Carson Palmer Trade: Putting King's Ransom Paid by Raiders in Perspective
The Raiders trade for Carson Palmer saw them fork over a price not often seen in the NFL. The Bengals would have done well to get a second-round pick had they traded him this offseason. Teams rarely trade a first-round draft pick for a player—let alone a first and a second or possibly two firsts.
However, I am not going to say they paid over market value. Because this is a unique market. Given the circumstances, this trade can be measured on the normal scale. In the NFL offseason, there are more options available. If a price is too high for one player, you move on to the next. That means the wins that a targeted player offers to team is not that great. There was no next in this scenario.
Those conditions made Carson Palmer uniquely and insanely valuable to the Raiders. It was either land Palmer or roll with Kyle Boller. In my eyes, that is the difference between hoping to crawl into the playoffs, or expecting to make the playoffs and contend.
The Raiders did not just trade their picks for Carson Palmer, they traded it for an entire 2011 season. Two rookies that will be signed to a four year deal and hopefully pan out doesn't seem like that steep of price for a potentially fantastic ride.
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NOTHING ABOUT THIS DEAL, BOTHERS ME!!! HUE IS THE MAN, I HAVE NO REASON TO DOUBT HIM!! BEST COACH WE'VE HAD SINCE CHUCKY!!
He is turning this team into bonafide contenders for years to come…..
BEING 8-8 IS OK "IF THAT'S THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN" - COACH AL DAVIS
by The MoonMan 804 on Oct 19, 2011 7:09 AM PDT reply actions
Something to note
I don’t think its wise to let Hue start making moves like this so early in his career. Normally coach/GM is something that is earned over a long time. I like that Hue is in “win now” mode, but so is every coach in the league. The responsibility of a GM is to make sure you balance your desire to win now without sacrificing the future.
If this doesn’t work out, Hue can move on and be an offensive coordinator somewhere else, while we’re stuck without a draft for the next two years.
Having said all that, I liked Palmer in Cincy and I’m glad he is a Raider. We need to make serious progress after this season towards signing a GM who can keep the team’s long term goals in mind.
Hue has great minds around him that he can lean on for advice.
Mark, Amy, Madden, Rod Woodson, you name it!
Why would this suddenly be the end of Hue? How many 1st round picks we drafted that are here now contributing?
Are we better in the mid to late rounds finding talent that impacts our team or in the 1st 2 rounds?
This is for my STAT lover’s out there, who is eager to push the best Coach we’ve had in a decade out the door in 2 yrs. because he saved us from drafting what history tells us would have been a “non-factors” on our team anyway’s. (DMAC & DHB not included)
"THE TIME TO WIN IS NOW" - Coach Hue Jackson
So, Raider Nation, it is time to get on board the Hue Train or get the Hell off for good. This is the way it is going to be around here. If a 7th and 4th-5th Rounder get you Aaron Curry instead of a couple of crapshoot draft picks and if dealing away a couple of first rounders gets the team an opportunity to fully implement Hue's game plan, then you should be happy, because this team is standing behind their motto, "Just Win Baby" and it is the furthest thing from "Suck for Luck". Imagine if you were a fan of a team that actually buys into that!?!
Cheers,
- Saint
by The MoonMan 804 on Oct 19, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I understand that
but having a coach making GM decisions is a conflict of interest. The coach’s job is to win right now, as in this season, at all costs. He is judged on whether he can produce with the players he has. If he has the green light to make player decisions, he can mortgage the future for this year.
The GM’s job is to tell the coach that he can’t have every player he wants. His job is about long term success and the stability of the franchise. This is why you see coach turnover higher than GM turnover. The coach is supposed to have input, and if he has proved over a long period of time that he is good at providing input, then he can do both.
I don’t care whether we’re better in the mid rounds of the draft – that isn’t relevant. Trading a 1st and 1st/2nd round pick in the draft is mortgaging the future. If Carson doesn’t perform this year and he’s here for a few medicore years, it comes back to Hue. This is the type of move you ride to the top, or crashes and burns and you’re out of a job. I’m saying it is tough knowing that we could lose a good coach because he made a bad GM decision.
PS- Mark (from my understanding) does not want to be/is not involved in football decisions like Al was, Rod Woodson has no experience making these decisions, and we’re not exactly sure what Madden’s role is. Trask has been involved in front office decisions, but its impossible to know what type of input she had during the Al era.
Totally agree
And while I think Hue is genuinely doing what he thinks is in the best interests of the Raiders i think he is the kind or person who is able to manipulate non football people like Mark and Amy, not in a vindictive way but just because of his infectious enthusiasm. Also Hue is looking at the short term of the franchise and I Think we need a football person in the building ASAP who has the long term future at heart, again not saying that This trade may not be in long term interests but as Terps has said there is a conflict of interests.
