose to the Tampa Bay based on psychological observations of players’ behavior during the individual plays.
I love the way we all pursue this!
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 8:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+ 1
There are (at least) two sides to most problems and the Raiders need to understand themselves better.
Whoever this psychologist eventually is, he better have is head on.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 8:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Deep South
The Deep South is seen as a laid back Community that is pretty much unto itself and even had their own language.
I don’t think they’re laid back. Those guys eat, sleep and breathe football down there. It’s like religion to them.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 2:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I though they eat slept and breathed Noodleing and Gigging? ;)
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No
All of the colleges down there are serious and those institutions are all about football. They all are.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sources?
Are you serious? You don’t watch college football?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if everyone in the Deep South crammed themselves into the stadiums
so that you could confirm that everyone is a football fanatic that does not prove that the players (the one’s who actually participate in the hitting and blocking – ya know) are as dedicated at excelling as fans are to vicariously consume other people play the game.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oh--watching is what you meant:)
Seriously, Rated-R—the point is whether or not a certain lifestyle encourages certain types of people to behave in a certain way, unless they are motivated to behave otherwise.
I personally think that JR, for instance, may end up thriving under a different management, or under Hue Jackson, who seems to care about connecting with players. (I go back and forth on JR—some mornings I think he is a hopeless oaf, other times my heart softens.)
Saint made an excellent point—it may be perhaps that the cultural environment with the Raiders leaves some young players with still fluid work ethics disoriented.
I understand that you have a problem with Blanda’s overall hypothesis—that for some reason, players from the Deep South don’t seem to work well under the Raiders. This is what we are discussing here, going back and forth and seeking understanding. Such a discussion is much better than sweeping one-liners and categorical statements (of which there are plenty here sometimes:)
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Drafting
… that for some reason, players from the Deep South don’t seem to work well under the Raiders.
Look at our record over the past seven seasons. The Raiders have a problem with drafting in general, not drafting players from certain universities. There isn’t a lifestyle issue.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 4:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and you are absolutely convinced you are right?
then what’s the point of participating in a discussion where people are willing to explore a direction you consider erroneous?
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But, 7 of our Top 10 Highest paid players are from the DS:
AND they are underperforming, by a large margin.
Take into account that the other 3 in the Top 10 are Nnamdi, Lechler and Gallery who are performing very well and there is more fuel on the fire.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 4:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Rated-R may be feeling lost
in this jungle of comments:)
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What do you think about that stat?
7 of our top 10 highest paid players are from 5 states that represent the Deep South, and the other three highest paid players in the Top 10 are Pro-Bowlers (Gallery would have been this year, had he not gotten injured, imo)
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 4:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he was pro bowl caliber at guard this year
often making up for his horrible cohorts…
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 9, 2010 8:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Too Bad
But, 7 of our Top 10 Highest paid players are from the DS:
AND they are underperforming, by a large margin.
Learn to sign and draft better players. Maybe Al Davis needs to scout players for a change instead of just picking them on a whim.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you don't really address what other people say, do you
listening to what’s in your own head only
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 5:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
I’m listening to myself and therefore can’t hear you.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i knew it
now it’s recorded.
your posts are verging on the juvenile, really.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 5:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The 2008 Draft was decent
Do you really consider Tyvon Branch, Trevor Scott and Chaz Schiens to be poor choices?!
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All From Small "Non Traditional Football" Schools, Play Withy Heart
and were chosen at the end of the draft. 4th Round on down.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
You’re going to single out one draft class?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 4:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you seem to have a problem with Blanda, don't you
Your answers are very reactive, btw, and you don’t seem interested in conversation.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 5:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Right
I’m not really interested because he doesn’t make sense and makes generalizations because we suck at evaluating talent.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 5:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but does your reasoning go like this:
if fans are enthusiastic, “eat, sleep and breathe football down there” then the players who these fans cheer on will have a commensurable love for the game that translates into their play and will to become great players. Is that what you think?
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 4:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No
SEC football is considered the best for a reason.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 4:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Football Talent
It’s not for signing, dancing, coloring or drawing. It’s for their talent on the field. You’d know if you watched college football.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
high falutin talk
really, Rated-R, calm down and become less adversarial.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
He wanted a reason and I gave a reason.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 5:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but you come across as obsessed with Blanda
just take deep breath—how are you going to go through life if you get so upset (an impression created by your posts) at everyone you disagree with?
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 5:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
unless you are just goofing around and pretending
then I’ll understand
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 5:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I’m obsessed with Blanda. You have figured me out. He’s the only person I ever disagree with and I am very, very, very upset. I don’t know how I will go on with my life.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well--what about your disagreement with Saint earlier?
I think you upped the ante too much—it’s time to back off.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 5:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No
I’ll comment wherever I see fit. Thank you for your concern, though.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 5:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well--this blog is ripe with soap operas then
Where is Pavarotti to sing the punch lines.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 5:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Vanderbilt is a tough customer and Old Miss is loaded
Oh, you must be referring to Kentucky or Tennessee, your former coaches team or Georgia with the same mediocre record. Do you realize how many young men go to Florida who don’t live anywhere close to it just because it’s the most drafted from college? Arkansa and Auburn, so what.
I agree Alabama is consistently good and turns out quality pros; I exempted them from the boycott.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 5:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
SEC Colleges
Do you realize how many young men go to Florida who don’t live anywhere close to it just because it’s the most drafted from college?
Then why are you only highlighting colleges and singling them out? No one that went to other schools could have grown up in Mississippi, Arkansas and Georgia and what not?
Also, Tennessee has had a few mediocre years lately. Ole Miss has been good. Georgia had been good apart from this past year. Arkansas and Auburn don’t appear to have great records and that’s because of the competition they face. They can hang. Arkansas, for example, had to face Alabama, Florida, LSU and Ole Miss this year. All four were ranked at the time with three of four teams inside the top 15 and two being top-five teams.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if a team is winning like a loaded Florida team,
there’s no guarantee that any player on that team will continue excelling in the pros … for a number of reasons. What happens for instance when a player buys into “winning is everything” and they have always been on winning teams (Jr. High, High School, College) and then they get drafted by the Lions or the Browns? If they do not have a personal standard that is not dependent on the games outcome but primarily by how well they did, i.e. 100% effort, then they have the Raider mind (that “mind” is why we have so many come from behind victories in our history). The other kind of mind, one fixed on winning (or money or something else) won’t be able to motivate anyone to give100% after a long succession of loses because they’ll rationalize that whatever they do won’t change the bad outcome.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 5:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I realize that Al like to say, "just win, baby"
and that phrase has been associated with the Raiders.
But, I don’t believe guys like Jim Otto, George Blanda, Hendricks, Upshaw or Casper bought into that too much. They were putting their souls into all 60 minutes and the wins came (just like the money and the rings and the rest).
So, getting the values clear and straight is very important.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The High Schools too:
Maybe that is why their inflated egos don’t translate too well to the Raiders. Here their egos and waste lines get even bigger.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN came out with a top 32 draft ranking; these DS players are listed
Joe Haden* CB Florida 96
Derrick Morgan* DE Ga. Tech 95
C.J. Spiller RB Clemson 94
Carlos Dunlap* DE Florida 93
Brandon Spikes ILB Florida 91
Maurkice Pouncey C Florida 90
Let other teams acquire these leisure obsessed catfish eaters
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 3:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I want Brian Bulaga from Iowa
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Current draftees are far more exciting than FAs - reading about them today has not
inspired me in the least. Only Al can look into a 2 1/2 star rated FA and see the 5 star embryo for him to incubate. Al is a midwife bringing new life out of an old bloated belly.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you could take a look at players from the Deep South:
That play for a team that is the opposite of the Raider Organization. Task masters that make their build hills in their own training camp in order to punish them into shape…A team like I don’t know, the 49ers…
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
After a quick glance:
The Niners have Frank Gore AND Patrick Willis as well as Takeo Spikes from the Deep South AND they have performed very well under task masters like Nolan and Singletary.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe JaMarcus would be an All-Pro for the Niners?
