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Around SBN: Now They've Screwed Spurs, UEFA Willing To Review Rule

Raider fan requests (spoiled brat demands) right now!

Alright, while the rest of the league doesn't realize it, we've turned the corner without even playing a regular season game. We've assessed our strength as playoff worthy and our leadership as willing and able to to get us into the 2011 post-season games.

But being Raider adherents, are we satisfied with merely "making the playoffs?"  I'm not. I want a Championship immediately and the spoils that come with absolute victory, the respect, recognition, fear and trembling from opponents, better beer and decent monitors, win streaks, domination, blowouts, Raider pro-bowlers and sustained double-digit win records forever.

What is left on your wish list - what do you other demanding brats want right now that a decent off-season and draft haven't provided you?

Poll
What more do you want?
I want an OT like Flozell or Gaither right now!
409 votes
I want a brute NT to insure our middle is run proof.
757 votes
I want better quality beer at home games, like Lagunitas, Racer 5, Green Flash West Coast IPA.
51 votes
Just better monitors at the Coliseum - our team is assembled and will do great.
36 votes
I want a big name WR to come in and take over.
334 votes
Something else, dammit!
157 votes

1744 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 129 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I want it all, damn it!

But I voted for the NT, because I think a Tackle may be more beneficial this year, but I am hoping for the long term we may have the answers on the roster. I don’t see this with the NT position.

Oh, and screw the better beer. I crappy beer…at a much cheaper price!

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 13, 2010 10:55 PM PDT reply actions  

Agreed...

what I failed to convey is that instead of wishing for a $12 Lagunitas, I would wish for a $2 Miller High Life.

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 13, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey Noontide

Btw, I joined you on the limerick thread
I thought some of us should nut up and represent

by Raaddad on May 14, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good! Those crazy Donkeys were having a field day with our Raiders!

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 14, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I liked your efforts (and they sure did)

At least the shoe is on the other foot this year:
we had a good draft and their’s looks shakey

by Raaddad on May 14, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just looked at the post again...

you should change your name to MC Raaddad or maybe lil’ Raaddad with thems rhymin’ skillz! I agree about the draft! We got their MLB and they got Tebow and took a WR much higher than he was projected. I think that says it all.

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 14, 2010 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

that shit was fun

I believe I rhymed a prediction of a spoil… and it was quite well received by the Donx fans.

and they were fully aware it could happen. and they were right!

"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew

by brhynno on May 14, 2010 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's all about the stand with....

The 24oz corona baby! Don’t have to get up as frequently and you save a few bucks if you’re buying a few of the smaller cups

by Wern on May 14, 2010 1:19 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Good point...

I hereby ammend my wish to affordable 40’s of bottom shelf beer!

40 oz to freedom is the only chance I have to feel good even though I feel bad—

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 14, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

When I was in the seventh grade, I used to go to my friends aunt's house to listen to his cousin's band...

turns out his cousin is Bud Gaugh, and the band later became Sublime. The irony of the story is I never realized it until they somehow showed up at parties we attended from everywhere from USCD to UCSB, with at least three shows in between. Got to know Brad when he lived on the east side in LB, and of course the guys who became the lb dub all stars and all. I believe Brad’s wife still resides in Sunset Beach (Huntington Harbor) CA.

Little tangent. Thought I’d share. I always knew they had some catchy tunes, and I think I heard 40 oz. to freedom in its inception.

"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew

by brhynno on May 14, 2010 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

We're not worthy...we're not worthy.

This is awesome. Sublime was a great and innovative band. It seemed like they would play anywhere and for a long time no one really cared about them. They also seemed like fairly cool down to earth dudes who would have been fun to party with. This is a cool story. Fuck heroin….

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 15, 2010 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

This is grossly unfair - I want to vote for at least three of your options

…and because no one had voted for one of them – better beer – I went ahead and cast my vote. That said, I first and foremost want OT and NT.

by Spirals galore on May 13, 2010 11:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Spirals, long time no hear from

I assume the finals schedule at school is to blame?

"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew

by brhynno on May 14, 2010 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have my own business now - been busy with it.

Come check out my site, and especially the blog, where I talk about SBP and its role, among other things.

The link for the site is www.christotechne.com, and the blog is at http://christotechne.wordpress.com. Will appreciate the traffic.

by Spirals galore on May 15, 2010 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Very cool. I've often wanted to study Gaelic, another not just dead, but officially, "extinct" language by definition.

I find it very sad that so many languages wear the term, “dead,” these days. It inspires me to keep them as much alive as I can.

Latin is among them. Bravo on your endeavors, and good luck! I’ll check out the blog, too.

"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew

by brhynno on May 15, 2010 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks, Brhynno. I did create a stir of sorts

on Facebook with the mention of the Silver and Black Pride blog in conjunction to the Bar Method.

Here is what the Bar Method Los Angeles published as HEARD ON THE BLOGOSPHERE: The effect on my abs and lower back is astonishing, and my genetically weak knees do not bother me anymore. (from my blog’s About page). They alsso added the following excerpt:

I am also an avid Raiders fan. My favorite Raidersblog is www.silverandblackpride.com. Even if you are not a Raiders afficionado, you should check them out – the quality is high and the exchanges dynamic.

So this is what the ladies at the LA Bar Method blog said in relation to the above:

Bar Method Los Angeles This must be our “male” month for blogs and comments! Hurray!
Yesterday at 11:27am · Flag.