I hope John Madden was consulted by Mark and Amy on this trade, I would also love to hear his perspective.
"We’re going to be a tough, rugged football team that walks with a swagger and plays the way the Raiders used to play." Hue Jackson
RIP Mr Davis 1929 - 2011
It's been clarified already that all these people are advisors.....+ people close to the organization that the inner circle trust...
and Hue even said in his press interview that Mark was as excited as he was about the chance to get Carson Palmer.
"THE TIME TO WIN IS NOW" - Coach Hue Jackson
So, Raider Nation, it is time to get on board the Hue Train or get the Hell off for good. This is the way it is going to be around here. If a 7th and 4th-5th Rounder get you Aaron Curry instead of a couple of crapshoot draft picks and if dealing away a couple of first rounders gets the team an opportunity to fully implement Hue's game plan, then you should be happy, because this team is standing behind their motto, "Just Win Baby" and it is the furthest thing from "Suck for Luck". Imagine if you were a fan of a team that actually buys into that!?!
Cheers,
- Saint
by The MoonMan 804 on Oct 19, 2011 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Of course he said that he was overly defensive about the 'playing GM' thing the whole press conference.
"We’re going to be a tough, rugged football team that walks with a swagger and plays the way the Raiders used to play." Hue Jackson
RIP Mr Davis 1929 - 2011
Totally 100% agree Terps ...
Great points/analysis …
by Brett J Valjalo on Oct 19, 2011 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I said it before Carson is ring thirsty
He’s been to the playoffs, He’s been to the probowl, and now he’s with a team that can back him up. The coaches and players love it so shouldn’t us fans love it as well?
by raiderfan21 on Oct 19, 2011 7:20 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
BEING 8-8 IS OK "IF THAT'S THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN" - COACH AL DAVIS
by The MoonMan 804 on Oct 19, 2011 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Bengals fan freeperjim posted this in the previous thread
The real facts about Carson’s last 3 years with Bungles…
As a long time Bengals fan but a MUCH bigger Carson fan, here is some important facts that is rarely posted….
1. Beginning with 2005 Pitts playoff game where Carson was injured on 1st play, the diva/cancer known as chad johnson was exposed when he fought a coach at halftime because he was not targeted enough.
2. Marvin Lewis (and Mikey-boy Brown) encouraged t&he diva personna despite the locker room disruption and selfish attitude.
3.This selfish diva attitude grew out of control into a full cancer on the TEAM
4. Carson was forced to accept the Head Coach’s special rules for chad including missing meetings
5. Dave Lapham, radio analyst has begun reporting that chad has a limited intelligence and limited grasp on offense.
6. chad was unable to understand the precise routes & spots that Carson was throwing to and that led to incfreasing interceptions
7. chad increasingly ran his own routes (as did TO in 2010) – not the route called for in the huddle
8. chad’s lack of grasping the Patriots playbook has also exposed him and his "creative" route running in Cincy
9.That Carson was able to make chad a ‘star" was someing that even Brady was not abke to do in NE
10. Check out Carson’s last 3-4 games in 2010 WITHOUT chad and TO – VERY strong numbers with receivers who ran precise routes and was where the ball was thrown.
Bottom line, expect BIG things from Carson once he gets rid of the rust and finds the timing with his receivers.
Go RAIDERS….and Carson!
"Weakness on both sides is, as we know, the motto of all quarrels." -Voltaire
Bengals fan palewook added this
here’s a look from the pats at Ocho’s route issues
breaking down an int ocho caused for brady
And I’m adding this link
"Weakness on both sides is, as we know, the motto of all quarrels." -Voltaire
WHO CARES ABOUT FIRST ROUNDERS!!
Only good one in the last 10 years is RUN DMC.. Maybe DHB is he continues to prove himself… We are making a super bowl run now and over the next 2 years.. We needed this trade WAAAAYYYYYYY more than bust first round draft picks.. We have a PRO BOWL QB that loves to go vertical..
WAY TO GO HUE JACKSON AND THE SILVER AND BLACK.. We just went from Playoff contenders to SUPER BOWL CONTENDERS!!
+1
BEING 8-8 IS OK "IF THAT'S THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN" - COACH AL DAVIS
by The MoonMan 804 on Oct 19, 2011 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions
im sorry, but where is the logic in this?
im a life long raider fan as next guy but if you dont understand the importance of having draft picks for this team that is built on high draft picks… the kool-aid must be really good.
did we get a good player? yes. did we over pay? yes. do we know exactly what we lost? no. do we know if Carson will take us to the superbowl? no.
these are all variables the must be considered. best case scenario, we make it to the playoffs. worst case scenario, Carson gets injured and we lose our picks for nothing.
one more point… i dont know how severe the situation was in Cinci, but he virtually quit on them… who does that? in any circumstances what kind of man quits? on anything? its a game you get to paid to play.
like i said i dont know the severity of his situation in Cinci, but I highly doubt that it was life or death.
but you have to consider, what happens if things arent going his way after year 3? what kind of man quits?
