KA1Z3R's Quick Mock Raiders Draft
by KA1Z3R on Mar 21, 2010 4:57 PM PDT
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PrintI just felt like posting a quick mock draft. Hope you enjoy. However, in it I have Morrison being signed by another team, thus giving us a third rounder as a result. This seems to be what everyone is thinking will happen
1st. Round- G Mike Iupati
I just love Iupati. I can't help but pray we draft him, though it's unlikely. I think he really solidifies the interior of our line. Plus as I stated in my previous post's comments, he brings an attitude and a swagger that our line lacks, thus his presence makes the whole unit better.
The past four years, there's been a really good OT come out of the draft. Joe Thomas, Jake Long, Ryan Clady, Michael Oher; but this time it will be a guard. That guard is Iupati.
2nd. round- CB Patrick Robinson
Fast, good set of hands, great awareness. I really like Robinson. Though, I think he should play #3 corner early on in the year to develop and learn from CJ and Nnamdi. I think Robinson could be a good corner for us to rotate with CJ. Which I think is something you'll see more of this year.
With Nnamdi avoided, the other corner gets pounded. But if two equally talented corners rotate every couple downs, I believe we could find a solution. Robinson is just the kind of guy I want rotating with CJ.
3rd. round- MLB Pat Angerer
There's no linebacker more vicious (well maybe eye-gouger Spikes), more hard-hitting, or more aggressive than Angerer in the draft. Though I think he'll have some trouble early on in coverage, but you can't deny his ability in the run game. He is absolutely devastating. No matter who is at DT, I think he would succeed. Strong, fast, and a great block shedder, Angerer is our solution to our MLB woes.
Round 3- (Morrison pick) OT Selvish Capers
Living in West Virginia, you hear and see a lot of Capers. And I like what I see and hear. Very underrated in the draft, Capers is second round quality in the third-to-fourth round range. Has the size for the ZBS, but the strength of a power blocking scheme player.
High energy, fun loving, he's like the Thomas Howard of the offensive line. I would gladly wait till round 3 for us to draft a RT if the name Capers comes across the screen. Smart, fast, strong, and a guy who excels at run blocking, I love Selvish Capers.
Round 4- DT Torrell Troup
If you ever managed to watch UCF, you would know Troup was the cog that the great UCF defense revolved around. Big, strong, and able to penetrate to make plays in the backfield, Troup is the kinda guy I want to round off our defensive line.
Troup is an every down DT, a monster in the run game and a constant threat in the passing game, sign me up to the Troup bandwagon.
Round 6- RB Roy Upchurch
via media.scout.com
The buzz in Tuscaloosa all year was Mark Ingram, but Upchurch, Alabama's #2 RB, could have started for 80% of all college teams. With Fargas gone, I'd like to see Oakland try to draft a sleeper back to play #3 in the rotation (#2 if McFadden keeps sucking).
He's not blazing fast, and he's not a true power back, he's just a good all-around running back. I don't think you could find a more reliable all around back this late in the draft. I think he could be a pretty decent rotation back in the NFL.
Round 7- John Conner
Good blocker and a decent runner, Connor reminds me of a less developed Zack Crockett. And who doesn't want that on their team? Might not be here when we pick, but I really hope he is. Basically an insurance policy if O' Neal can't go this year or isn't up to par.
I know I wasn't very in-depth, but I just wanted to do this real quick to give ya'll my preferred mock draft as it stands.
Depth Chart after draft:
- QB- Gradkowski/Frye/Russell
- RB- Bush/McFadden/Upchurch
- FB- O'Neal/Connor
- TE- Miller/Myers/Stewart
- WR1- Schilens/Higgins/Figurs
- WR2- Murphy/DHB/N.Miller
- LT- Henderson/Barnes (depends on who wins that competition)
- LG- Gallery/Walker
- C- Satele/Morris
- RG- Iupati/Carlisle
- RT- Capers/Barnes (I would like to see a competition here)
- RE- Wimbley/Shaughnessy/Scott (if Shaughnessy does better than Wimbley then he should start)
- UT- Kelly/Bryant
- NT- Troup/Joesph (he always makes it on roster)
- LE- Seymour/Shaughnessy/Richardson
- ROLB- Howard/Ekejiuba
- MLB- Angerer/Brown
- LOLB- Scott/Wimbley
- CB1- Asomugha/Routt
- CB2- Johnson/Robinson (once more I would like a competition here)
- FS- Huff/Eugene
- SS- Branch/Mitchell
- K- Janikowski
- P- Lechler
- KR- Figurs
- PR- Higgins (I want to give him another chance to see how he does)
Thoughts and opinions?
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LOVE IT!
Id go for a Special Teams guy in the 6th though. Someone to create turn overs and give us good defensive field posistion.
In Bruce We Trust
good choices
what do you think about Stafon Johnson? I don’t know how far he’ll fall due to his injury but I’d like to see him taken. Didn’t see enough of bama to know about him
tatum, davidson, romanowski, wisniewski...LET'S GET NASTIER!!!!