Joanna Massie Stein One day my workout partner and I will get our men to come with us to class! one day….
Yesterday at 4:38pm · Flag

Come on, girls! We live in the enlightened 21st century, no?

by Spirals galore on May 15, 2010 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Props to you Spirals for having the balls to pursue your passion!

That is a fine looking web page. I hope it does well for you.

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 15, 2010 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dallas just cut Flozell Adams

The Dallas Cowboys started the purge of some underachieving veterans by cutting starting left tackle Flozell Adams and free safety Ken Hamlin on Friday.

Adams, 34, had the longest tenure of any Cowboys player. He was a second-round pick in 1998 out of Michigan State and was a five-time Pro Bowl selection. He missed only 14 games in his 12-year career with Dallas.
Read story
“I have never experienced what it is like to have a team that doesn’t enjoy excellent play at the left tackle position,” Cowboys owner/general manager Jerry Jones said in a statement released by the team. “When we first selected Flozell, we thought we would move Larry Allen to left tackle, but that never happened because Flo was able to step right in and play at a high level very early on in his career.”

But in 2009, Adams wasn’t as dominant, and the organization began looking at other options. Doug Free spent some time at left tackle during practices and games, and when Adams suffered a calf injury in Dallas’ playoff loss to Minnesota, Free took over.

by Sons-of-Blanda on May 13, 2010 11:06 PM PDT reply actions  

They couldn't pay him. Doug Free was a viable backup, and considerably more affordable to a cash strapped team

Hard to believe that stadium could have a cash strapped team. Several players admit Free is a drop off in several aspects. The false starts that were so costly this year were the impetus to jettison him and the large paycheck.

If we can sign him for a reasonable contract, and short, he’ll help develop Veldheer, Campbell, and maybe even Barnes or next year’s draft.

"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew

by brhynno on May 14, 2010 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Adams wouldn't be a horrible signing, he's a vet and could be released right away if signed to a 1 year deal.

As of right now, he can start at RT. That way, he can rotate with Jared Veldheer at that position. He can show him the ropes and hopefully put up a solid performance.

In Bruce We Trust

by JaKe. on May 13, 2010 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Get him on the horn!

Although, I don’t imagine he is the best fit for the ZBS, but hey neither is Walker or Barnes.

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 13, 2010 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

and a dr pepper bitch

you better not have no brothers bitch thats a mistake

by Tbag00 on May 14, 2010 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

HAHAHA, heres your cookie

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

Why do people get all pissed off when you say something that they don't agree with that isn't all flowers and sunshine? People take this type of stuff too seriously

by dubzfan on May 14, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

and who would those guys be?

Failure builds character; success reveals it

by signcut on May 15, 2010 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

My question too. None of them are solid to proficient. Henderson is probably the biggest disappointment so far.

by rightnasty on May 17, 2010 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Eh. I know more about D than O, hence the reason I'm biased for a NT.

I’d love to see our Defense become what it once was, and enable to do that, we need a big, strong NT.

As for our OTs, I may have reached a bit. I like Henderson alot and I think he can develop into a great LT. And Kahliff is good, but only at LT, so he may be useless. And Walker and Veldheer are both decent..I expect Walker to play Guard however and Veldheer to be a great RT..

In Bruce We Trust

by JaKe. on May 17, 2010 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Vote

I voted NT and I want to see the Raiders D straight breaking chumps in half. I want to see Houston and McClain do a real life wishbone on someone. I want to see Branch hit someone so hard their helmet breaks.

by MacRaider on May 14, 2010 12:35 AM PDT reply actions  

Let me try this one more time (short & sweet)

Yesterday, I gave Noontide’s blog alot of thought, and 1 misclick later, everything i had put down was gone, so I gonna keep this short And sweet !!! We did good in the draft, and every pick was feasible, no reach’s!!! Free agency pick ups filled some needs, but hopefully there not through !!!! Traded a 4th round pick in next years draft for a starting QB !!! I don’t care what anybody says about Campbell ( esp. the haters ) !!! His stats got better every year he started, and remember we’re talking about in WASHINGTON !!!! So far so good, don’t stop now !!!!! I want it all, No, WE, The NATION WANT IT ALL !!! NOW !!! Everyone talks about the last 7 yr’s, but you forget about the 2 yrs before!!!! I hav’nt !!! Go get a NT AND a OT, and while u’r at it , bring in TO for the WO position !!! If he kept relatively quiet in Buffalo, He knows to keep his mouth shut in the TOWN!!!! lol. I got feeling they think Kelly is gonna earn his money, this year, but if he dosen’t showup in game 1, cut his azz( DeAngelo Hall) Mike Mitchell, Game 1, don’t show up, cut his AZZ !!!! Everywhere else we’re looking pretty tight. I went for the NT too. I tried to keep it short, but this is as short as I could get!!! ONE FRUSTRATED DIEHARD RAIDERFAN4LYFE here, Can’t you tell !!!!! NOW, Let us pray!!!!

by papabegood on May 14, 2010 1:51 AM PDT reply actions  

Will Mike even PLAY in Game 1?

Assuming Branch and Huff start at Free and Strong, respectively, how is Mitchell going to get a chance to perform, outside of special teams? He provides decent (at the very worst) depth at S, so I’m not seeing the gain to be made in chopping him.

When the ride gets rough, only the Ruff Ryde...

by Nonchalant on May 14, 2010 2:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nor am I. Plus, he has the potential to be a great Safety at some point.

He needs work on his coverage skills, but other than that, he’s gravy.