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 3:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Frank Gore is from Coral Gables Florida and played college for Miami these places
are not in the torpor belt (Deep South). Also, Willis is from Tennessee and although its in the South, Tennessee is not considered as Deep South. Takeo Spikes might support your sub-theory, but his first name suggests a Japanesse cultural influence.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No--Takeo Spikes is not Japanese
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 3:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
pardon me--misread
you were talking about Japanese cultural influence. Yes, his mother watched Madama Butterfly during gestation.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 3:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And he is a HUGE fan of Edi "Mommy"
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So, are we talking about where they were reared or where they went to school?
Because the list that you provided states the College that each player attended, not where they were reared.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Some personalities are more receptive to the corrosive Deep South's influence
There are four possibilities; a corrosive index [CI] from 1 to 9 is assigned
1. Someone is neither reared ‘there’ nor plays college ball ‘there’ [CI-1]#
2. Someone is reared ‘there’ but does not play college ball ‘there’ [CI-7]
3. Someone is not reared ‘there’ but plays college ball ‘there’ [CI-5]
4. Someone is reared and plays college ball ‘there’ [CI-9]*
- not ‘0’ because similar corrosive influences may be ambient in that culture, albeit to a much lesser degree.
- not ‘10’ because of the unpredictability factor always possible with individuals
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 4:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
Also, Willis is from Tennessee and although its in the South, Tennessee is not considered as Deep South.
You’re just picking and choosing what you want to consider what. The guy went to the University of Mississippi.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
now we, whom you consider wrong, are exploring a further avenue of thought
If you are interested, read on with an open mind. If not, discede.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 4:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What?
You guys are exploring a further avenue of thought? That means you can pick and choose who you consider to be from where?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 4:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We have a problem on our roster, RRS, and you don't seem to think
its important enough to invest some of your thinking ability
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 8:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Roster
I know it has problems. It’s why we haven’t won much lately.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 8:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The CI in that category is a 5 (so it is something that can be overcome, e.g.
Mario Henderson
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 4:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Interestingly enough:
Even Henderson was seen as a slacker until something clicked for him.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
on a more positive note, catfish is among the few sustainable fish species left, and therefore responsible on the part of the eater
and “eco-conscious,” as it were…
But I’ll leave the postives there, and hope they are taken elsewhere!
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 9, 2010 8:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Derrick Morgan = Venrnon Gholston.
The RaiderLaker
by JaggerJaw on Feb 9, 2010 3:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
How?
Gholston played in a 3-4 and Morgan played in a 4-3.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Feb 9, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Its just my very own Bust prediction.(if he gets drafted high,dont let it be us)
The RaiderLaker
by JaggerJaw on Feb 9, 2010 3:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not picking a player because he is from the “Deep South”? Are you kidding me?
by agoodolpr1ck on Feb 9, 2010 5:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Because Robert Gallery is from the “Deep South”? And how exactly is McFadden a mistake? His collegiate BACK UP has flourished on a good team. But yes the best college football players in the nation are all terrible.
by KarstenDD on Feb 9, 2010 6:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
he was a slim chance; special case. Carlisle sux Green Sux replace them and we win games.
Plus he failed at LT but he refused to give up and reedemed himself. Dmac failed as a RB! he is more of a RB receiver or wide receiver thats where he has a home run ability. dmac is not a complete lost cause just at running in between tackles he sux (gets brought down with a touch).
The RaiderLaker
by JaggerJaw on Feb 9, 2010 7:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
im sure somebody has said this
but its a god damn dirty shame how little zach miller is making
by tyrell on Feb 9, 2010 6:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
This post is ridiculous and I'm disappointed that it's been moved to the front page.
Correlation not equaling causation is not the least of this posts problems.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 8:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
you could elaborate on the post's other problems
The post certainly elicited a lot of thoughtful comments, whether people agreed with the premise or not. To dismiss it outright without having read through the comments may not be the best idea.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 8:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dismissing an entire region because of vast generalizations, moving targets, dismissing good players from the south and ignoring the bad players from other regions.
All problems with this post. As far as it eliciting thoughtful comments I mostly see Sons of Blanda trolling his own topic.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 8:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
did you read through all the comments?
If so, what did you think of Saint’s and Brhynno’s contributions?
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And, claiming this is proof of a systemic "sickness" in southern players but only using the Raiders as a data point is absurd.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
clearly you read the beginning only
and speculate on the rest.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 8:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I read the entire post and most of the comments
Both Saint’s and brhynno’s comments are bast on generalizations and in brhynno’s case annecdotal evidence.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 8:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
give specific instances of Saint's generalizations and Brhynno's use of anecdotal evidence
Specific, not sweeping, please.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 8:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure.
The Deep South is seen as a laid back Community that is pretty much unto itself and even had their own language.
This is a generalization by Saint.
I have family from the deep south, and I believe there’s definitely something to it. I believe Jamarcus is perhaps the perfect example: when you come from a small town, the ideals are no doubt different for the most part (always exceptions of course); i.e. fishing is generally a high priority activity.
Not like ambitious fishing, either, like Marlin or Tuna, or Snook and Redfish on the East Coast Bays of Fla, but worm fishin’ for catfish in the local hole, watching your pole in the water, whilst taking in the scenery. It’s generally quite okay to spend the entire day doing exactly that.
I find my brother, who remains a fireman in the great "deep south" state we know as Louisiana, to be much less concerned with becoming the best fireman there ever was;
These comments by bhrynno are generalizations built off annecdotal evidence of his own family.
And thats fine, they’re just comments. Saint is clearly talking as he thinks in his comment and bhrynno is contributing to a discussion already in place. But putting this article on the front page does this site a disservice.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 9:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
slow down
Saint says that the Deep South “is seen” as laid back, which is what all sources say as well. That is not a generalization; rather, your label of this particular comment based on the above excerpt is a generalization. Btw, what do you think of the rest of Saint’s comment?
Brhynno’s is a thought provoking observation—two brothers raised in different cultural setting develop opposite traits. If you don’t find this interesting, too bad for you.
Tell me—how old are you?
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 9:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, Saint says himself that Southerners being laid back is a generalization.
I would agree with Saint that Al puts players first and that this frequently leads to the inmates running the assylum. I do not believe that this is because players from the south take the inch Al gives them and turns it into a mile of lazy.
You may have found brhynno’s observation interesting, I never said it wasn’t, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t anecdotal evidence.
None of this matters because regardless of common generalizations or personal experience this post is blatantly factually incorrect. There are tons of southern players earning lots of money that excel at football as well as other sports. Sons is trying to excuse Al’s inability to evaluate talent by scapegoating players from a particular region.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 9:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
JaMarcus Russell sure does thake that inch
The Raiders are the ONLY organization on the planet Earth that would have let him start when he was overweight AND not putting time in in the film room. Period.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 9:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And the Raiders are the only organization that would have drafted him first overall.
I’m not disagreeing that Russell is unmotivated or lazy or bad. I’m saying that using where he was born as the reason and suggesting that other players from the region in which he was raised should be boycotted is nothing short of stupid.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 9:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not Boycotted:
BUT, if you had two players that were equally rated and one was from Iowa and the Other A Game Cock, I may lean toward the Hawkeye, when drafting for the Raiders.
I had a conversation with a friend of mine from Mississippi today and she agreed that if you don’t a person from the deep south, they are likely to take your money and chill. Those were her words.