Johnson
He went to USC and we should avoid drafting him.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Mar 21, 2010 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Whats wrong with Stafon?
Do you think he’s a bad back or just not right for Oakland?? I personally like the guy, But we shouldnt be taking a HB in this years draft
In Bruce We Trust
Bingo
But we shouldnt be taking a HB in this years draft
That’s it right there.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Mar 21, 2010 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions
as opposed to
fargas, marcus allen?? did bo go there?
tatum, davidson, romanowski, wisniewski...LET'S GET NASTIER!!!!
by angelesoterica on Mar 21, 2010 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Like Stafon Johnson
Reminds me of the gamble we took on Michael Bush. Any guy who gets his throat crushed by a barbell then gets under one for the world to see is pretty tough. Reminds me of the gamble we took on Michael Bush. Just do it late in the draft if at all.
by golfswithglock on Mar 22, 2010 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Not to crazy about it
Good analysis and it had interesting ideas but i really prefer a Tackle in the first or a DT then a Guard. and our 2 biggest needs werent selected till the 3rd and 4th round.?! thats kinda iffy too me… we need first round talent at those positions.. and i prefer drafting a QB over a RB.
Actually....
I do like this draft… except about how late we select a DT… and prefer a QB over a RB… but Iupati might also be able to play RT so it might just work or he can play RG and Capers turns to be a great value at round 4… but what if Troup isnt that playmaking force we need upfront.?
If Troup isn’t going to make it, then I doubt anybody else in the size range we need will outside the first round.
Remeber though, DT’s have a bit of a learning curve. If he struggles at first, it’s perfectly natural.
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
I like it, but think Troup won't be there in the fourth
as all big body DTs will move higher than projected due to how many will be taken to fulfill roles in 3-4 alignments looking to upgrade. Not enough guys with bodies like Torrell’s to go around.
I know nothing about Upchurch, and very little about Capers than what I’ve heard here, but trust your judgment very much. I’ll be watching these guys.
I’d kinda prefer we addressed DT with an earlier pick, perhaps Linval, as it is a greater necessity. Love Angerer for the MLB hole, and pretty much assumed we can view Morrison as a third round pick too, although I’d love a scenario that finds us keeping him. I also realize that extra third pick will be priceless for us.
"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew
am I the only one
who thinks Michael Bush will be gone on draft day? Its just a gut feeling but if he’s gone look for Jahvid Best to be drafted. I do like this mock though.
tatum, davidson, romanowski, wisniewski...LET'S GET NASTIER!!!!
I sure hope Bush isnt gone
I like him alot and when he gets his carries he’ll make it to Hawaii. But if he is gone, Id like to pick up either Best, Gerhart or Mathews
In Bruce We Trust
Because other teams are starting to recognize that hes great
While Oakland has yet to realize the great player he actually is. Knowing us, We’ll probably trade him for a 6th Rd. pick or something
In Bruce We Trust
I think
personally Al wants D-mac to succeed, not Bush. Holy crap i just thought of a trade scenario: Bush and #8 for Detroit’s #2. Welcome to the Raiders Ndamukong Suh!!!
tatum, davidson, romanowski, wisniewski...LET'S GET NASTIER!!!!
by angelesoterica on Mar 21, 2010 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions
noooo..
i love Suh but i really like Bush… he was our only 100 yard rush in a game last year.! If he wasnt such a pansy sometimes and didnt ask to get taken out he’d be beast.! i like Bush as our powerback.
and of course Al wants McFadden to succeed.. thats who he really wanted and Al loves speed..
I wouldnt mind
But we’d have to grab another back in the draft. Darren just isn’t that kind of HB. Im a huge fan of Gerhart! Id love to see him in silver and black
In Bruce We Trust
hate to break your heart
but we wont get him. we might get Jahvid best in the second which i would be ok with as long as we get Suh.
tatum, davidson, romanowski, wisniewski...LET'S GET NASTIER!!!!
by angelesoterica on Mar 21, 2010 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions
No
Detroit isn’t dumb.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Mar 21, 2010 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions
are you sure?
they did draft 3 WR’s in the first round 3 years in a row.
tatum, davidson, romanowski, wisniewski...LET'S GET NASTIER!!!!
by angelesoterica on Mar 21, 2010 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
True
They did that, but that was when Matt Millen was running things.