In Bruce We Trust

by JaKe. on May 14, 2010 2:15 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Clarification on Mitchell

Considering him being a second round pick, for 1, the amount of money he’s making , for 2, and all he’s playing is special teams !!! Don’t get me wrong, I want to believe all the hype is true, and he could be the 2nd coming of Tatum. And going along with the theme of the topic, we need him to be that player NOW !!!! Not 2 or 3 years from now, but RIGHT NOW !!!! I want it all dude!!!

by papabegood on May 14, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Replacement !!!!

That’s a good Question SOB !!!! If we couldn’t pick up someone and had to go with the roster at hand, and this might sound real out there, but i would stick Howard at the strong safety position!!! Think about it for a minute!!! From the LB position he’s weak on run support, but coming from the Safety spot !!!! You know he’s fast enough to stay with any Tightend in the league, plus with his size and strengh he could go up against some of the bigger wideouts. Mind you, this is with the roster on hand. And if I’m not mistaken, he came into the college as a Safety!!! We need someone to the fear of the gods into any receiver, coming across the middle. That’s Raider Football !!!! We’ve always have had BadAzz, Good size Safeties that could bring it.

by papabegood on May 14, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

ahhhhhhh

That’s what i thought !!!! This use to be my position, and he wouldn’t have to deal with as many lineman coming from that spot, on running plays!!!! So I have some Idea what it would take!!! Like I said earlier, I want Mitchell to be that man, but if he’s not up to it, put the best players out on the field. Cutting him might be a little too drastic, but for the money he’s making, and the draft postion he was taking at, He has to play more downs!!! Branch is good, but small for the position. Huff is a FS/C period, and he’s getting to the ball more from the FS position, and his tackling is improving.

by papabegood on May 14, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Entertainment !!!! You got that right !!!

Being true Raiderfans, theirs nothing more entertaining for us than watching a knockout being delivered on a receiver going cross the middle. After playing the position myself, and watching over the years of play of Tatum, Atkinson, Rhinefeld, (#37 I think that was his name, he use to bring it too) and going way way back, Fred ( The Hammer ) Williamson and course Ronnie Lott !!!! (yeah I’m old School) This is the type of safety play the Nation is use too. It time to get back to that type of play !!! Make some area’s of the field OFF F*&^ing LIMITS, that’s what I’m Talking about . If I’m gonna spend MY hard earned money, close to $300 every Sunday they play at Home(2 tickets on the 40 yard, Parking is NOW $25 & drinks included in that $300) Not to mention the money spent on tail gating, I want the sh*t to be worth it !!! Not so much unconstrained thinking, but RaiderBall thinking. This what we use to bring to the table, Smash mouth running, quick strike receiving, and a bend, but don’t break Defense! The sooner we get back to that type of play, the only thing we’ll have to deal with is the OFFICIATING/NFL !!!Because you know those haters will be back !!! This rant ( and I’m sorry for that, just had to come out) goes to your original post of being a SPOILED BRAT RAIDERFAN4LYFE, AND DAMN IT, I WANT IT, AND I WANT IT NOW !!!! Now let us Pray !!!!

by papabegood on May 15, 2010 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

No shame whatsoever in asking for what we should. Far too many of our brethren are showing signs

of being beaten down and are too afraid to aim higher than an 8-8 wash. One thing Cable & Co. have done is to purposely pursue young players from and with winning traditions in order to clean out the mediocre (or worse) mentality. It all starts in the head and heart and if people don’t believe that it’s possible for them then they are doomed to fulfill their pusillanimous expectations.

by Sons-of-Blanda on May 15, 2010 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cutting Mike Mitchell isn’t going to solve anything.

The Ultimate Opportunist

by Rated-R Superstar on May 14, 2010 6:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think Flozell can still play and would help us. When he left the Minnesota playoff game with an injury, Jared Allen completely took over the game. Flo may not be a Pro Bowl-caliber guy anymore but he’s a legit starting LT. He’d be a perfect short-term solution and allow us to work Veldheer and Campbell in gradually. We would actually have— gasp— good depth at offensive line.

by SilverLaker on May 14, 2010 2:00 AM PDT reply actions  

Co-sign

Couldn’t have put that any better; I voted for OT as well; get the ground game going and protect JC’s blind side. Give that cat some time to sling rocks (ok, that sounded a bit wrong…) and the offense will finally regain the balance it lost back when Callahan took over HC duties…

When the ride gets rough, only the Ruff Ryde...

by Nonchalant on May 14, 2010 2:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think our O-line is better than our D-line, so I voted NT.

Without a large NT, our run D will suffer. But our O-line can play well with the players they have right now.

In Bruce We Trust

by JaKe. on May 14, 2010 2:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Until I see the O-Line prove it can provide running lanes...

…I have to lean towards the O-line. The D-Line as currently configured will do fine, assuming the offense actually lets them REST, unlike last season.

When the ride gets rough, only the Ruff Ryde...

by Nonchalant on May 14, 2010 2:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

The O-line provided running lanes though. In fact, that was their strongest ability.

They just needed to improve in pass protection, and when Gallery is in, our O-line seems to hold up just fine.

And what convinces you that our D-line will do fine? We had the worst run defense last year, and the D-line was the major factor of that. Yes, we acquired 1 guy who MAY make an impact on the DL, but were still missing the NT that we were missing last year.

In Bruce We Trust

by JaKe. on May 14, 2010 2:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

The defense as a whole literally lived on the football field...

…because the offense spend 7/8 of the season in 3 & Out mode. No defense will hold up when they’re never allowed to rest due to offensive ineptitude. A 300+ lb guy with a ridiculously high motor and a true “Raider” mean streak only “may” have an impact in the running game? Au contraire, mon frere.