It is all foreign to me, so this has been an interesting conversation.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if you don't ride a person from the South and you give them millions of dollars
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 9:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well if your friend from Mississippi said it then it must be true.
Because she’s an authority on all people in the South and all people in the South are exactly the same.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 9:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What does my age or where I'm from have to do with Sons post?
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 9:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
b/c you sound like many of my freshmen
during their first semester. The question about where you live now was sheer curiosity.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 10:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a 26 year old med student in Seattle.
None of that has anything to do with the problems in Sons post.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 10:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
glad you engaged with it
and may you always be right in your diagnoses:)
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 10:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
actually, this is a post calling attention to Al's inadequate drafting
in which sense you and Blanda are in agreement (although he wouldn’t perhaps put it as bluntly)
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 9:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sons is trying to excuse Al’s inability to evaluate talent by scapegoating players from a particular region.
And you know that for a fact? Or is this your interpreation?
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That was the impression I got, maybe I'm wrong.
Whatever the motive the point is still wrong.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 9:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that's better
Again—the post called attention to the inadequacy of Al’s hiring procedures, which result in paying too much money to players who don’t produce. The statistics are there, Blanda posed a provocative question, and people started discussing it. Blanda has a wicked sense of humor, as do many other people here, so it is easy to get lost, trying to figure out when they are joking and when not.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 9:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Please allow me to respond
You may have noticed that we have some deficiencies on our Offense and Defense. At any rate, we do. Players have been identified who play those very same positions, follow? And guess what, pete, they are all from the Deep South!
Here are their names and positions.
Green ROT
Carlisle ROG
Dick DE/DT
Warren DT
Kelly DT
Johnson CB
Russell QB
These players are not only playing poorly but are among the 10 highest paid, pete.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 9:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That is not a statistic, that is a list.
You are extrapolating that list into a generalization about millions of people from a specific region while ignoring all other examples to the contrary. Based off that extrapolation you’re advocating a hilariously poor philosophy on team building.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 10:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
10% of the states (5 into 50) represent 33%
of our Roster and ~1/3 (7 of 22) of our starters.
These players are identified as our least productive. You deny there is a problem? Or do you deny the problem is limited to the Oakland Raiders and these unique men from your beloved Deep South?
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 10:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're making a completely unfounded leap.
1/3 of our starters are from the South. Our team is bad. Therefore, players from the South are bad.
This ignores that the best player on our team is from Louisiana and that the rest of the team is also bad and from mostly outside the south.
Also, that’s a terrible way to look at what is a completely irrelevent stat. Each state is not responsible for 2% of the NFL population. For example, Texas puts far more players in the NFL than say South Dakota. So to even start to correlate the region of these players to the success of a team, a stupid idea in the first place, you’d have to compare the percentage of southern players on the Raiders to the percentage of southern players in the NFL.
Explain how the Saints can be successful with 22 of their 53 players coming from the south. If there is any truth to this idea than it would be evident across the NFL, not just the Raiders.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 11:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Premise is that Deep South players
fail in Oakland. I do not have the time to analyze the other 31 NFL teams to see how they suffer from the Deep South malaise.
As for another of your spewages
You’re making a completely unfounded leap. 1/3 of our starters are from the South. Our team is bad. Therefore, players from the South are bad.
First, its not the South (which has many more than 5 states) it’s the Deep South, i.e. a demographically homogeneous culture that is recognized by historians and sociologist. And I do not just look at the scoreboard at the end of the game and note that we less points (like some people obviously do) I go to the games and watch the players and read the stats and look at videos; I can tell you that those 7 positions that are occupied by the 7 players from the Deep South are our worst. Moreover, I had already identified those positions as vulnerabilities “weak links” before this inspired insight ever occurred to me.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 11:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So you can't provide any reason why this only affects Oakland.
You can’t provide a reason why players from the deep south are fine elsewhere. You can’t provide an explanation why our best player is from this despised region. You can’t be bothered to try to explain any of this. You use subjective means for evaluating talent and assume you’re the final say on these means.
And yet you advocate the Raiders avoiding an entire region, a region generally considered a pipeline for pro talent, based on your observation that some of our players from the south are bad.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 11:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who is our this player you refer to as our best?
You can’t provide an explanation why our best player is from this despised region.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 11:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If by chance you refer to Asomuha (I'm not certain, given your other statements that you mignt not be referring to Russell
Asomugha was raised in Los Angeles, California. He attended and played high school basketball and football at Leuzinger High School in Lawndale, California and Bishop Montgomery High School in Torrance, California before transferring to and graduating from Narbonne High School in Harbor City, California.
[edit] College career. Asomugha went to college at the University of California, Berkeley
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 11:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm done with you
come back when you have more education
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 11:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I went and got some more education for you
Tim Brown, Lester Hayes, Cliff Branch, Vann McElroy, Chester McGlockton, Derrick Burgess, Charlie Garner, Clem Daniels, Bo Jackson, Kenny Stabler, and Warren Wells. All were born and or went to college in the deep south and were pro bowlers with the Raiders. Thats not a comprehensive list of successful deep south players either.
by RaiderPete on Feb 10, 2010 12:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll respond below where there's more space
But you really should read the thread before popping-off.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 10, 2010 7:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
seriously, RaiderPete
coming in like this and shooting your mouth off is unwise, not to mention disrespectful.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 8:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This post doesn't deserve any respect. It's poorly thought out, falls prey to basic fallacies and bashes an entire region of people based on faulty stereotypes.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 8:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey dy RaiderPete! what part a dixis is yal from?
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
State. What does this have to do with anything?
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 9:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am just curious about you.
Where in Washington?
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 9:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
never mind
Washington is a small unincorporated town in Adams County, Mississippi, United States, close to Natchez.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 9:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's really disappointing that a troll is an author for this site.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 9:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he is kidding you
Boys sometimes have this weird sense of humor.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 9:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He is kidding Pete:
This is an interesting topic though. wouldn’t you agree. It takes a lot of things into account.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 9:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't bash them all, in my eyes:
It just says that they MAY be a bad fit for OUR oraganization and Al keeps OVER paying them.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 9:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
it doesn't at all
I think his first comment was hastily posted, and then he started looking for stuff to keep it up.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 9:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't do anything to prove it beyond what I've already said.
I read the post and most of the comments before posting my own. If you don’t believe me thats fine but I’ve more than backed up my point. Which is more than I can say for Sons who’s only tried to make the discussion about me instead of back up his post.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 9:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It is absolutely bashing them.
I believe the Deep South’s distinct, unique and relatively monolithic culture is responsible for producing players whose performance is not driven by the right motive.
…I believe the Deep South’s sickness is essentially a perversion of motivation – an apathy for excellence. The pure desire to be a great player – for its own sake – just isn’t one of the attributes imbued into Dixie’s young men – as proven by, at least, Oakland’s experience.
I don’t know whether it’s laziness, ignorance, or complacency once these bible-belters are handed more money than they’ve ever imagined, but there is something’s off.
Let other teams acquire these leisure obsessed catfish eaters
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It looks like a Raider fan who is pissed at 7 of the Top 10 Paid:
Underachievers blasting everything about them.
“as proven by, at least, Oakland’s experience.”
I know Pete, it takes a while to sink in, but, with Blanda’s vents against the Deep South excused this is a pretty interesting human experiment.
But, now I have to go build another website for my son’s school’s fundraiser!!!
You are all invited to his Fashion Show on the 28th of March at the Waterfront Hotel in Oakland. The admission is $20 and all of the money goes to the School of the Arts.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good luck with the fashion show.
I understand being upset with the Raiders, I feel that as much as anyone. But advocating a point as poorly supported and thought out as this doesn’t fix anything. If the Raiders were actually to follow this line of thinking they’d deprive themselves of a huge portion of talented players.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 9:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks man, we are trying to send the kids to NYC and then Scotland
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 9:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
as opposed to the other kind
seriously, your writing is one generalization after another. You are one lazy bastard.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 10:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here is my last comment on this post. These are the major problems I see with the post:
Correlation does not equal causation first and foremost.