They’re not trading down six picks so they can have a guy like Michael Bush.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Mar 21, 2010 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions
who do they have at RB?
and they might go for it to take an o-line guy they like but dont want to pay like campbell or tony davis. two birds one stone. and i take it you arent a fan of bush?
tatum, davidson, romanowski, wisniewski...LET'S GET NASTIER!!!!
by angelesoterica on Mar 21, 2010 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Bush
I am a fan of his, but it makes no sense for the Lions to go after him. If the Lions really want a running back, they can draft one in the third or fourth round. They don’t have to trade for Bush.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Mar 21, 2010 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions
lions are dum!
lets get there 2nd pick from them cheap and keep the 8th pick. they dont have that kind of money to spend and need cbs-rhoutt/draft picks then we get suh
by sports with steve on Mar 22, 2010 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions
If I am not mistaken
The Raiders almost traded Bush to the Chargers the season before last. I remember reading it on the bottom line while i was watching Sports Center. It was a trade deadline thing that almost happened, but just fell apart. I was pretty shaken, but relieved that it didn’t happen. I am a big advocate for Bush. I think that he and DMC will be a prominent force in the years to come.
The point is that the Raiders have shopped him before in their ignorance, I just hope they don’t do it again.
This is probably more realistic than others - I'd rather sacrifice and see N-Dam-U-Kong up there and Iupati & Angerer too
Put it on the front page KA1Z3R. I like your photo selections (no reservations).
I would be more than happy with this draft
I’m not sure Angerer will be available in the 3rd. With Morrison likely to be gone i think we need to go with a MLB in the second to make sure we don’t miss out.
With the somewhat lack of free agent activity i think Al is looking to trade down for multiple picks in the first and second rounds especially if Iupati is the player they want which is likely with Cable being a known admirer.
"Mel Kiper has his opinion and I respect it. But what does it mean? My 9-year-old nephew can watch film and make an opinion. I think I value the opinion of scouts who get paid to make their opinions. It will carry me through my career. It will serve as motivation for me." - Mike Mitchell
"I'll be the guy on top of the Quarterback" - Richard Seymour
Here they come baby, Just win baby, Feel the storm of the cold autum wind baby
Its the Oakland Raiders, Get your mouthpiece
You in the black hole, With the black beast! - Ice Cube 'Raider Nation'
well assume we get angerer in the second
if this mock is accurate who would you take in the 3rd instead?
tatum, davidson, romanowski, wisniewski...LET'S GET NASTIER!!!!
by angelesoterica on Mar 21, 2010 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Good stuff
But I think more attention need to be paid to the lines.
I think our 2nd should be J.D. Walton, Center Baylor, 6-3/300 The guy is smart, strong and a leader.
"May the wind be at our back, here comes the Silver and Black "
sorry need an o tackle then a guard
dt and ot are going fast in the 1st round. we can get a guard later in the draft. everything looks good for now
by sports with steve on Mar 22, 2010 8:10 AM PDT reply actions
If the Raiders draft Iupati at 8...
They will have by far and away the two highest drafted guards starting on their line in the history of the league. I am all for them drafting Iupati, but not at 8.
Only dull people are brilliant at breakfast.
lupat is the kind of guy
that will take all the analyists talks of him never becoming a tackle in the pros and tell them to pound salt and will be moved outside in a couple years to despite them. this dude is a fucking warrior and would return kicks if gary russell told him he couldnt and would do better than him. hes that kind of leader and man!
by rodeosnake12 on Mar 22, 2010 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
+1
He is definitely “the right stuff”
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 22, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Hahaha kick returner! That is great.
Hell, G Russell kinda looks like a lineman. I guess it would only be fair that the Raiders draft a T and he is G and then draft a G and have him end up a T.
Either way, he sounds like a great addition to any team. It also seems the Raiders would be reaching for him at 8. If that is their guy, then trade down. I want the Raiders to utilize the value they have.
Only dull people are brilliant at breakfast.
I was of the opinion that drafting Iupati #8
was a bad idea, but the more I look at this guy the more I like the idea. So I’m for it, he’s more of a sure thing than Campbell and he’s a beast with a nasty attitude.
I still want to draft Linval Joseph 2nd,(another beast w/ attitude) then Angerer and Capers in the 3rd
then in the 4th we draft Chris Cook for our CB
I didn’t see a 5th round selection from you. Did we trade it?
I’m O.K. with your 6 and 7 rounds if Conner is not there we can get Manase Tonga, from BYU he looked good at the combine.
Realistically
Knowing to expect the unexpected from AD, who incidentally might bring in a GM but after the draft, who will the raiders pick (not what we need) at #8. I think that Campbell is the athletic freak that AD can’t overlook….
You can expect Campbell, don’t be surprised if you instead hear Rolando McClain or Haden’s name called on draft day for Oakland if one of the two are still there.
Both are “athletic freaks” and I doubt Al could resist them. Both I’d be very much okay with, McClain in particular. Campbell is an upgrade over anything we have, and might actually develop into a pretty good tackle in this league. I hate the pick cause it’s a huge reach, but i can’t say it makes us a worse team.
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
I wouldnt mind
picking up a corner by the name Walter Thurmond III. fantastic player from Oregon…..no character issues, unlike this newest breed of Ducks. Was injured during the season, so he has likely fallen off the radar of a lot of teams. i think he could be a solide pick in the fourth rd or so. and he is also a dynamic kick returner
He was considered a first round prospect before the season but has dropped off due to injury. Who does that sound like? Oh yeah, Michael Bush. I say great move if we get him.
