Who are the true NT's of the defensive tackle pool, and will that make them likely picks for the Raiders, or the opposite?
This is a brief look at a few guys whose stock is currently rising due the number of teams going to 3-4 alignments, or the teams with existing 3-4s looking to potentially upgrade their positions, and get some youth and depth. These are tomorrow's Haloti Ngati, Kris Jenkins, the Vince Wilforks and Casey Hamptons. These are some of the top guys (on draft boards, anyways). I admit, I don't get to watch college, and don't see them in action. I will provide whatever video highlights I can, but we all know highlight reels can be as bs as stats often can. Click on their names for links to their profiles on NFLdraftscout.com:
Dan Williams, 6'3", 327. Tennessee.
| DAN WILLIAMS CAREER STATISTICS | |||||||||||
| DEFENSE | SACKS/ | TFL/ | FR/ | INT/ | HIGH | ||||||
| YEAR | G | UT | AT | TT | YDS | YDS | FF | YDS | PD | YDS | TKLE |
| 2006 | 6 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1/1 | 1/1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0/0 | 1-2x |
| 2007 | 14 | 19 | 21 | 40 | 2/18 | 6.5/31 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0/0 | 6-2x |
| 2008 | 12 | 23 | 25 | 48 | 1.5/7 | 8.5/19 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0/0 | 8-Aub |
| Totals | 32 | 43 | 47 | 90 | 4.5/26 | 16/51 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0/0 |
8-Aub |
All I can really say is he's moving up boards because of what folks are saying about his abilities in the 3-4, and a few teams like WA, Miami, maybe even Cleveland, will be looking to go 3-4. His Tennessee page: link
and: video You can pretty much see why Eric Berry is as good as he is. I think I'd get some pick sixes with that guy killing opposing qbs and owning two lineman consistently. A true 3 technique guy. Projected in the mid first round, I woudn't mind seeing him a Raider.
Cam Thomas, 6'4", 330, North Carolina. Sounds kinda like a "Cable guy"
This from his profile on NFLdraftscout.com: "I really don't ask about my stock," Thomas said. "I really don't want to know because I don't want to get caught up in that stuff. I'm just every day working out, working hard. In April, that's when everything falls into place." Thomas, who is 6-foot-3 and 330 pounds, said he enjoys taking on two blockers when he's playing nose. "I love guerilla warfare, baby," he said. "That's where you earn your stripes. I got my stripes.
Projected now in the mid to late second round, having moved up consistently since the senior bowl; it appears as though the increased interest in NTs for the 3-4 has escalated stock of these guys. Could be a great pick for us in the second. This:video Dude's pretty beastly, but part of a solid front seven unit. Could be a team first guy, too.
I don't care if we go 3-4 or not; I want a guy who knows how to handle double teams. If the first NT type goes early, all of these guys will move up the boards, and our pick level might be right there. His senior bowl page: link
I think he'd complete for a starting job with Kelly immediately. He'd make him, and the rest of the line better doing so.
Torrell Troup, 6'3", 314, UCF 
link to his page at central Florida. Don't know much about him, but he looks like an NFL NT, and his highlights show some interesting skills, but it's hard for me to get too excited about them, because these skills don't always show up in the pros. I couldn't find much for easily accessible film on this guy; here's a big play in the East-West game: video
Linval Joseph, 6'5, 328 (it's funny, I think it says 6'6", 315 in his video, ha ha!)
Exciting prospect someone here pointed out. Huge wingspan on this guy, and he seems to use it a lot to contain the passer, and disrupt passing lanes when he doesn't get the sack, tackle for loss, or forced fumble. Seems to have a nasty streak to him necessary to battle NFL guys, and a big body too. I remembered him from discussing him here, which is why he was in this mix of guys, who fall in a variety of places on the board, which gives the Raiders multiple choices of where to take the guys. video
I'd love Brian Price, especially for us, but don't see him being looked at as hard as the teams looking for a Ngata type NT to work in their newly installed, or revamped 3-4 schemes.
Of course we all know of others we've all talked about, but there's only a few that I think have the size and ability to play NT and be dominant at the pro level. We'll see how many pan out. This is all of them, almost : video
I didn't include the obvious Suh, Price, and McCoy, but of the others, the size guys like Cody will be the NTs. We've discussed Cody, and these were just some arbitrary names I believe I picked out from hearing discussions on NFL radio and discussing here at Silver and Black Pride.