The basis of this post is a generalization about the motivation of southerners. This generalization is not backed up by any facts at all. Maybe the greatest running back in the NFL, Walter Payton, grew up in Mississippi. Jackie Robinson was from Georgia.
The deep south is determined arbitrarily. Sons provides two maps, one in the post and one in the comments that include different regions.
Hilariously the second map Sons of Blanda provides includes Kentucky. Where did George Blanda go to college at?
And before Sons can tell me that Blanda wasn’t from Kentucky so he doesn’t count, this post includes a moving target. Sons includes the bad players he wants included by saying that sometimes it matters if you grew up in the south, sometimes it matters if you went to college in the south. He excludes the good players, such as Blanda, by using these arbitrary means.
Sons mentions Cooper Carlisle as one of the examples of bad players from the deep south yet Cooper was born in Missouri and went to college in the "good part" of Florida. By Son’s own standards Cooper doesn’t belong.
Except Alabama? Why except Alabama? Because it doesn’t support Son’s argument.
This list doesn’t include possible reasons for poor play. For example, Jamarcus has a bad work ethic. But JaMarcus has always had a bad work ethic, it was one of the knocks on him before he was drafted. Or, Tommy Kelly is horrifically overpaid. But is Tommy Kelly worse than he was before he cashed in on his mediocre play? No, Tommy Kelly is the same player he ever was. Chris Johnson was a seventh round draft pick who was cut three times in three years before landing with the Raiders, is it any surprise he’s not great?
Why are bad players from other regions not included? Gallery, DHB, Mike Mitchell? Why don’t we create an elaborate explanation for their poor play as well?
Why are only the Raiders used as proof of this supposed pervasion of motivation? Why doesn’t Peyton Manning also crumble under this sickness of the south? How did Jonathan Vilma just win a super bowl? Why has Andy Pettitte won 5 world series rings despite being born in Louisiana and growing up in Texas?
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Deep South is not determined arbitrarily. The reasons maps vary is because the
criteria that goes into determining what geography is encompassed is debated among historians and sociologists. All however, include the 5 states mentioned as well as northern Florida. This has been explained before.
Yes, there are exceptions, there always will be when the human spirit can freely determine its own motivations and values and not passively embrace those imposed by the predominant culture he is thrown into. (Heidegger) This has been explained before.
George Blanda is from Younwood Pennsylvania and played in Kentucky which is not considered Deep South (This was not mentioned before because a True Raider would know already know it).
Alabama is excluded because, with regards to football at least, it is somewhat of an anomaly. This has been explained before and a theory was offered that perhaps the virtues and not the vices of the Deep South have been fostered more in Alabama than in the other five four states which comprise the Deep South.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 11:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You say these things have been explained before but I don't see these explanations anywhere.
I’d particularly like to see the explanation for Alabama. You can’t throw out data just because it doesn’t fit your hypothesis.
by RaiderPete on Feb 9, 2010 11:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here and I didn't lay claim to stats for Alabama only a theory of why it's anomolistic
Depends on whether you’re considering all DS unique characteristics or only the better ones If Alabama is the aristocratic state of Deep South 5, then that would refer to the noble characteristics (virtues) of DS society without including the DS negative traits. The word aristocrat is derived from the Greek "Arete" ( ἀρετή) which originally meant manly courage – which was the most highly prized of virtues. So when you say, " As for excluding Alabama from the “Deep South”, I don’t think you can get any more “Deep South” culturally than Alabama." … are you including all uniquely DS traits – the bad as well as the good? by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 11:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Saint is on to something about how this post has evolved: Post on the importance of the interview, and a thorough investigation into what motivates the player
primarily, of course. No one is suggesting not considering players from these schools; rather, pointing out our track record doing so.
I remain puzzled as to why so many are clearly offended. They should look deeply at what upsets them, and come to a deeper understanding by communicating it. I’d love to hear it.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 9, 2010 8:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not too confident that a shrink coming in and spending a couple of hours with a serious
prospect would work. I’m not doubting that it could work but it would require an exceptional student of people / human nature. As a backup, I would feel better to have our ‘true Raider’ types, e.g. Branch, Scott, Zack, Janikowski, spend an afternoon or evening with the prospect getting to know them. I base my confidence in the latter psychological assessment from the principle that ‘likes are attracted to likes’ just as you are able to recognize a good surfer after watching them move around for a few minutes, our quality football players will recognize what kind of football mentality the prospect has.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 9:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. Is it me
or are we stuck on bold here?
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 9, 2010 9:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fully Bolded
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 9:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Insiders in an organization are frequently like frogs put in boiling water, they don’t even know they’re getting boiled.
by Spirals galore on Feb 9, 2010 9:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm talking about fooball players knowing football players -
this ain’t some Hayward Washington frog jumping contest
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 9:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Step away from the Big Foot Ale: ;)
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 9:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
thought it was only Gatorade today
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2010 9:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, that was yesterday bro...
Tonight it is Peligrino…And Makers!!!
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 10:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Double fisting forty ouncers, isn't he?
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 9, 2010 9:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Methinks!!!
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 9, 2010 10:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Blanda's racism continues...
It’s highly commendable that some of the smarter people on this site, LiveAdam, RaiderPete and Rated-R Superstar have totally exposed you and your misplaced, faulted and so-called “hypothesis”. All 3 of them put you in a corner of which you were unable to “explain” your way out of, except to create even more generalizations with your highly anti-empirical, myopic diatribe.
The 3 of them exposed your misplaced methodology calling you out for generalizing and using your selective data, but I fully see the innuendo here and while they may not say directly, I will: your argument is racial. I’m not saying you are a bigot, I’m saying based upon your positing of this kind of theory, you are a covert racist. Once again, in all of your comments (i.e. trolling), you have yet to cite an example of a non-black, lazy, overpaid and under performing Raider originating from the “deep south”. Please don’t bring up Cooper Carlisle again, as he was neither drafted by the Raiders, nor could be considered overpaid and under performing. He may well be “under-performing” and “overpaid” now, as you see it, but that has to do with age and injury, not laziness due to “heaps of money being thrown at him”. He was quite good with the Broncos who drafted him, so you still need a better example.
What you are really saying, along with all of your disciples, but don’t want to put in those words, is that black football players that come from the poor, underdeveloped “deep south”, that have “heaps of money” thrown at them, become lazy, fat and under-perform, especially when they get drafted by the Oakland Raiders. That is just absurd and is racial profiling until you can come up with some contrary examples, otherwise this is just an exercise of the hyperbolic part of your ego!
I’ll give you two examples from the Raiders roster that bust up your so-called hypothesis:
1. Stanford Routt: born and raised in Austin, Texas. Result: overpaid and under- performing as a pro. Routt is just not very good at football, which has nothing to do with where he was raised or went to school.
2. Chris Morris: born in Toledo, Ohio. Result: slightly overpaid and definitely under-performing. Morris is just not very good at football, which again has nothing to do with where he was born.
Both of the above players are not good and are under-achievers. One is black and one is white and both aren’t from the “deep south”. That alone destroys any foundation for your so-called theory, if it ever had one in the first place. But, oh well, you managed to get 400 comments, which is a trophy for a troll.
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 10, 2010 3:53 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Until you can make a distinction between cultural and racial differences and the distinction between body and mind
you will never understand the significance of this treatise. Your knee-jerk response to play the race card is wearisome and, for too long, has suffocated any positive efforts to address cultural problems by blanketing them with a racial “off limits” taboo..