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
in that scenario I guess we could take Angerer second, Linval Joesph or Troup third, and Thurmond in the second.
This is also a scenario I like.
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
I like the idea of getting Torrel Troup
Or Linval Joseph in the later rounds.
John Conner would be a nice addition.
we just got an additional pick
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-announces-compensatory-draft-selections.html
The NFL announced that three teams, the Oakland Raiders, Miami Dolphins and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, were given a compensatory pick even though they didn’t incur a net loss of compensatory free agents.
I really like it
Not sure about the cornerback, I’m really high on Ghee, Owusu-Ansah, and AJ Jefferson (Tall, fast, and long), but I like almost every single pick in your mock.
Unfortunately for us, that means that the Raiders will do nothing like this at all.
Don't Trade Nnamdi Idiots!!!
Bring Back Bruce!!!
No "G" @ #8
Position does not merritt that high of pick…Although the “OT” will already be gone so it could be a possibility but I’m lookin “DB” here because I think that’s what Al wants and either or could help our “D”…
With Nnamdi and Hayden at the corners we start looking like a shut-down backfield again…
Add that “S” to the list of “MM” n Huff and we have a high potential for a great 5 man backfield if our young "CB"s continue to develop…
4-2-5 “D”…Rush 4 blitz 1 w 2 "LB"s as run support in the base scheme…
The only knock is that the “S” avoids physical contact so weak against the run so I think “CB” will get the call and he’s great at “M-M” coverage….
" "
I think either would be a good pick. Either Joe or Iupati. Joe would give us a great defensive backfield, but Iupati would automatically improve our O-Line. Plus, there are a few good CB’s in the later rounds that would greatly benifet from Nnamdi.
In Bruce We Trust
i wouldnt take Hayden
with our first round pick. I just dont think he is worth that high of a selection. I think it is either OT, DT, or MLB.
He was a lot slower than advertised and he is a little undersized.
"WR" needed or will "DHB" be able to contribute 2010
As The Oakland Raiders 2010 off-season workout program enters its second week, Raiders.com caught up with WR Darrius Heyward-Bey, who is entering his second season, for a Q&A.
Raiders.com: How has the offseason been so far?
DHB: It’s been good, I went home, relaxed with a vacation. It’s good to get away for a little bit, but I’m glad to be back.
Raiders.com: What are your personal goals this year?
DHB: My personal goal is to just help this team win. We want to get to the playoffs. I want to do better, catch more balls and become a playmaker on this team.
Raiders.com: How does it feel working with strength and conditioning coach Brad Roll?
DHB: It’s good, he has me working harder. I feel like I am getting stronger. I came in weighing a little bit more and it’s a good look for me. We’ll see how we feel when I get to mini- camp.
Raiders.com: What’s your outlook for 2010?
DHB: The outlook is good, man. I have a new frame of mind. I have a new outlook on my career.
Raiders.com: Since you were going through Draft preparations this time last year, what was going through your mind?
DHB: This time last year, I just came off the combine and my pro day. I was really excited how I performed there. During this time, I started making visits to teams and teams were working me out. Probably, around this time the Raiders came and worked me out. And, that’s when I knew they had interest. For those guys out there who are doing that, I know that there really excited that the draft is coming up.
They also converted Holland back to WR
It’s on Raiders.com too, a note to a different news article. I wonder what’s cooking…
by Spirals galore on Mar 23, 2010 5:27 AM PDT up reply actions
This was the note in an article on Raiders.com. (Name of article: Tuesday News and Notes)
Jonathan Holland who converted from wide receiver to cornerback last season is moving back to wide receiver. He will switch from #23 to #17.
by Spirals galore on Mar 23, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
NIce draft
but #8 is too high for the G, and I think we need other positions in the 2nd before taking another corner.
I love how we sit here and run our predictions knowing that Al is running things and common sense really has nothing to do with it. It will be an Al Davis draft (Dez Bryant or Taylor Mays), and we will have to deal with it.
"We can't stop here... This is bat country."
No "WR" @ #8
Dez is too slow to draw enough attention according to what I read….Never seen him though…I think we make a move at “BM” from the Donkos and they go after Dez but we will make some smoke on this one to get the Donkos more interested in trading with us…
by PantyRaider on Mar 22, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I like the top of your mock, hope it happens just like that
Love Iupati too. I don’t think it’d be too hard to see Cable getting a new G, if Al can give him anymore leeway at this point in his tenure. Sort of a big IF, I guess. But it’d be fun to see then run some smashmouth behind Iupati.
The blind stares of a million pairs of eyes, lookin hard but won't realize, that they'll never see the C. And when I'm rollin by, you can't see me!
How could you?????