By all means, join the fun, and talk about who you love, and why, and who's a true NT and who's not, especially how it relates to the Raiders and their current best options.
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Im pulling for either Cam Thomas or Linval Joseph in the second...but
Any one of the NT/DT’s you stated would be great. Linval was said to be a 4th rounder well guess what…Thats Bullshit, I see this guy being a formidable force in the NFL.
The RaiderLaker
Uhh.........NT aren't just in 3-4
You still need a 310-330 pound guy in a 4-3. That’s why there’s a second DT, one to pass rush beside the space eating NT.
Just because we need a NT doesn’t mean we’re going 3-4. Nor do I want us to. Going 3-4 means changing up our whole scheme, needing another big OLB and two MLB (since we don’t even have one consistent one)
And going 3-4 will take time for our players to adjust. The whole process would make us a worse off team when we’re actually building a very talented 4-3 defense.
Now with that said, I want one of Dan Williams, Linval Joesph, or Cam Thomas on this team. They to me are the best NT in the draft that we could get (Suh won’t happen and McCoy is a pass rusher UT)
It doesn’t matter to me which of three we get, all three have the skills and the mentality to be our NT for years upon years to come.
Here’s to hoping we get Dan Williams or McClain in the first (since Okung will most likely be gone) to give us an even better 4-3 defense. Emphasis on 4-3
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
by KA1Z3R on Mar 14, 2010 7:01 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
True, but.... we will (eventually) switch back to 3-4 and now is better than later - the truth be told, we aren't going to the SB this season
…. just too many weaknesses to addressl in one year. But we should make it there in 3 or possibly 2 years.
Defensively we already have the speedy OLBs for a 3-4 – in Scott and Howard – and we could start using one of our hardest hitters, Mike the Missile in the 2nd line too (a bit light at 220 but 100% lean & mean), Kelly can play DE opposite Rich. We’re bringing in a MLB and DT anyway – so select them with the 3-4 option open, i.e. a DT in the NT mold, and not a non-penetrating Cody type either but rather a Williams and Joseph type with a mean-streak and a MLB with a coaches mind and Jack Bauer’s killer instinct.
Thank you, Brhynno, your presentation addresses a very crucial component (NT) for our success.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 14, 2010 8:43 AM PST up reply actions
3-4 Defense
True, but…. we will (eventually) switch back to 3-4 and now is better than later – the truth be told, we aren’t going to the SB this season
Where does it say this?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Mar 14, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
That was response to KA1ZR's
“And going 3-4 will take time for our players to adjust. The whole process would make us a worse off team when we’re actually building a very talented 4-3 defense.”
Since we’re in a the building process already then I’d prefer to build into 3-4.
Does this answer your question?
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 14, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
No
It doesn’t really my answer question. You claim that we will eventually switch back to a 3-4 defense. Again, my question is where does it say that?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Mar 14, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he's saying it as
what he thinks might happen in the future judging from what we’ve accomplished with the 4-3. Which is not much. So he thinks the would try a different scheme, and see how it would work out.
I agree K, but the emphasis on their stock rising due to the 3-4 teams looking at them, has them harder to get for us
and questionable as to whether they truly garner as high a pick as we’re currently sitting with. It’s also why I highlighted some later round guys. I agree, you have to have a guy who can consistently handle two gaps, two defenders, multiple assignments—in the 4-3. I just think they’re gonna go fast due to the demand for true NT’s in a league that’s going to predominantly 3-4 alignments.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
adjusting to 3-4 is not as hard as you think.
All you need is a nose tackle. Your DEs can convert to OLB, your OLBs can convert to MLBs and your MLBs can convert to OLBs, and your secondary will be just fine.
All you need is a Nose Tackle.
This is why we take McClain in round 1
There will be a quality DT available with the 2nd pick either Thomas, Troup or Joesph hell maybe even Cody. Have a pair of BAMA boys in the middle would be nice!
The resigning of Barnes means he’s getting another shot and less likely we will take an Offensive Tackle in round 1. I don’t like the idea of taking a guard in round one I don’t think it is a big of a need as a MLB. Plus with giving Morrison only a third round tender the Raiders are planning on him leaving and getting a 3rd round pick.
The future is uncertain... and the end is always near. JMorrison
That's been my first pick too, since I've felt both McCoy and Suh would be gone
Okung as well, and I believe McClain might be too. If he’s there, I think it’s the natural pick, but there are those who’ll say our lack of ever picking an lb with the first will dictate the odds are we don’t again. If that’s the case, and Cleveland passes on Haden, I believe odds are we’ll take him.