When the ride gets rough, only the Ruff Ryde...

by Nonchalant on May 14, 2010 4:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, the defense was on the field ALOT. And with the offensive improvements, I expect that to change.

But, the Run D sill gave up major yards in the 1st & 2nd Quarters. If their tired that early, then we need alot more help than I though.

I love Houston and I think he’ll be a Pro Bowl DE sooner or later. But that doesn’t change the fact we’re still missing a NT. Houston was moved from DT to DE. Meaning he’ll be on the outside more. Oddly enough, we have 4 excellent DE’s, yet only 1 proven DT in Tommy Kelly. Tommy can’t play to his full level without a big man next to him. Our interior of our D-line is very sketchy at the moment, without that large NT, our D-line is just DE-UT-UT-DE.

In Bruce We Trust

by JaKe. on May 14, 2010 5:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Overall the D was on the field about 32 minutes to the O's 28 minutes

Can’t blame the O for those 1st downs conversions against our week interior middle. We need a an oberman over center.

by Sons-of-Blanda on May 14, 2010 6:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also, the Raiders D gave up huge plays without prejudice.

They gave them via the middle, the outside, the middle outside, while fresh, while tired, while somewhere in between. They gave them up on a boat, in a moat, and with a goat.

To me, this was their biggest weakness. Even more than the run D in general. They just had too many lapses and missed assignments, which led to the opposition getting easy plays, running and passing.

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 14, 2010 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oh lord...and some of the pass plays in Houston

and the running plays against the Jets…it’s like the team battled allergies to tackling!

I am really hoping McClain’s demand of excellence will help erase these huge lapses.

I mean the running defense was not good, but it could be overcome with a more consistent and smart defense. They gave up 4.5 YPC carry last year, which tied them with the Saints, and if you eliminate some of the inexcusable big plays that number falls.

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 14, 2010 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Every D Raider must be a good Tackler - no ballcarrier left standing - zero tolerance

We have some good tacklers now:
Asomugha is the best tackler on the team.
Branch is good too
McClain and Houston should be good and
so are Shaughnessy, Mitchell
Some are around average: Richardson, Trevor Scott, Chris Johnson, Howard and Huff.
Then there are these:
Hiram Eugene
Stanford Routt

by Sons-of-Blanda on May 14, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Do you not think Mario Henderson can play LT? He's improved every year and it's obvious that

with he’s damn near excellent with a competent LG next to him. If we were to sign Flozell, then I’d work him in at RT, that way he can split time with Veldheer. And I think Campbell will end up at RG for good. As soon as he shows promise there, and Veldheer molds into a solid RT, then he’ll be stuck at RG. Or maybe even LG in a few years, seeing Gallery has only 3-4 years left.

In Bruce We Trust

by JaKe. on May 14, 2010 2:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like Mario as well...

I think we got that “blind side” (overused term) down as long as were all healthy but the C,RT,RG needs a upgrade.

aka GOLDENBOYWARRIOR

by gogomaplata on May 14, 2010 7:53 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Do you honestly see Henderson as a stud at LT?

Were that truly the case, Gradkowski wouldn’t have been running for his life (nor Frye or JR, for that matter). They need a proven road-grader to provide some leadership up front.

When the ride gets rough, only the Ruff Ryde...

by Nonchalant on May 14, 2010 2:17 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Stats show it, Henderson was one of the best LT's for the first half of the year. Then, Gallery went down.

And along with Galllery, our whole O-line went down. But now, I think our O=line has depth. Here’s my O-line, with back ups and rotation.

LT- 1.Henderson 2. Barnes
LG- 1.Gallery 2. Walker
C- 1.Satele 2. Morris
RG- 1.Walker 2. Campbell
RT- 1.Barnes 2. Veldheer

This way, when or if Gallery gets injured(Hopefully Not) Walker can move over to LG and Campbell can fill in a RG. It’s a risk, but if the injury happens mid-late season, then Campbell should have enough reps to fill in without the worry.

I know, Barnes didn’t perform well at RT last year, but I have a feeling that Veldheer will eventually take over and play great.

In Bruce We Trust

by JaKe. on May 14, 2010 2:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

stats

please complete the story. Henderson “allowed” the most sacks in the league; don’t have thew numbers but just the talk is enough for me. Please feel free to research the numbers. You may have confidence in him, I don’t buy his game. I would prefer to have Flo (with less false starts); we both know that Gallery has the potential/game/respect to be pro bowler. Can he last a season healthy. OL needs improvement before camp.

by raiders4liffe on May 14, 2010 6:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

You must look beyond that snaps. It was obvious that he was playing at a high level until Gallery was injured.

After that, he fell off, badly. I wouldn’t start Veldheer over him, but I would certainly start Gaither over him. Gaither is a rare talent and I’d LOOOOOVE to acquire him.

In Bruce We Trust

by JaKe. on May 14, 2010 6:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Henderson kicked the crap out of Gaither in Week 9 and 11.

Oh yeah! You know what really sucks about this? Is that if Gallery is hurt, Henderson is probably the best OL on the team.

Come on rooks! Here’s to hoping for an expdient acclimation!

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 14, 2010 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Real football

Isn’t around graphs and pie charts. Your evidence is suspect. If it was this easy, it would have been done.

But you know what, now that I think about it, I think you should run up to Alameda and bring these charts with you. I mean you could really be on to something here.