Lose Morrison for Angerer???? For shame. The guy has 30" arms, its hard to wrap someone up with t-rex arms. He isn’t good in coverage and if you think he is better against the run then Morrison you will be in for a very severe surprise come season time. No Rookie MLB aside from McClain could improve the MLB position in any immediate sense IMO. Hope I didn’t go too harsh on you, but man its a regression. Lose Mr. 53, he is the one that doesn’t belong in our defense.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
Howard
Lost his job to Trevor Scott, he is a backup. Wimbley has the LOLB position locked and Scott has the right. Do you know how many sacks Howard has in his career? 2 and 1 of them was the QB running out of bounds. Scott had 7 in half a year of playing the same position. Howard cannot get through the lines, whereas Scott is very capable of doing so.
This is not a knock on Howard, he is very gifted but his skill set is as a coverage LB. Not the type of LB we need. He belongs in a Cover 2. We run the wrong defense for Howard to be effective.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
Somebody is going to have to play the other DE spot
don’t be surprised if you see Wimbley with his hand in the dirt!
They are playing him at LOLB.
Read up on it. Seymour, Richardson, and Shaughness are our current DE’s. We need some guy we can rotate, most likely a nickel pass rusher and granted they might play Wimbley on occasion with his hand in the dirt as you say. But thinking of him as a mainstay at that position is just a manipulation of reality on our part.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
Not necessarily out of the question. When we picked-up Wimbley I visited Cleveland's blog and there were
comments about how he was more effective at DE – had a great rookie season there in fact with double-digit sacks. If Howard remains a Raider then Wimbley displaces Rich Seyless on 3rd long and Howard plays opposite Scott.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 24, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Howard at LOLB?????
You can’t be serious. He can’t even play ROLB in our system and you want to move him to where is role has increased trench time. That would be a huge mistake. I love the idea of Wimbley at LOLB. We will be sending the heat for once! All the years we complain about the lack of a blitz and now we finally get it in a BIG way. Branch, Mitchell, Scott and Wimbley either side of the field is a decapitation waiting to happen. Getting 4 sacks from our safeties and 14 from our linebackers will go a LONG way in improving our defense. Howard doesn’t belong outside of a backup role anymore. He can’t play ROLB at the level of a guy who is playing there for the first time in half a season, and he certainly doesn’t belong on the other side where he if any place he belongs at ROLB. Howard is a wasted talent in Oakland. Trade him for a second and I will do backflips! Love the guy but he doesn’t fit here at all. He belongs in the cover 2 that kiffen was trying to install here.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
Put Howard on the weak side and let Trevor play strong (Left or Right isn't the issue)
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 24, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Wimbley is starting at LOLB
Howard does not have a starting position with the Raiders. He is a backup. He is not a guy you want playing the strongside, he doesn’t have the muscle to do it as he sucks around lineman and his run defense is pathetic.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
Did I not say put Howard on the weak side, i.e. the other side away from the TE? Left and Right
Howard has started for Oakland since 2006 – that’s four years. So he didn’t start a few games last year – don’t assume he’s washed up.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 24, 2010 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Howard and Scott played both LB positions, mostly late in the year when our defense was at its finest. I doubt the team will mess with that.
Howard is most definitely a starter. He’s outstanding in coverage, aggressive in the run, his only problem is he was constantly being attacked by the guards and centers that got through our defensive line. Hence, we need a better offensive line as this was an issue for every LB we played.
Howard is a very high energy guy, and this spreads throughout the defense if you watch them closely. You can’t underestimate this team’s defense when it’s playing with a lot of energy and pep. That all starts with guys like Howard, Branch, and Scott.
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
Where is Howard Starting?
No where. Scott took his job from him and he can’t play LOLB. Wimbley is. Aggressive in the run is a bunch of bologna, maybe on screens when he has no one in front of him. Howard DOES NOT FIT our 4-3. He can’t blitz, how many sacks does Howard have career wise? 2, and 1 was the QB running out of bounds. Scott had 7 in half a year of starting at the same position. If you didn’t notice a dramatic improvement to our LB’s when Scott was there, then you weren’t watching the same games as me. There is NO way, Thomas Howard is a guy you want starting on the strongside, he could barely hold his own on the weakside. LB’s are supposed to deal with guards and center’s its kind of their job.
High energy I will give you, over hyped by raider fans most definitely. We all know he has the talent, but its just for a wrong team.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
Cable at Owners Meeting
Kamerion Wimbley will play strongside linebacker in the Raiders’ 4-3 defense — the position he played in the Browns’ 3-4 defense before he was traded to Oakland.
Cable likes Wimbley’s size and ability to rush the passer. He also likes how Trevor Scott developed as a weakside linebacker last season. Not sure where restricted free agent Thomas Howard fits in now, but we’ll see — and no, they are not switching to a 3-4 defense.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
It's the weak side vs the strong side that determine where Wimbley sets-up (not left or right)
Cable’s statements indicate Wimbley will play the strong side. If Trevor moves back to DE, Howard will do just fine at weak side.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 24, 2010 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
"He also likes how Trevor Scott develop as a weakside linebacker"
So he likes Wimbley at the strongside (typically the left side) and Scott at the weakside (typically the left side).