The human being is made to the image and likeness of God, would you agree with at least that much? If not, we have nothing further to say to each other. But if you do agree, then you must realize also that the color of anyone’s skin is out of the question because Spirit has no color or other accidental qualities. The mind is the image and to the degree the mind and its contents are good it is in the likeness of God. So, this post is about those factors that form the contents of the mind (thoughts, values, attitudes, desires) and how culture may affect that content and bring it closer or further away from the excellence, that is, the likeness of God … which, in the context of the general theme of this blog site, is translated into bodily actions on the football field. This is all about the mind – which is the form of the body that plays the game.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 10, 2010 8:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What is God?
And of course that will be according to you and your totally subjective point of view, which of then also does not mean it to be so whether you believe it or not. It would also be nice if you could give an agnostic answer to that question as well.
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 10, 2010 8:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Emperically, It would be a conditioning and environment argument having to do with:
What goes in, comes out.
As far as spiritually, almost everyone in teh world believes in some form of God. Whether it be “nous” or Jah or Jehova, Allah, The Well of souls, Shiva or what have you. The belief is that teh souls of humanity are in tune with a higher power, not a bunch of chemicals ramming into eachother. In that case, the chemical one, see the Emperical answer.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 10, 2010 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
God is the Supreme and Infinite Being who is all knowing all powerful all present and personal
Agnostically speaking, I would give Anselm’s definition, “God is that than which nothing greater can be thought.”
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 10, 2010 9:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, because you say it, so it must be so?
You should of at least cited Huxley instead of Anselm and even at that, you only cited the fragment that fits your position. Kind of like you whole post. Do you really want to get into God and spiritual beliefs debate?
Your dogmatic position that permeates this entire post is akin to the zealots of the Inquisition.
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 10, 2010 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What chagrins you, so, DonkeyDominator? I'm perplexed.This is not racist-covertly, overtly, stealthily, or whatsoever
I’m not sure you understand population demographics. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and not explain it, but the factors that find that the physchologies of people from a certain part of this great country we inhabit, are gven to the values, mores, taboos, traditions, and various other economic and social factors that shapes the desires and motivations of the inhabitants; plain and simple.
Do certain players rise above it? Absolutely. Are there exceptions to these rules? Absolutely, but a pattern appears a pattern, as pointed out with the Raiders. They may all share the thing you all said they did: they were all Al’s bad picks at the end of the day. I’ve been lucky enough to visit places all over the U.S., including Canton and Cooperstown, From So Cal. to Maine, NY, Conn., NJ, AL, GA,, LA, TX, AR,NM CA CO, NV, and folks are quite different, and I’m not totally convinced on the theory by any mea
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 11, 2010 2:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not chagrined
But I think that you need to apply some deductive logic here. Allow me to explain.
The worst non-black players ever drafted by the Raiders are, in no particular order:
Todd Marinovich, Marc Wilson, Andrew Walter, Rusty Hilger, Tuiasosopo, Billy Jo Hobert, Bob Buczkowski, Stuart Schweigert, Rob Fredrickson, Tyler Brayton and Curt Marsh. There may be a few more, but this list was kept to rounds 1-3. Everyone of those players could be considered as overpaid and under performing, no matter the size of their salary because they were so bad. Not one of those players are from the “deep south”, pursuant to Blanda’s baseless premise of reasoning.
Now, I have posed this to Blanda numerous times in the comments, where is your list of under performing, fat, lazy, overpaid non-black players from the “deep south”? He has yet to put forth a nary a single name. Why because he can’t, because there isn’t one, which is why this whole exercise is completely stupid and Blanda’s reasoning for this post is the complete antithesis of logic.
Until Blanda comes up with a non-black player drafted by the Raiders from the “deep south”, that meets his criterion and his definition, then this, by deductive logic, cannot be looked at any other way but racial profiling. He chose the benchmark to form his theory and isolated to just the Raiders and just the DS. This is his fault and I am just attacking it as others have here. He should have broadened it to include the entire NFL for this to have any merit. If he were a lawyer, his case would be dismissed as meritless.
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 11, 2010 6:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Instead of focusing only on Blanda's statements and those of his overt critics,
you could perhaps also read other people’s thoughts on the hypothesis.
I am not sure what you mean when you say “deductive logic.” This is an example of deductive reasoning (I took it from the entry on Deductive Reasoning from Wikipedia, since it is easily accessible to all):
All men are mortal
Socrates is a man
(Therefore,) Socrates is mortal.
[…]An argument is valid when it is impossible for both its premises to be true and its conclusion to be false. An argument can be valid even though the premises are false. Note, for example, that the conclusion of the following argument would have to be true if the premises were true, (even though they are, in fact, false):
Everyone who eats steak is a quarterback.
John eats steak.
[Therefore,] John is a quarterback.
The argument is valid, however, not sound. In order for a deductive argument to be sound, the premise must not only be valid, but also must be true as well.
Could you elaborate on the deductive logic you use to conclude that Blanda resorts to racial profiling? Thanks.
by Spirals galore on Feb 11, 2010 7:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe he's attacking the logic of my inductive (not deductive) reasoning
Because, from my deductive argument, if you accept my premises the conclusion does follow. His problem is with my premises.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 11, 2010 7:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This post has everything to do with cultural influences and nothing to do with race
The DS does not have a lock on sloth and misplaced motivation; almost everyone is susceptible to both good and bad influences. Moreover, this is isolated to the Raider’s experience. I realize that initially the post’s scope overreached in the sense that the bite was too large to chew – I have to work and take a tough class on the weekends blah blah, so I can’t devote as much time as I otherwise could to explore the implications of the phenomenal data brought to light from the Raider’s unfortunate experience. But, it does seem that ’Oakland’s’ own culture might be a factor in the matter because, as you pointed out – other NFL organizations are not experiencing ‘the problem’ (my words) as acutely as we are.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 11, 2010 7:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me try to figure out what went on
Your first premise must have been that all Raider players who have deservedly been paid the highest salaries for excellence on the field are both talented and highly motivated.
Then you noted that some current highest-paid Raider players have not shown excellence on the field so far.
Conclusion: Some current highest-paid Raider players must be either untalented or unmotivated.
At this point, the finger is pointed at Al—either he picked up untalented players or he can’t do what he needs to do to keep those otherwise talented players motivated.
Then you noticed that the current highest-paid Raiders who perform badly are all from the Deep South (which is a fluid sociological category), while those who are highest paid but performing well are not from the Deep South. Your hypothesis, explored and refined by most of us here at length, seems to be that at this moment in time (not at all times), there must be a glitch in the Raiders’ mesh with those players who come from the Deep South.
The main objections to your hypothesis seem to be about the inferences you draw about DS culture as a factor in these players’ poor performance so far, particularly because you made a sweeping statement—that the DS is pervaded by apathy when it comes to the desire to excel. The broadness of this statement opened the door to various other inferences, not all of which I agree with.
At this point
by Spirals galore on Feb 11, 2010 9:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It does seem that our organization may be a factor and it was
pointed out (and judicially noticed) that the Raiders’ Org is too lax with player discipline. Many of the DS players go through SEC programs which I believe have intense programs and, I gather, military-like discipline. When someone lacks inner discipline concerning sloth, he may collapse when the external discipline is removed.