Sons- “Mr. Davis I have some very interesting data for your to see that will surely result in More Wins……….baby.”

Mr. Davis- “Did you just call me……..baby?”

Sons- “No, but if you see the way the chart is color coded, this Gaither guy is nearly the best tackle in the NFL, and I mean the Ravens are crazy to be moving that Oher guy over to the left side when they have the next Walter Jones just sitting there.”

Mr. Davis- “Don’t you think that football might be something that can’t be charted with color coded bar graphs? Hue Jackson has a little more insight then you Sons, I think he would have been more vocal about Gaither or has a bit more insight to share.”

"But my main problem with McClain is his lack of hunger – he clearly doesn’t lust for the kill" -Sons of Blanda

by DarthDavis on May 14, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Real football isn't around graphs and pie charts,

but real graphs and pie charts are around football.

Gaither is in the last year of his deal, which makes trading harder than one would expect. This somewhat limits his value to the Ravens, but teams will be hesitant to trade to someone on the last year of their deal and Gaither is going to want a shit pile of money in an extension.

By all observations or stats, Gaither is a stud. Acquiring him is more a question demands, those of the Ravens and Gaither than it is a question of his talent.

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 14, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Two common fallacies here: appeal to ignorance and appeal to authority

Do you remember after each game how your position coach would watch the film with you and grade each of your plays? and then assign a game grade? Well, that’s what this is and guess what, the Raiders do this too. It’s a very common, even universal, practice.

by Sons-of-Blanda on May 14, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

So who are the people giving these grades?

Or where is your information coming from?

"But my main problem with McClain is his lack of hunger – he clearly doesn’t lust for the kill" -Sons of Blanda

by DarthDavis on May 14, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I can say that game grade time in Raider land

is DHB’s favorite part of the week. Cable and DHB both like to point out his superior marks.

Do you not agree that Gaither would be a significant upgrade over Henderson at LT?

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 14, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am not as sold as everyone else.

I think its a case of the “grass is greener.” I still think Mario can put it together, and if he doesn’t we have Barnes and Veldheer to take over. Its not a position of 100% comfort but the depth and coachin is there. I don’t think Gaither is worth what the Ravens are asking for, IMO, a 2nd rounder or a first next year? Thats just way over priced. Veldheer is hardworking kid and Barnes has some background, why abandon it for a guy somebody else doesn’t want. We can pick up OLB’s and QB’s from other teams because we didn’t have very much promise internally to develop any. But at LT we have one young starter, a talented dedicated rookie, and a veteran trying to reclaim his recognition in the league. I think there is some good stuff there, I also wonder how much of a fit Gaither would be for the ZBS. I trust that Hue and Cable have crossed this bridge and what has and will transpires will be best for the Raiders.

"But my main problem with McClain is his lack of hunger – he clearly doesn’t lust for the kill" -Sons of Blanda

by DarthDavis on May 14, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

But don't get it twisted

I am not saying Henderson played better then Gaither, I just think the problem isn’t as simple as comparing two graphs for a solution.

"But my main problem with McClain is his lack of hunger – he clearly doesn’t lust for the kill" -Sons of Blanda

by DarthDavis on May 14, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Statistics are given here to support an opinion formed by watching games. I would despise

the opinion of anyone who forms his football opinions from magazine/blog articles, bspn, and other mediated forms. First and foremost I watch film – that is all I require to make my assessment. But, in order to persuade others (whose sensibilities may not be so refined) I support my opinion with statistics when challenged.

by Sons-of-Blanda on May 15, 2010 7:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

great!

but are you going to answer my question, whose opinion is this being based off of and what are their standards for accumulating these results? I am assuming you didn’t break out the magic markers and draw this up on your own. I think you need to site where this is coming from. And I find it funny, that you are soooooo knowledgeable about Football, yet you still rely on other peoples information similar to using those “despised” sources of information.

"But my main problem with McClain is his lack of hunger – he clearly doesn’t lust for the kill" -Sons of Blanda

by DarthDavis on May 15, 2010 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

profootballfocus is one of my sources - they generally confirm my own impressions

How Grades are assigned:
bq. Each grade given is between +2 and -2 with 0.5 increments and an average of 0. A positive intervention in the game rates a positive grading and vice versa. Very (very) little draws a +/-2 rating. In fact the distribution of non-zero grades is like this:
+2.0 0.01%
+1.5 0.3%
+1.0 16%
+0.5 37% (unbalanced because of the way WRs and HBs are rated)
-0.5 24%
-1.0 22%
-1.5 0.5%
-2.0 0.01%

The grading takes into account many things and effectively brings “intelligence” to raw statistics. For example a raw stat might tell you a Tackle conceded a sack. However, how long did he protect the QB for before he gave it up? Additionally when did he give it up? If it was within the last two minutes on a potentially game tying drive it may be rather more important than when his team is running out the clock in a 30 point blow out.

The average grade or what we would typically expect of the average player is therefore defined as zero. In reality, the vast majority of grades on each individual play are zero and what we are grading are the exceptions to this. Rating a LT as anything other than zero for a successfully completed backside seal block on a DRE is going to a level of complexity beyond the scope of this site.
The “Rules” of Grading
[Back to Top]

Because of the nature of the roles, each position is graded in a slightly different way and the definitions for each run to many pages. Whilst I’m not going to explain exactly how we grade because to some degree that’s our IP (Emphasis on P as opposed to I) and to another it’s just extremely tedious, below are a few of the key principles we use when grading:

1. DON’T GUESS
If you’re not 80% sure what’s gone on then don’t grade the play. The grades should stand up to scrutiny and criticism. It’s far better to say you’re not sure than be wrong. However, this is not an excuse for chickening out on making a judgment. What we definitely DO NOT do is raise or lower the grading because we’re not sure. Giving -0.5 rather than -1 or -1.5 because you can’t be certain what went on is wrong. The correct score is 0.