Is your ego sooo large you can’t handle someone else shedding new light to you.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
I got those mixed up...sorry
LOLB (typically the strong side) Wimbley
ROLB (typically the weakside) Scott
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
I would be fine with that scenario with Howard at WILL
But after Scott surpassed him so far in last years performance why would we bother? Shaughnessy is a starter, we are keeping Seymour in a rotation role with Jay Richardson as a sub. Howard would have a place in all of this but it is depth not as a starter.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
Where are you????? You big balooga you
all of a sudden your so shy.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
there is a little thing called “COMPETITION” and we still have 5 months till things get interesting. A lot can change from now to then.
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
Thats a very different position
then
Howard is most definitely a starter. He’s outstanding in coverage, aggressive in the run, his only problem is he was constantly being attacked by the guards and centers that got through our defensive line. Hence, we need a better offensive line as this was an issue for every LB we played.
As of now Howard is depth. Probably the best depth LB in the NFL, but depth none the less. Which also makes him ideal trade bait. Seeing how he has a very limited future with the organization, now would be the ideal time to collect a pick or two for him.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
howard is a great LB
if anything, if I were to choose between Wimbey and Howard, how can you not choose howard?
BB praises a lot of guys, just like cable praised wimble, but that doesn’t mean that by the end of training camp that they’ll stick with their position.
I’ll start Howard over wimbley any day of the week. He beats wimbley in virtually ever intangible on the field. If anything Wimbley should be the depth.
And IF wimbley is the definite starter no matter what happens, then its likely that howard will play MLB.
*shock*
You realize he lost his role of Will to a guy who is starting there for the first time in his career and in half a season put 3x more sacks then Howard did in his whole Career. Right? Further you cannot tell me Howard at MLB is anything that should be considered, he is as pure a coverage LB as you can find in the league. He doesn’t fight through blocks and all his tackles are in the open field (great open field tackler btw). Putting Howard at MLB would be a regression as well. But not as bad as SLB. The role of Sam with Howard would be status quo, his skills would hardly be utilized as in running situations having to face a guaranteed 1 extra blocker would be disastrous for him. The guy is in the wrong defense. He is a Coverage LB who will excel in a Cover 2 scheme. We need guys that can mix it up in the trenches and fill gaps and BLITZ. Not guys who run away from the big guys. Sorry, I know its hard for some to hear as Howard is an extremely popular player but the case is as is unfortunately. He is being phased out in our future plans. Scott at Will and Wimbley at Sam, I think is more then enough to indicate that.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
edit:: I meant worse then playing the Sam.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
let me retort
MLB in a 4-3 REQUIRES that you have to have great coverage. check… And his awareness is above average and he has great strength. He’d make a great 4-3 MLB.
Second of all, they started Scott because they wanted to see what he can do. He played great, but howard also played on a few downs as well. Howard is one of the best 4-3 OLBs, and although you may disagree on that, you don’t see as much sacks because they don’t have him blitz a lot. Intangible wise, Howard is their best LB period.
And what makes you think Wimble will be awesome? Howard already knows the scheme, so he should be the one starting this year. Why take a risk in a guy like Wimbley?
And we hardly blitz at all, so you can’t blame the players for that, but coaching.
How does Howard have great strength?
He lost his own job at the Will and the team went and got a Sam in the offseason. I would like you to name TFL’s where you see Howard go through the line, not around it. We hardly blitz at all? Do you even watch games, particularly in the second half of the season? We finally were a blitzing team and Howard was still null and void. 0 sacks another typical year from Mr. 53 in the wrong defense. He needs to be in a cover 2 and anyone who says otherwise clearly is missing a few points about the contrast in defenses. He is a coverage LB, and wasn’t the original criticism that Morrison isn’t good enough against the Run to play MLB? So which is it, Howard is great in Coverage so lets play him at MLB (a position he has never played btw)? Or Morrison stinks against the run we need a new MLB? btw, read my quote.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
I do watch games, and many of us here have cried out for them to blitz countless amount of times.
Howard does have strength. He can beat the blockers on the outside. If anything, he may not be as consistent as you want him to be, but he can do it. I’ve seen him do it. we got an OLB because we have no one opposite of howard that can stop the run. Scott can pass the rusher great, but he has struggled to stop the run at times.
And I think Howard can play MLB mainly because he has enough awareness and coverage ability to both contain the middle of the field, and run to where the RBs are very quickly.
And you say lack of productivity? This was probably his best year!
79 tackles, 2 sacks, 6 PASSES DEFENDED, and 1 forced fumble.
the only thing that decresed was the amount of tackles, which he had 90 something the previous year. And this is in the span of the three years he was with us. But he improved every thing else stat wise. Who knows. Maybe it’s because they had Scott try out his position for awhile, but howard will be a starter, I guarantee it.