Btw, nice abstraction of the underlying reasoning into an extended syllogism (sorites)
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 11, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here is your comment from above and my response to it
I went and got some more education for you Tim Brown, Lester Hayes, Cliff Branch, Vann McElroy, Chester McGlockton, Derrick Burgess, Charlie Garner, Clem Daniels, Bo Jackson, Kenny Stabler, and Warren Wells. All were born and or went to college in the deep south and were pro bowlers with the Raiders. Thats not a comprehensive list of successful deep south players either.by RaiderPete on Feb 10, 2010 12:06 AM PST
Texas A&M and Houston are not in the Deep South (ifn. the Deep South phenomenon isn’t basted on geographic latitude it’s based on the regions where the distinctly DS culture is prevalent ) Lester Hayes has a CI-1. Likewise, Tim Brown has a CI-1, he’s from Dallas Texas and played for Notre Dame. Cliff Branch has a CI-1, he’s from Houston and played for Colorado. Vann McElroy is from Alabama which has been exempted from DS status with regard to the ’corrosive index – same goes for Kenny Stabler and Bo Jackson. *Clem Daniel has a CI-1 he is Texas raised. (clue: Prairie View ain’t anywhere close to the big muddy) Chester McGlockton has a CI-5 he was not raised in the DS but later played college ball there (this is a surmountable impediment, cf. .Mario Henderson). Charlie Garner has a CI-1, he was raised in Virginia and played for Tennessee – neither region is in the Deep South. Warren Wells has a CI-7 and though he was raised in the Deep South he spent time in the Military and played college ball for So. Texas and thereby overcame the adversities of DS influences. Derrick *Burgess has a CI-9 which serves as an edifying demonstration of the human spirit’s potential to rise above and triumph over corrosive cultural influences.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 10, 2010 7:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
In the second map you provide Texas is in the deep south
You need to link to the paper that you based this off of and provide some backround as to why you’re qualified to make these kind of interpretations.
by RaiderPete on Feb 10, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's out there in the public domain. The eastern border of Texas is included because of the western
migration of Louisiana culture (probably some Texas southwest culture moved eastward as well). But you see, the data does hold for the 5 key states that everyone whose looked at it includes as embodying the DS culture.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 10, 2010 12:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You continue to cite a paper that you haven't provided.
And you’ve continued to fail to back up the notion that the deep south has corrosive cultural influences. You’ve attempted to dismiss every example of successful players from the deep south as anomalies. Yet the examples are so numerous, the support of the original argument so lacking, that theres nothing left to conclude except that this alleged effect is non existant.
Again, I would really hope that one of the editors would take this post off the front page. It makes a mockery of the site.
by RaiderPete on Feb 10, 2010 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
look at the map I provided above--it's from Wikipedia
My search term was, I believe, “Deep South culture.” Various other sources come up.
by Spirals galore on Feb 10, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to know the exact sources used.
As far as I can tell Sons just did a wiki search and tailored his criteria of the deep south to fit his argument.
by RaiderPete on Feb 10, 2010 4:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I read the wiki article and another from a N.C. professor
Before putting up the post. Then I went back and read more stuff online and realized that things were moving around on the edges but the center of gravity was consistent with those 5 states and the Florida panhandle; moreover, that’s what the dictionary defines the ‘deep south’ as.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 10, 2010 4:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not really, Pete.
Blanda does pretty good research. Both of you should back off and start listening to each other.
by Spirals galore on Feb 10, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You through out several names last night and the data blew you away
Now you come out of the woodwork again. Do you enjoy being beaten? Does your woman still bring strange men home and make you sleep on the couch?
I’ll rework this thing, don’t worry. But come up with some “quality work” of your own for a change. If you don’t improve your work ethic you’ll end up a "quack’ some day.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 10, 2010 4:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I appologize Pete:
I’m sorry…
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 10, 2010 6:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're fine Saint.
The reason I’ve made such a big stink about this is because I didn’t feel this was representative of you or the site.
by RaiderPete on Feb 10, 2010 8:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Correction, Derrick Burgess is not eligible for DS status - see, wikipedia on where he grew up
and played High School ball. You ended up getting 1 correct assertion out of 11 (thought you should know).
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 12, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You are so arbitrary that your own point is blunt;
You say that Charlie Garner doesn’t qualify for this list because he was raised in Virginia, and played for Tennessee and note that neither are in the Deep South, however this is based on your 2nd “Red State” Deep South map, but they ARE included using your map detailing the “Cultural Deep South”. You have been arguing for at least 24 hours only because you don’t want to admit the point that your despise for a few players who have cashed in their check has tainted your view of reality. If you would like to continue to argue, please talk to Eli Manning, Sidney Rice and Felix Jones. ALL are born and raised in the Deep South and have shown the motivation and commitment you baselessly claim is missing from Southern players, and even further hint is pervasive in the Southern Culture.
I, Sir, am from the South, and I do agree that there are many in this world that typify the stereotypes of lazy, disingenuous Southerners, but I would submit to you that there are many more that prove to be hard working, dedicated athletes, as well as upstanding citizens. As I have seen your position with this group elevated to an author (aren’t all of us that post an article in our own rites an author), I am happy to leave this site permanently.
I have read many of your post, and it seems that all too often you research information to suit your conclusions, often correctly. The issue is when you are shown to be flawed in your detail or reasoning. You refuse to admit error, and try harder to prove your failing point rather than accept an opposing view, or even more to the point, change your stance on a wrong conclusion. You will do as you’ve done in this post- argue finite details when they support you, and dismiss them or the people that submit them when they don’t.
In summary, you made a HUGE mistake when you bigotedly generalized and stereotyped a historically cultural region. I understand that you tried to polish your elitist attitude by reducing the comments to football players, and then further to players for the Raiders, but your word choice made clear the intentions of your vile comments. Rated-R offered you several opportunities to retract your comments regarding the Southern Community and instead focus on the players, but you chose to stick to your bias, true to your form. Enjoy your vanity as I suppose it’s the only thing that fits you so well.
Enjoyed the comments Saint and Rated-R.
by Joesickness on Feb 10, 2010 9:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
It's true there has been some refinement as more information about the Deep South
came to light. Not all scholars agree on exactly where the lines are drawn and demographic maps that deal with cultures do change over time. That’s why I eventually decided to use the common denominator map that includes the five states and the panhandle of Florida as it is indisputably held to be “the deep south”. You are obviously biased because you are from the deep south and some of the things I’ve said might make a southern gentleman like yourself want to challenge me to a duel. As for who is for or against me, I will let the chips fall. My opinion hasn’t changed much since this went up, and won’t until someone is able to refute it by persuade me to their own by reasoned argument.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 10, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice icon Joesickness. I like that reap your soul shit, I eat souls.... ;)
The RaiderLaker
by JaggerJaw on Feb 10, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can anyone explain why all the text converted to bold type?
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 10, 2010 1:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Probably saint did it when he was drunk last night...or maybe he wasn't drunk, who knows but I think he did it.
Apparently he was double fisting 40 ouncers according to Brhynno.
The RaiderLaker
by JaggerJaw on Feb 10, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, saint didn't do it. Apparently there's a limit on file size and this is what happens (?) when it's exceeded. I may as well keep writing in the subject line since it doesn't make any difference - can you pick up a 40 ouncer with 1 fist?
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 10, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
big foot ale; feet in mouth...
sad when it has to be spelled out; it ruins the joke! read back further. the talk about drinking followed between saint and sob. plays on words, lads, plays on words.
This has become amusing. A slight on a demographic can never be absolute, or all-encompassing. People inevitably move throughout demographics influence by many different cultures and mixtures of cultures and the traditions of each respective region. Inevitably, many folks who find themselves within a certain demographic with a dominant culture find themselves largely influenced by the traditions of said culture. But it is never about every single person. Blanda has but noticed a trend; it seems to at least some degree hold true for our Raiders. Has he said to ignore anyone who comes from the deep south, or even graduates from a school from the deep south, cannot be a great player? I think not.