2. WE ARE NOT SCOUTS
We are not grading style or technique; just result. We aren’t looking for players with potential who have been badly coached or grading on technique. We’ve all heard the terms knee-bender, stiff hips, inconsistent footwork or over-extension etc. but as far as we’re concerned it doesn’t matter whether you know what they mean or not. All we care about is the result; did that linemen make the block he tried to make. This is Professional Football and the talent level is high enough and consistent enough to generally assume that the player at least attempted to do what their assignment was on that play.

3. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO APPORTION BLAME ON EVERY PLAY
On each play there is often a “winner”. If the Defense holds an Offense on third and three to a one yard gain they are usually considered to have “won”. It’s possible that everyone on Offense carried out their assignments properly and the play still went wrong; that’s not their fault. Sometimes the play is badly designed or sometimes the defense just does a great job. Ostensibly this site is looking at player performance, not that of the coaches.
   
bq. 4. GREAT PLAYERS SCREW UP TOO
One of the biggest annoyances to me over the years is commentators making excuses for players; well should we say “some” players. Oh it’s Brett Favre so he couldn’t possibly have overthrown the WR; Greg Jennings must just have run the wrong route etc. We look at each player as just a number rather than on reputation. We treat Walter Jones as Seattle #71 and see what comes out at the end.
   
bq. 5. ZERO (0.0) IS THE AVERAGE GRADE
If a player does something you would normally expect then this scores 0. If a LB makes an unblocked tackle 5 yards down the field or a linemen holds back a rusher for 4+ seconds. This is scored as 0. Grades are given as things which reasonably considered better or worse than average.

Normalization
bq. we could leave it there but this would lead to a number of problems. For example, as an Offensive Lineman can only be negatively graded in pass protection the perfect score in the raw data is zero. However what if a lineman plays half the number of passing plays of another guy and they both score zero? What allows you to understand the second has done the better job? This is where Player Participation comes in; to fully understand how a player has performed we need to know how many plays they’ve participated in and what role they performed.

So when we look at, say, a TE we need to know how many plays they spent out in pass routes, how many times they blocked for the run and how many times they stayed in to block for the pass. To this number we then apply a normalization factor to set the AVERAGE player in that facet of the game to zero. To simplify, if you go to the by position tab and select TE the average grade for run blocking is zero, the average grade for pass blocking is zero and the average grade for pass receiving is zero. The only exception to this is for the QB where every grade is raw and un-normalized. Why you ask? Well the process was going to be significantly more complex than for the other positions and as the QB generally came close to zero without normalization it seemed like the effort vs. reward equation wasn’t too well balanced. I’ll probably live to regret and change that decision.

by Sons-of-Blanda on May 15, 2010 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

So you are relying on an additional source for information?

Wow, oh wait I get it they “Generally” confirm my own assessments. Thats awfully convenient for you isn’t it. To have a whole website to confirm your own assessments, are you sure you didn’t design this or “invent it.” Are you the Al Gore of profootball focus?

"But my main problem with McClain is his lack of hunger – he clearly doesn’t lust for the kill" -Sons of Blanda

by DarthDavis on May 15, 2010 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Test this resource for yourself. Check it against a game you've taped and

see how they grade a few players. Find someone who knows football tell you how well they did.

by Sons-of-Blanda on May 15, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is that what you did?

"But my main problem with McClain is his lack of hunger – he clearly doesn’t lust for the kill" -Sons of Blanda

by DarthDavis on May 15, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

From the outside looking in on this thread,

I believe he told you that he did.

Al Gore? It snowed a lot in New York and unseasonably late, too. Therefore Sons is full of shit.

To your earlier comments about Gaither, I don’t believe that it is a case of the Ravens not wanting him as much as Gaither doesn’t want to be moved to RT and he wants a premium LT money. I don’t think the Ravens want to have such a huge chunk of change devoted to their T position and they are choosing Oher over Gaither, since they feel Gaither will be gone at the season’s end anyway.

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 15, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

If he did I must have missed it

I would still like for him to say that he checked this website out on his own before he went and posted it like it was a scientific study.

"But my main problem with McClain is his lack of hunger – he clearly doesn’t lust for the kill" -Sons of Blanda

by DarthDavis on May 15, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I watched game recordings and compared my impressions to this resouce

I did not find someone, as you should, to tell me that my original impressions are good. The site proved itself to me; I did not prove myself against the site.

by Sons-of-Blanda on May 15, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

How many game recordings did you compare

And what were the similarities/differences or were they the same?

"But my main problem with McClain is his lack of hunger – he clearly doesn’t lust for the kill" -Sons of Blanda

by DarthDavis on May 15, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I mean

In what ways were they off, this system can’t be 100% accurate they even say so. In your opinion, using your sample from your relevant comparison?