Which begs a question: Please tell me how he wasn’t productive AT ALL WITH US! I mean really? you tell me I don’t watch the games, but come on man! You think because I’m a pats fan I don’t follow up on my beloved raiders? I watch the games, and I know he is our most productive LB on the team in more categories than kirk is.
(first answer my question)
The conditions changed for Thomas Howard in 2009. Compare his situation in prior years:
2008 season, Howard played OLB with Kalinda Edwards in front of him on the strong side DE, Edwards didn’t stop the run as effectively as DEs Trevor Scott and Rich Seymour who played near Howard and this lead to more tackles for Howard in 2008 than in 2009.
2007 season, Thomas Howard played OLB with Derrick Burgess in front of him on the strong side, DE. Burgess was in swift decline and later traded to N.E. (after having two good seasons with Oakland, ‘05, ‘06). This accounts for Howard having more tackles than in 2009.
In 2006, Howard played OLB with Nnamdi Asomugha playing on the opposite side of the field – LCB; as a result, there was more activity on Howard’s side of the field than there was in 2009 when Asomugha played on the same side as Howard.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 26, 2010 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions
So, reduced stats don't necessarily equate to drop in performance
I agree with you, Howard is a player we should keep and play.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 26, 2010 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions
How does one
Have great awareness at a position they have never played before? I can’t remember specifically saying “lack of productivity” but rather his skill set isn’t best suited for what we are requiring now from our OLBs.
You use words to refute more then I find evidence for. You are saying things I have never heard from another Raider fan’s mouth or analyst or anywhere to be honest.
I don’t think your playing fair, so I am just going to drop it and feel more then confident to leave it at
“We’ll see……..”
Your ideas are yours, I have expressed my opinion on them. It would be nice if we could get some impartial to this discussion fans to chime in their thoughts.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
Using context
Is an excuse, similar to the way in which one says Kirk isn’t all he is cracked up to be but give him a NT and he would be better.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
Wouldn't Kirk perform overall more better if we did have a nose tackle?
And context are things to consider depending on what you are talking about. Thomas obviously had a reduced tackling season due to more help defensively.
to answer your first question
A MLB and OLB has very similar key things that are needed at both positions. If one guy has great awareness at MLB, chances are he’ll have great awareness at OLB as well. In howards instance, he has great pass coverage awarness and he has a good nose for where the ball carrier is goin, and quickly arriving there. He can transition that to MLB. It’s not like he gets a -1 on any of his abilities because, well, that’s one of his abilities.
as for my “refutes,” I am just saying what I’ve seen. When I watch a game, I look for any noticeable things that are going on. Are we generating pressure from anywhere? Who’s blitzing? Who’s not? If a guy catches the ball, where did he catch it in what part of the field? These are some I have off the top of my head. I obviously don’t answer all of these questions every single play, but I try to keep track of what I am seeing.
Howard is a great player. Look up more highlights of him on youtube. He’s better in his current position than you think.
don't mean to offend or seem
like my nose is in the air. Youtube highlights don’t mean anything. They are just highlights, they are very much the tip of the iceberg.
So Howard is good against the run and well suited for the MLB position? In your opinion.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
yep
and you can get more in highlights than you think.
Look at more than the stuff they do, look at their intangibles. Look at how they react on certain plays, and what they do in certain situations. I look at some of their strengths, and see what consequences they have of using them too frequently. like when a guy continues to Accelerate RIGHT when the RB gets the ball, and makes a tackle. You see the positive, but what you should also see that, play action can effect him, or trick plays. He may even have trouble tackling very quick backs, or backs who are known to break tackles, but it all also depends on how he tackles too.
He sucks against the Run, unless there is nobody between him and the runner
He just can’t fight through blocks. Not saying Morrison is Ray Lewis or anything but Morrison showed tremendous steps this year. He greatly improved his run defense skills and focused far less on the coverage aspect of the game. Which is exactly what we should want to see from Mr. 52. Howard as of now is depth and hopefully trade bait as he is surely gone after this season, given how things are playing out. But it is early and a lot of things can happen, but you don’t bench your starting Will for a guy who never played there and then pick up a starting caliber Sam for nothing.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
he doesn't fight blocks, he goes around them.
he uses his speed to try and get around the defender. And because he has some trouble face to face with a blocker, that’s why I think he’ll be great at MLB. He has the speed to cover the field, he has great zone coverage and above average man coverage, and he has above average awareness to find the runner, and stop him. Also, as long as we get a great DT in the draft, it wil make things a lot easier on the LB core overall.
Which by the way, I need to say that our LBs were not as successful because the DL could not stop the run last year. Or at least we still had trouble with it.
Wimbley is not the answer to our prayers.
2nd of all
It goes
RE
NT
UT
LE
Wimbley is playing LOLB not DE. Shaughnessy’s stronger at the LE position then the RE position.
Scott is a ROLB in our defense.
Selvish Capers would be a horrible move at RT his strength is his legs not his upper body.