I’d think if it turns out like that, trading down and getting Price, Pouncey, or Iupati are the best bets; maybe take the best tackle with a late 1st rounder, but I have big questions after Okung, and would prefer taking a guy in the later rounds at tackle instead of potentially reaching for the projected top 3 after Russell Okung.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
I'd like Haden as well
But I feel he will be a Brown.
I have heard that the Raiders don’t draft LB’s in the first as well but prior to last year Tim Brown was the last WR taken in the first. and who did we reach on.(not to say he won’t be good but not worth the pick as I believe I read you also mentioned)
We did draft Napoleon Harris (LB) in the first and Philip Bucanahan also in 1st in the same year with the GRUDEN deal to the Bucs. So any thing is possible!
We will see if Cable has any influence at all.
Anything to help us F@#king win
The future is uncertain... and the end is always near. JMorrison
For sure, dude. I don't see how anyone can say they can even remotely predict what we'll ever do
especially based on past, apparent, “trends” people claim to have observed. I don’t rule anything out based on such speculation or theory. Anyone is possible, and I usually try to focus on if they can help us win and how.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
43 defense
needs a NT too…there is a one technique and a three in most schemes..so i think we need a solid one tech and then let kelly play the three and on passing downs slide seymour inside and take him off the field…and move trevor scott to the line
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else." John Madden
awesome article tho Bryhno
we have some really solid contributors that have stepped it up recently…BA Armstrong Sons of Blanda, Noontide, Kaiser, Rated R Superstar, Saint …really good stuff guys… i wish i lived on the west coast and could hang out for the draft party and come tailgate with everyone who goes to the games…. someday when i can afford it itll be different
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else." John Madden
Thanks, Brian. I anticipated some would question my angle on the true 'NT type' and their 3-4 connotations
I’m full aware we need one in the 4-3 too. I’m just understanding that there will be fewer NT guys in the 320 plus range, who have the ability to play 1 or 3 technique, due to the demand for guys who will need to fit the mold for teams with existing 3-4 alignments.
Raider Nation is worldwide, bro! We have our fun on the west coast, but one of the things I love about being a Raiders fan is that you really can’t go anywhere without finding Nation brethren representing! And this is no less true on the international level.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
LINVAL!!!
Ive been pullin for this guy ever since I seen the video on him! Hes HUGE and has a nose for the ball. Id stay away from Cam Thomas, He didnt do much before the Senior Bowl. Maybe a 1 game wonder. I also noticed how the video said he was only 315! I didnt believe it either!
In Bruce We Trust
Perhaps the only steal in the draft, but even he could go much higher due to demands
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
Luckily we have two 3rds. If hes there with our 1st 3rd, Take him!
Hes a big body who puts up consistent numbers as well. Plus, His highschools team name was the Raiders! Destiny? I think so
In Bruce We Trust
I'm thinking the draft is looking like Joseph will fall right to us
So many multiple choices this year, that will depend on which need we address first. You throw a monkey wrench in the whole plot when you miss the opportunity to address the most glaring weakness when you should, with the best player available there, something we have done every year for about six years now. We’ve gotten some solid players, but could’ve done better no doubt. The Eugene Monroes, the Phil Loadholts, cannot be passed up this year when the time is right for the taking, especially if its for the likes of a Taylor Mays, or a Jahvid Best.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
the 2nd 3rd is gone
we made a trade today for that 3rd pick with clevland and that was a great trade we made
by sports with steve on Mar 14, 2010 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions
it's funny we've had time lapse our posts and transactions go down... I agree on this one
but believe, we will still end up with at least one more third from the tender on Kirk Morrison; someone will pick him up. I want to keep him, but believe he’s been marketed.
The only question is: Who’s it gonna be?
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
we don't have a 3rd
but we have a 2nd! actually we have 3 of those, but you can have one.
Nobody has metioned Terrance Cody
The guy appears to be slimming down, to a svelt 349 lbs at his pro day. down from aprox. 370 +or – at the combine.
Is everyone sour on this guy or do we just want to wait until the 3rd round to pickup a NT?
Opinions ?
Cody
I’d love to grab him, but I wouldn’t take him with the eighth pick. If he falls to us in the second, something I don’t anticipate happening, it would be heavenly.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Mar 14, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
actually we have; it's why he's not in here. we've bounced him around, and remain pretty mixed on him
I mentioned that in the post:
I didn’t include the obvious Suh, Price, and McCoy, but of the others, the size guys like Cody will be the NTs. We’ve discussed Cody, and these were just some arbitrary names I believe I picked out from hearing discussions on NFL radio and discussing here at Silver and Black Pride.