"But my main problem with McClain is his lack of hunger – he clearly doesn’t lust for the kill" -Sons of Blanda

"I've been aware of McClain's downside for several months and posted on it - many here agree this guy's overrated." Sons of Blanda

"McClain isn't in the game the full 30 minutes, film shows he dogs it." Sons of Blanda

by DarthDavis on May 16, 2010 4:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

My issue is with their grading of players in isolation; which undervalues game context and the effect of synergy

the most notable example is from week 12 against Dallas. That was the week I came out very strongly against Kirk Morrison (which, incidentally, touched off a debate that culminated in his being traded and our acquisition of McClain). I took a lot of heat at the time for my criticism of Kirk (who had become something of a folk hero who enjoyed ‘sacred cow’ status. My assessment of Morrison’s play on Thanksgiving varied with profootball.com’s slightly negative grade. They failed to consider the adverse impact he had on the entire D by being out of position on key plays and getting embroiled with single blockers. So these statisticians might not take the contextual impact that one player has on the whole team b/c they seem to grade a player in isolation.

by Sons-of-Blanda on May 16, 2010 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly

They grade everyone out as if it were the video game Madden almost. Gaither might have faced a blitz on said play, while Henderson had one guy to defend with help. Then they don’t count the help. The players around them, the scheme that they might run.

Take CB’s for example, they don’t count WR’s double moves, pump fakes, the down and probability of run vs pass. I mean excuses are excuses but if you know anything about football, accountability is everything but the context of the game in a large part determines the flow and final product on the field.

I think with a site like this you can take some things from it, but to let it dominate the way we view players is non-sense. Case and point being Gaither ranked #6, yet the Ravens are replacing him for Oher. There are some things they obviously missed on that one.

Back to the Hendo one, they don’t take into account the fact that Russell has horrible pocket presence or Gallery being hurt half the season and Hendo’s responsibility increased. Granted its not an excuse and he has to be ready for that but you still have to take that into consideration regarding a player. I mean we probably would have Cut Nnamdi if we took his first 4 years in with this petri dish style of evaluation.
 
Which is why my point is this stuff really doesn’t prove anything that normal statistics doesn’t, its just a different form of measuring the same thing beyond plays where a player makes a tackle or runs the ball. They make it appear more indepth but its really the same old shit, just more of it.

They are going in the right direction but the rather LARGE variables beyond their systems abilities will forever cast doubt on it for me and my ability to see it as a breakthrough in understanding the players of todays game.

"But my main problem with McClain is his lack of hunger – he clearly doesn’t lust for the kill" -Sons of Blanda

"I've been aware of McClain's downside for several months and posted on it - many here agree this guy's overrated." Sons of Blanda

"McClain isn't in the game the full 30 minutes, film shows he dogs it." Sons of Blanda

by DarthDavis on May 16, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

You dismiss them too easily. They grade conservatively

If someone is doing his job adequately he gets a “0” for that play. In a way, it’s something like the combine and the wonderlic data – the main utility of those is for those who perform way over or way under the norm. My Morrison example, however, indicated that a slightly low grade (-.5) was too conservative and I gave it to you as an example of their imperfection (measured against my assessment) rather than as a generalized condemnation. So, I’ll continue to check them out and when the green bars go up, or the red bars drop down – my attention is activated (for those games I haven’t had the opportunity to watch).

by Sons-of-Blanda on May 16, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Okay

But then why is Nnamdi rated only 17th amongst cornerbacks on that site?

by rightnasty on May 17, 2010 1:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Again, the way they score. If you're

doing your job they give you a zero. Nnamdi’s marks all hover around the baseline (zero) – he is doing his job. The irony, we know, is that his reputation eliminates situations for his getting “+” grades via interceptions, break-ups, and FFs.

by Sons-of-Blanda on May 17, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

So then

If we accept that there are mitigating factors, unmentioned variables that are not taken into account by their system, but which tell a fuller story in their own right, then of how much actual use is this website? What is it really telling us, if only part of the truth?

by rightnasty on May 17, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Some things are apparent and

accurate right away, i.e. if a player had a really bad game. But, to determine whether someone had a great game, you have to look at some of the data that went into the game grade. Nnamdi and Morrison are good examples to show the site’s weakness for weighing quantity over quality. e.g. quantity of tackles vs. quality.

by Sons-of-Blanda on May 17, 2010 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

nice stats

I mean stats report, not the content.

by raiders4liffe on May 14, 2010 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

While I myself had difficulty coming to terms with the fact that Flozell is an upgrade over any of our guys

He is. Go back and watch tape on him. While some of what is said of his underperforming when his cohorts at guard and center flailed, it is clear he lost his battles quite adeptly on his own.

While Veldheer will blossom into a starting talent, and perform well as he progresses, it’s not feasible to expect him to step in and perform at a level high enough to get us playoff wins, and I won’t be satisfied with anything less.

We’re too close at this point; address both tackle positions with starting talent now, or wonder how the season will really look.

"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew

by brhynno on May 14, 2010 7:26 AM PDT reply actions  

I love advanced statistics I follow baseball and basketball very closely and use advanced

stats all the time. However, outside of game theory most advanced football stats are somethwat flawed. For starters the season is too short, a 16 game sample size just isn’t enough to draw accurate conclusions. In baseball, for example, things like luck and opponent strength generally average out over 162 games in football there is too much noise (at least for me). On top of that there is too much dependency on surrounding players. Having good players all around you affects you in a much different (and better) way than it does in baseball. It is very hard to single out an individual in football and gauge their performance in a way that doesn’t give them any credit/discredit for surrounding skill.

I would love to be proved wrong here, so by all means teach me if I need to be taught something. But I’m just not sure I’m jumping on the bandwagon just yet.

by Nnamdi Asomugha on May 14, 2010 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes. Tom, heed these words of wisdom and do what must be done

Gaither will be costly, but completely worth it. I’m confident Al has his eyes on him. This will realize our goal.