After taking Gallery in the top 10, there is no way we do the same thing again. There are great Guards in this draft, that can be had much later and for wayyyy better value.
Chris Johnson has competition with SR26, his strength is playing outside not in the nickel role. Ever notice how we win games when Nnamdi is hurt? Guess where SR26 is playing?
Further, Chris Johnson is a #1 Corner for half the teams in the league. No ONE in the NFL has a tougher assignment then Chris Johnson, he could play lights out all day long and his pass attempts are going to always be targeted around him. A rookie would get killed taking that role away from him. If anything I would like a solid nickel corner, so we could use SR26 and CJ37 (lol) in more of a rotational role, so they can stay fresh and step out and observe more of the game.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
sorry for the confusion
In his depth chart he has the line mixed up it goes like this, forgive my crappy attempt but it should explain itself.
LT——> <———-RE
RG NT
C
UT
LG
RT LE
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
again ugh it came out wrong
With the positions going against each other
LT RE
LG NT
C
RG UT
RT LE
The nose plays on the right side and the UT plays on the left. The positions were mixed up in the depth chart. Just a minor detail. Don’t mean to be such a stickler.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
I'd rather see them
have hung on to Fargas and keep Bush, then drafting ANOTHER running back. Especially, while McFadden is such a project and commanding a large salary.
I don’t understand why people are still wanting to draft even more DBs when they’ve been doing it almost every year, often in the first round, and most of them are busts or playing for other teams. Even Huff can’t really be considered worthy of 1 round pick yet, even if he is getting better. Meanwhile, the secondary is one of the Raiders stronger units as opposed to the rest of the defense. I mean, just compare the rankings of the pass defense and the run defense vs. the rest of the league over the last several years.
Do you really want Routt as the #3 corner on this team. At this point we only have 3 corners. We were so low on depth and so horrible we had Holland, a WR, playing dime corner. That should never happen in the NFL.
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
Routt
is very under appreciated by Raider fans. Yes he has trouble with small slot receivers but that is a mismatch to the receivers advantage. I would like to see Routt get more opportunities to play outside at the LCB position. He has all the talent to emerge, and this Chris Johnson would be better suited size and skill wise to man the nickel. Have Routt play as a LCB specialist for nickel downs.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
Please! He hits on the level of Cromartie, i.e. like a girl
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 24, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
c'mon
its not that bad, I mean he isn’t the Awesome One granted but he’s not that bad. Plus his reach in coverage is sick, Routt has excellent coverage skills its just those small quick ones will always get him.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
He's not a good tackler and being a decent cover-man isn't enough when backs break outside or screens develop near him
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 24, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
but that is something we can improve on with our front 7 and should be doing anyway
Plus with the emergence of Tyvon “I will tackle jesus” Branch and the soon to be Mike “run the other way” Mitchell we won’t have to worry that much about our corners tackle ability just their ability to shut down their man in coverage.
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
Jesus.
Am I convincing myself to trade Nnamdi? WTF!
"I need a couple A's for Q's, I'm not an Asshole I'm just a little confused"
-Aesop Rock
Fair enough
But what I’m saying is, if all we need is depth, we shouldn’t waste a draft pick on it. Just bring in a free agent. We definitely have holes amongst the starting positions that need to be filled, and I’m just saying we should use the draft picks on those. Especially with the Raiders tendency to waste picks anyway or draft special cases. The O-Line, in particular, needs as much attention as it can get. We could spend half the draft just on that, but, of course, would be failing to address the run defense problem.
Looking for back-ups isn't the way to go. There are enough guys coming in as starter prospects who disappoint
who can fill the back-up roles. We should always try to bring in players who have a shot at starting. That’s why the draft needs to target DT, OT, CB, G, C, FB the exact positions we need to upgrade.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 24, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Center to me is not a need that needs addressed right now. Satele only had one year to learn the zone-block scheme and only a few weeks to actually play it. He showed flashes of brilliance and I’d like to see him build on that in his second year in the scheme.
I’m more concerned with getting someone to rotate with CJ at the second corner spot. All he had to rotate with was Routt. Yikes. We need another starting quality corner who can come in and share the insane load of passes that come towards whoever is opposite Nnamdi. CJ can’t do it on his own and I never want Routt opposite Nnamdi.
Evey- "Are you a crazy person?"
V- "I'm quite sure they'll say so."
V for Vendetta, blowing your mind away since 2005.
I'm with you about not wanting an RB in this draft with the exception of a blocking FB ~ 6th or 7th rnd.
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 24, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Iupati but not with No 8
I think we can find a solid G later on in the draft
1 McClain
2 C. Brown (he might slip strictly a ZBS OT)
3a Linval Joseph
3b AOA (born on sunday) (for the pending Morrison loss)
4 Zane beadles
5 Jarrett Brown or Zac Robinson (he looked good at senior bowl)
The future is uncertain... and the end is always near. JMorrison
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