Has he put his feet in his mouth? Perhaps. That’s what Saint was asking him about the big foot ale…
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 11, 2010 2:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But catfish is a uniquely popular dish in the DS - I too have been to Columbia SD
Savannah GA, Nawlins LA and other DS locations and saw it on the menus … I don’t find it so umbiquitously on menus in Portalnd, OR, StD, CA or NY NY. Sudenly, hyperbolic (exagerated) statements cannot be made because of the belief that “credibility will be lost”. Ad hominems and such occur on blogs on a regular basis, it’s part of the discours and some can handle it while others can’t. Still, some refuse to conform to suburbanite conventions. I use reason when something calls for a reasonable response and humor (some, at least, might call it that) when things get whacky and don’t deserve a reasoned answer – “answer a fool like a fool” as it has been written.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 11, 2010 6:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
While I agree, Sons, I also believe there is a point, when certain thing are better left, unsaid
I’ve stated from the get-go I don’t find anything racist in your query; I’ve also said that one could say it’s classist, which is an entire different argument. What i have realized, is that some have been offended, and I believe offense was never an intention at all, but see how the whole thing has been misconstrued as well.
At this point, I believe RRS, KCDonk, joesick, and perhaps many others have made their decisions, and will believe what they will. I can see the humor in it, but when folks feel insulted (admittedly puzzled, still), it’s just not funny to them.
I will post someday on a psychological question I’ve had on how the money can affect a player, and hadn’t really thought of how demographic could actually affect what truly motivates the player, while that belief on my part was probably tacit, just not one I’d consciously pondered. Today’s football game sees young players with greater payroll disparities among veteran players remaining in the league, and even greater amongst retired and long gone players: it is this disparity, that I believe is at the heart of the cause for ‘certain’ players to lack the motivation to take the weekly punishment (actually, it’s daily) and put in the time to become truly great in perhaps a more competitive and more highly populated football world than ever.
Let me end by saying the ‘certain’ I refer to, has nothing to do with race, nor do I believe SOB ever singled out any race by delineating a demographic. I can assure you all, while Son’s words can be taken in many ways, he never had any ulterior motives of singling out any race. This post has raised many interesting questions! Now it’s time to pose them! I believe it has had everything to do with money and its effect on today’s game, and ultimately can be applied to any demographic. It is perhaps coincidental that a staggering percentage of players that the Raiders have on its current roster arbitrarily are from the DS demographic Blanda pointed out; perhaps you can just chalk it up to Al’s being enamored with the athlete. Another common trait that many of these guys shared was that they were tremedous athletes.
Therein lies perhaps the best post waiting to be written: Freak physical characteristics or guys who can (think MIke Mayock) “just flat out play football.”
I think Saint and I merely pointed out that that aspect of your argument did nothing for it at that point, and from the outsider’s perspective was quite amusing! Especially since some of the youth missed the “Big Foot Ale,” innuendo. And by the way, I love Catfish, and Catfishing! But you know I’m no racist!
I guess if we were somehow "subconscious racists, that’d be another story. I wonder how Jaimi would feel about that? lol Look at all the responses you got!
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 11, 2010 8:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've started work on "Caveat Raiders II" and have benefited mightily from
the opinions, discussions and arguments on this post. The tone will be more serious because I believe there is something substantial behind the data, something that indicates a genuine problem – both for the Raiders and for those men who were indoctrinated by DS culture.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 11, 2010 11:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your psychological question will be flawed unless and until you can admit that the issue is indeed racial.
I will post someday on a psychological question I’ve had on how the money can affect a player
A. very good question. However, your end results will end up being racial once again. The reason for that, is one that you well know, that is that the non-black athlete, in most cases, grew up in an environment that was impoverished, at least to the extent to the enormous differential between their world at birth compared to their “new” world that provides instant gratification in the form of millions of dollars instantly and the stardom that comes with it.. You well know that this is a global issue and problem not one that is just isolated to sports. To look at it from the sports perspective, it is quite clear that the majority of rags to riches athletes, for the most part, are the black athlete. This is a society issue, an issue that is much larger than you’re going to be able to posit in a post. Let’s not hide behind political correctness if you will, let’s just call it the way it is.
The answer to your psychological question is easy: throw millions of dollars at a black athlete that has never experienced that level of income gamut before, then you are going to see the kinds of abuse of motivation that is occurring with some of these athletes. This is a problem with the way that the league is now structured and the huge amounts of money that is available instantaneously. The same goes for the entertainment industry, with too much money too quickly, going to people that have never had it before and never had to earn it in way that was with gradual inclination, which in turn leads to abuse and lack of appreciation. You have the youth/immaturity factor coupled with the rags to riches factor which results in JaMarcus Russell and his fur coats and “bling”, or Javon Walker and his $300,000 wrist watch and a wad of $100 bills to throw away like it was tissue. Does anybody in the world really need a $300,000 wrist watch?
When an athlete or entertainer is able to go from taking bus today and then tomorrow buy a million dollar home for himself and another for a family member, buy 20 cars, get all the women he wants and drugs as well, then you are going to see the results that you are trying to determine, which are not exclusive to blacks, there will be some white cases in your study, but for the majority, no question, it will be the black athlete/entertainer who abuses their success from being gifted/or talented and reaps the riches far too quickly to appreciate it.
I’m not saying that ALL black athletes abuse the riches that fall upon them, quite to the contrary, I’m saying that when there is an abuse, as defined above, then the majority of the cases are going to turn out black and that’s a fact. If you can prove that your study will show that the abuse is evenly spread or not majority black, then I’m interested to see. Otherwise, the issue is racial and don’t be afraid to say so.
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 12, 2010 2:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What you're talking about is really an ill effect of poverty
Poverty is certainly one of the DS problems. But being poor is not essentially a racial characteristic – otherwise we’d see uniformity of racial behaviors around the world. Lack of something, poverty, is more like bad health (lacking good health). The DS players, regardless of race, are negatively affected by the culture they grew up in.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 12, 2010 6:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You continue to miss the point
You and now Brynno have identified a "problem" that you are trying with all your might to persuade this audience that this problem is specific to the Deep South, but yet is not racial. Yet, you don’t want to or you are afraid to (because of political correctness) admit that the issues you are trying to resolve is racial.
This cannot be denied, because if you take the "problem", as you and Brynno have defined it, isolate and put it into a box, inside that box all the human beings there with the "problem" which you have identified, will almost exclusively be black. That will be the rule, with an infinitesimal percentage being non-black. I have asked you to prove otherwise, I provided you with a list of the worst white Raiders players ever drafted, none of which came from the Deep South and you have not provided a coherent response that is anywhere close to being persuasive. You included Cooper Carlisle on your list when you darn well know that he does not belong on that list pursuant to YOUR criterion. He was included because he was the "token white guy" to throw on there for you to be able to avoid having an exclusive list of black players. That is why I am as disturbed about your so-called theory as I am and why I viewed you as a closet racist. Because, you seem to be a smart guy and a smart guy would not have included Cooper Carlisle on that list under YOUR criterion.
To prove my point further and again according to your criterion and your second map, you conveniently left off Mickey Marvin, born and raised in Hendersonville N.C. Why didn’t Mickey Marvin turn out the way your other examples did?
You have to change your premise. Why is it so hard for you to just say? Due to the lack of a strong internal disciplinary structure of the Oakland Raiders organization, they should not draft black players from the Deep South.
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 12, 2010 8:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But I've been down on Cooper Carlisle for months and the record
will support it. I’m not alone; there are many who have been calling for an upgrade of the ROLs – both Guard and OT. Some have even wanted to draft a Guard in the 1st round to replace Carlisle – that’s how bad they think he is.
The states that surround the DS, like N.C. Tennessee and Arkansas are not usually considered DS – but some articles place rural portions of these states in the DS because they found their culture there the same.