"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew

by brhynno on May 14, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

That sounded realistic not negative

Without consistant, solid line play our offense will sputter and the D will fatigue as the carry the team… I truly believe that the game is won at the line of scrimmage.

aka GOLDENBOYWARRIOR

by gogomaplata on May 14, 2010 7:57 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

in summary

unless I missed something, the line up that Jake was kind enough to put looks mediocre at best. We need a a proven LT to stabilize, Henderson can be a depth player coming off the bench as I’m not convinced that he can take Walker on the right.

by raiders4liffe on May 14, 2010 9:11 AM PDT reply actions  

Don't we need to be spoiled first in order to be called spoiled brats?

I don’t think one level-headed off-season means we’re spoiled just yet. Anyway I voted NT since the offense will be improved just because of who we don’t have under center. Also Walker proved he could play RG in the ZBS well. If the defense has an NT that can dominate the LOS it will make this team a top five defense possibly. That alone can get us a winning record & possibly the playoffs.

by TAW on May 14, 2010 10:41 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I agree but I think this is the wrong context Sons.

That’s just my opinion. I think we can start getting greedy or spoiled when we have a replay of 1998-2002. When the team is going on 7 straight losing seasons for them to have a good off-season doesn’t warrant us being spoiled at all.

by TAW on May 14, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Of course we do.

That’s why I believe a true NT has a bigger impact on this team in terms of wins and losses than O-line help. Our O-line can hold up since we have true NFL QBs geting rid of the ball quicker instead of a child in a man’s body holding onto the ball for 10 seconds or until he decides to throw it at a receiver’s feet thus making the O-line become frustrated and question their motivations.

by TAW on May 14, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Now if we don't get what we're seeking

a tantrum might be in order! I’ll act quite spoiled and expect what I want, and stomp my feet and demand it, much like a spoiled child might.

I know I will! I want a starting tackle. I want a starting tackle, I want one. I want one! I WANT ONE!

OH, AND A DT TOO!

"If your only ambition in life, is to be a better person; well, that's just the best ambition you can have..." Wayne "Rabbit" Bartholomew

by brhynno on May 14, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

NT by a mile, IMO

Although OT is clearly needed as well, just one may or may not be enough to turn the corner. I’d go with a RT at this point, so that Barnes could move to his natural LT spot to give Henderson competition.

But the defense stinks, especially the run defense, which allows teams to avoid the strength of the D, the backfield, by not being forced into passing situations. They run when they want, throw when they want, and are then able to keep the D on the field. We were bottom 10 in total points allowed, points per game allowed, yards per game, yards per carry, opponent TOP, and plays of 20+ yards.

McClain ain’t gonna change all that by himself, and Houston as a part-time DE isn’t the answer either. Stuff the run with a true NT, and start to force teams out of their gameplan, into ours.

Failure builds character; success reveals it

by signcut on May 15, 2010 7:25 AM PDT reply actions  

Dammit I Want Better Fan Support -n- You Negative "Pie-Hole"s To Go Back -n- Retract You Al Bashin Crap

I fully remember the total disrespectful assault upon the “OldMan” who gave us everything we have in our “Raider Nation” world and I for one did not condone it nor do I forgive it until you bastards go back and own it and correct it…Until than you will continue to be the “Mutinous Dogs” that you made yourselves to be and no damn better than those damn "Mediot"s n “Raider Haters”…

by PantyRaider on May 16, 2010 1:37 AM PDT reply actions  

Al got what he deserved

Nothing wrong with wanting sound decisions versus bat ass crazy. As you can see with one mentally sane off-season he is back in the heart’s and good graces of the Nation.

by itswhateva on May 18, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Indeed

Players come and go. So do coaches. Why not owners? The Raiders live on.

by rightnasty on May 19, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Something else, Dammit

A head coach who’s a proven winner, who has real experience, and rather than kowtowing to Al, will kick his @$$ if necessary to get him see reason/ drag him out of the 70s.

by rightnasty on May 17, 2010 1:38 AM PDT reply actions  

I am more than willing to give Cable a chance this year.

Keeping the team together last year during his issues and Russell’s was no small feat. He showed that he does have some pull with Al, I think, with the draft and with the increase in blitzing last year.

The team definitely has to make some strides this year, especially with their consistency, but I think he earned this opportunity.

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 17, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I mean

I can accept the fact that some of the Nation have chosen to give Cable the benefit of the doubt, but certainly people have to wish for, at least a little bit, a guy to come in here, take charge and put us definitively on the right path, even if the owner doesn’t approve of his methods.

Al’s situation kind of reminds of Bill Gates when he was still at Microsoft. One of his senior executive said, that Bill would scream and rant like a maniac at people he didn’t agree with, but that if you stood your ground and screamed right back at him for long enough, he would admit when he was wrong. It says something about big egos, doesn’t it? Maybe that sometimes the ego hasn’t to be gotten out of the way before real progress can be made. I never though Kiffin belonged in the NFL, like Cable not having enough experience to be ready for this level. But I couldn’t help admire the way he got in the old man’s face. Davis, Snyder, a whole string of owners around the league need to get their egos out of the way.

by rightnasty on May 17, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kiffin is too stupid and shamelessly self-orientated to do anything

but orchestrate his exit. I think there are definite signs of Cable’s pull with in the orginization.

Like I said though the team needs to make great strides this year for Cable to warrant another year on the job.

I think when people are being funny, they are actually being serious and when people are being serious, it's actually really funny.

by Rich Langford on May 17, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

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