I think the consensus was we feel he’s not worth the pick we have and where he’s projected; Troup actually went from 355 at one point in the offseason to weigh in at 314 at the combine, and got 34 reps on bench with long arms. Impressive.
I guess Cody’s rising due to the rising of the few NT body guys to go around, finds him, at least in my opinion, not worth the 8th overall. Not nasty enough, and I wonder if he’d be disruptive consistently in the pros, or just another Gerard Warren or Tommy Kelly.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
My Bad
I meant that he wasn’t being discussed in the comments. I am not in favor of him either.
I’d rather pick up Linval Joseph or Cam Thomas in the 3rd
I'd be ecstatic with either of those guys with our third round picks
Cody could actually prove a lot of us doubters wrong, too, but I’m among them with you.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
Terrence Cody is a no no
Hes too big, fat and unconditioned. He’ll take off plays and his work ethic is a question
In Bruce We Trust
Maybe we should put a sticker of a cheeseburger on the ball
He’d be flying around the field to get to it
We all love the Warriors..
We all hate Cohan as an owner of this franchise…
If he gets to around 320 lbs
then I think we should get him in he second. if not then Kyle Wilson.
Thanks for the info brhynno
well done post and now I’ve seen what Torell Troup looks like. I love the name and I’m jealous of the hair.
cody , hell ya!
the power pig is strong and hard to move and is a run stopper
by sports with steve on Mar 14, 2010 9:06 PM PDT reply actions
No penetrating ability, given to lethargy (DS syndrome) low body density, will fade in 2nd half and take plays off, and ...
lacks a mean streak. The guy might intimidate JR at the buffet but on the field I’d prefer Price or Joseph.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 14, 2010 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn! It's working well for him!
I take back every bad word I ever said!
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
2 lb burger?
what is the weight of that burger? cody and jarmacus could have a eating contest!
by sports with steve on Mar 15, 2010 11:16 AM PDT reply actions
Cam Thomas or Dan Williams would be great picks
Good stuff BTW. We can move down in the draft & still get Williams from OU or Davis from Rutgers in the 1st, Then get Cam Thomas in the 2nd & this would be a successful draft. I’m worried now that I’m hearing Cleveland is positioning themselves to possibly draft a QB that we end up with Mays or Haden now. Oh well talking about it is fun I guess.
just confused
how does Cleveland getting a QB, automatically has us picking Mays or Haden?
If Haden in the 1st
we need DT or MLB in the second and or 3rd
What our pas rush needs is a player that draws constant double teams in the middle that will free up the ends. and equal sacks and hurries.
The future is uncertain... and the end is always near. JMorrison
Yes, with Haden, Aso, Branch and Huff other teams won't have any choice but run the ball - then we're really screwed
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 15, 2010 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha...but it makes me cry
Where is Dan Williams projected to go? Is he there in the second for us?
Also for the 3rd we could take Angerer, we might even be able to get him in the 4th.
Cable Bumaye! Raiders Bumaye!
Mid first round, and rising with the demand on his type of body and skill set
Emphasis on majority zero technique: taking up two blockers to free up pass rushers. I’m thinking getting him there is best bet.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
With our first round pick that is
Reaching a little, but we should take him, if McClain, and quality OTs are gone as projected. Haden is a high probability, but passing Williams could be a big mistake. Thinking Linval will be there in the third is becoming a stretch too.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
Williams will be available until around 11-15 range
Since Denver, Miami, & San Fran all have picks in that range. All of which play a 3-4 which always needs a NT. San Fran has Franklin designated as their franchise guy so they may let him walk next year if they draft Williams. Denver just signed J. Williams from SD but he’s 34, & Miami looks like they won’t let him get by them at 12 or 13 now that they signed Dansby to play right behind him. With that said, best option is to trade down with the Jaguars, pick up more picks & get him at 10. Or just stay put & take Dan Williams at 8 since some of those teams might trade up with Buffalo at 9 to take him since a pure NT is such a need in the 3-4. I like him since everyone here is saying Kelly would be more productive with a true NT next to him. This would not only prove if that theory is true but we would get a foundation to help bring that horrid run defense average back to at least the middle of the pack for the 1st time in a long time.

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