Finally, because something impacts a certain racial group does not make it essentially racial – more political I should think. But, I am most interested in what is best for the Raiders and until the Raider culture changes we just don’t do well with the stereotypical product of the DS – red, white, black or blue.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 12, 2010 10:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was reading about the horrendous poverty-caused problems in the DS
and would appreciate if look at this link and let me know what you think.
by Spirals galore on Feb 12, 2010 7:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This, while well thought out, is flawed reasoning
A psychological question is simply that: psychological. It’s intricacies can be traced to many things, some leading us to believe race may indeed be a factor as well as many other factors. To say that this, as his prior discussion will be inherently racial, is a “sweeping generalization.”
I stand by my original deduction: it is you who must put a racial connotation on your opinion of what SOB said, and who insists and drawing color lines for whatever reason.
I’m afraid, I just don’t see it, nor do I think I ever will. Economics and poverty have everything to do with the subject, and when those two things are exclusive to a single race, I’ll concur. For now, I know no race that is immune to these effects.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 12, 2010 7:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and which race suffer the most from "economics and poverty"?
For now, I know no race that is immune to these effects.
Correct, unless you make your definition of the problem specific to the Raiders, specific to the Deep South and then tie that metric to "overpaid, underperforming, DO NOT DRAFT", which is the case with this post. Again, I am attacking Blanda’s and now apparently your premise that you are using to try to support a very flawed argument from the outset. What Blanda found was a series of coincidences that have yielded poor results for the Raiders, not an identifiable problem that does NOT INCLUDE RACE. Again, I’m waiting for someone to provide the name of a white player drafted by the Raiders that suffers from the "DS problem".
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 12, 2010 8:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
doing so, would merely be admitting it had a racial connotation. I refuse, and this is not my premise. You have put a racial connotation on this, not Blanda. You point out that the economic ramifications put in question, "which race." How do you know the
answer to this question? If you’re comparing black and white, then you have answered your question of race correctly, but you leave out every other race in the nation; but was that ever Blanda’s argument?
I have a problem with folks who want to put a racial spin on things where it really has no place. You have done this, and you keep asking for him to produce a player of the white race, as if it would prove anything but that you’re right in your calling it racist.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 12, 2010 6:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
rags-to-riches DS blacks
http://www.smartmoneydaily.com/celeb-finance/10-rags-to-riches-billionaires.aspx
Oprah Winfrey
Net worth: $2.5 billion
Born in rural Mississippi to a poor unwed teenaged mother, and later raised in an inner city Milwaukee neighborhood, Winfrey was raped at the age of nine, and at fourteen, gave birth to a son who died in infancy. Sent to live with the man she calls her father, a barber in Tennessee, Winfrey landed a job in radio while still in high school and began co-anchoring the local evening news at the age of 19.
Her emotional ad-lib delivery eventually got her transferred to the daytime talk show arena, and after boosting a third-rated local Chicago talk show to first place, she launched her own production company and became internationally syndicated.
Winfrey became a millionaire at age 32 when her talk show went national. Because of the amount of revenue the show generated, Winfrey was in a position to negotiate ownership of the show and start her own production company. By 1994 the show’s ratings were still thriving and Winfrey negotiated a contract that earned her nine figures a year.
Considered the richest woman in entertainment by the early 1990s, at age 41 Winfrey’s wealth crossed another milestone when with a net worth of $340 million, she replaced Bill Cosby as the only African American on the Forbes 400. Although blacks are 12% of the U.S. population, Winfrey has remained the only black person wealthy enough to rank among America’s 400 richest people nearly every year since 1995.
by Spirals galore on Feb 12, 2010 8:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I believe it is going to turn out to be the young, male black person the majority of the time.
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 12, 2010 8:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
so you are saying that them boys
have a bigger problem than them girls? Why would that be, I wonder?
by Spirals galore on Feb 12, 2010 8:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know you avoid reading linked articles
but nevertheless I’ll refer you to this one, b/c it offers a much more detailed picture on child poverty.
I will paste the conclusion part only but suggest you go and read the rest before commenting.
Poor children living in rural America face significant educational,
social, and economic challenges just as their urban counterparts do, but many of these problems are exacerbated by the isolation and limited access to support services common in rural areas. Rural parents are also more likely to have less education and they are more likely to be underemployed. The poorer education and job experiences of their parents mean rural children are more likely to be poor. Moreover, recent changes in family structure (fewer rural children in married-couple families) have exacerbated child poverty in rural America.
Although many of the differences between rural children and urban children are relatively small, the vast majority of those differences disadvantage rural children.
In addition to the scarcity of jobs, the physical and social isolation associated with rural poverty creates problems different
from those in densely settled urban areas. Moreover, in many rural areas the social stigma of government programs is stronger because of the high value on self-reliance in rural areas.
The urban focus of welfare programs means policy makers often shortchange needy rural families when designing and implementing the safety net. The socioeconomic environment
that poor rural families face should be considered before
designing and implementing policies and programs for the poor. Because of their isolation, poor rural children may be more disadvantaged in some ways than poor children in urban areas.
by Spirals galore on Feb 12, 2010 8:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
O.K. and ?
All that you did was to confirm my point and identify the “root cause”. What you fail to say is that the race that is subject to that problem is black, for by far, the majority of the time.
Blanda’s premise is narrow and because he has no white, Raider player identified, that is overpaid and underperforming, his theorem fails as written.
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 12, 2010 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, that's not what the article says
You must be dyslexic, or more probably, blinded by an agenda (ironically, this is what you accuse Blanda of). Race has nothing to do with poverty—race is accidental to poverty.
by Spirals galore on Feb 12, 2010 9:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not accidental
And I’m not dyslexic just because I don’t think there is any correlation and for that matter veracity in the article you cite, which does nothing to support your position that race is not an issue.
To the benchmark Blanda uses when isolating to just the Raiders. Anyway, that article far too general and not region specific to fit your argument. "Rural America" is not necessarily the "Deep South".
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 12, 2010 9:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you'd do everything to have it your way, huh:)
I knew you’d slam the article, the question was only how you’d do it. The article specifically discusses the Deep South, but you probably just browsed through it.
What did you think of the high percentage of non-Hispanic white poor kids in the Appalachian region?
by Spirals galore on Feb 12, 2010 9:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oh, I get it
You thought the article was “far too general” b/c it didn’t say that race was the cause for poverty.
by Spirals galore on Feb 12, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No
There is just not enough space on this blog to go into the subject matter which that subject deserves.
You should try for once to keep it to where it relates to football and not broaden it so much in order to fit your position. I would be happy to debate you on this subject though, just not on this blog. Pick any social-political blog of your choosing and I will be there!
by kcDONKEYdominator on Feb 12, 2010 10:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your words. You should heed them:
There is just not enough space on this blog to go into the subject matter which that subject deserves.
You should try for once to keep it to where it relates to football and not broaden it so much in order to fit your position. I would be happy to debate you on this subject though, just not on this blog.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
by brhynno on Feb 12, 2010 6:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Blanda's Article Has Put The Deep South In a Deep Freeze!!!
This article also categorizes the Deep South as exactly how Blanda defined it geographically.
It is all about coming together as a team. At the end of the day, the team is all we have. - T. Branch 10-14-09
by Raymond St. Martin (Saint) on Feb 12, 2010 9:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Are you guys kidding me??
Ive been a Raider Fan for 38 years. I can tell you that the play or lack of play by this orginization over the last 7 years has been embarassing.
I could care less what color you are, ethnicity or where you were raised up from.
Its apparant to me that todays “generation” is completely different than when I was a kid and maybe some of you too.
Work ethic, striving to achieve, taking ownership are merely empty words and phrases in todays society.
We have become the “gimme, gimme, gimme” country and sadly it has come to be “expected” that they should “get, get, get”. with putting little or no effort into things.Its a piss poor state of affairs that we, as a country have allowed.
RAIDER WROK
by Wrok on Feb 21, 2010 8:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

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