"There comes a point an a mans life, he has to step up… I dont care what kind of man you are!!! there come’s a point where he has to fight!!! He has to has that in ’em! He gotta have that in ’em… Lets go, LETS GO!!! FIGHT on 3… 1-2-3- FIGHT!!!! -Richard Seymour
How bad must a situation be
For a man to walk away from tens of millions of dollars?
by lchristmas on Oct 19, 2011 8:27 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
enough to know that he didnt need the money
damn overpaid athletes
"There comes a point an a mans life, he has to step up… I dont care what kind of man you are!!! there come’s a point where he has to fight!!! He has to has that in ’em! He gotta have that in ’em… Lets go, LETS GO!!! FIGHT on 3… 1-2-3- FIGHT!!!! -Richard Seymour
Long Term
The Raiders are committed at the Quarterback position, we now know who the Raider Quarterback will be up until 2014. It is safe to assume that JC was not in the Raiders long term plans.
The investment will pay off, the end product is this, TP gets to study under CP just like AaronR did under BretF. Im not saying that the Raiders are sold on TP as the Quarterback of the future, but TP has a greater opportunity to succeed just because CP is in the house……
Two other things to consider
1) The Browns essentially had to be convinced to help a team that could push them out of the playoff picture, which would not only tick off their fans, but cost the team quite a bit of money. If that were not the case, I think a 1st rounder would have easily done the deal.
2) If Carson makes us a playoff team, it is going to be much easier to pick up free agents next year. We have had to pay for FAs in the past because they viewed Oakland as a black hole (and not in a good way.) If that turns around, and we are viewed as a quality team with a solid coaching staff, we won’t need to rely on the draft near as much. How nice would it be to have players wanting to come to Oakland like the good old days?
If behind the move and can’t wait to see where we go from here.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
+1 I like your thinking it makes sense
by 209raider on Oct 19, 2011 8:25 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I think that perception was exaggerated in the first place and was now completely gone
Thanks to big rich and hue j. The effect of carson depends on what happens for the rest of the year.
by lchristmas on Oct 19, 2011 8:34 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
To some extent
But until your team is a legitimate playoff contender, it’s still tough to get big name free agents. If Palmer takes us to the playoffs and beyond, we can realistically say we no longer have to overpay for free agents. That is a big reason why winning teams often continue to win.
It comes down to reality
And it's fine with me 'cause I've let it slide
by SavageBeast on Oct 20, 2011 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
The Players
i just having a feeling the Players feel they have something to play for!
Richard Seymour on Palmer: “I’m excited to have a leader on that side of the ball…”
oh tell us what you really think about JasonC!
Assuming that Big Dick was dissing JC in that quote is bullshit ...
It all depends on how he said what he said, i.e. his tone is critical to understanding the meaning … have you heard a recording of this quote? It’s not like he said ‘to FINALLY have a leader’ … so just by reading the words you can’t know his intended message here.
Not only that, even if it WAS meant as a diss to someone, it’s a lot more likely to have been directed at Boller, who was the current starting QB at the time the quote was delivered …
by Brett J Valjalo on Oct 19, 2011 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
The Future is Now
While some teams stock themselves with overpriced Vets in trying to make the Superbowl (Redskins several years ago), the Raiders have a very young team mixed with vets who have been in the playoffs or Superbowls.
My concern going deep into the playoffs was with QB play. Can JC take us all the way? I guess that has been answered.
Being that Davis saw Campbell as a late bloomer, I wonder if this trade would have been made if Al was still with us? JC is essentially gone after this year unless he wants to be a backup for a reduced price.
Everyone has been criticizing Al for YEARS
for being wowed by the big arm… Overpaying for veterans… Blowing draft picks…
And now its “Al wouldn’t have done this?” (not saying this is what you are saying in particular) I dont get it.
I think its quite likely that this is EXACTLY what Al would have done and EXACTLY the guy he’d have wanted… And Hue knew it.
The draft picks are gone, people. Time to emasculate the Chiefs.
by lchristmas on Oct 19, 2011 8:32 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
your right.
its time to move on… im trying brother… but damn, i just cant get over the compensation… dont get me wrong im excited about aquiring carson but just having a hard time with the picks… but yeah your right
its time to accept it and move on
"There comes a point an a mans life, he has to step up… I dont care what kind of man you are!!! there come’s a point where he has to fight!!! He has to has that in ’em! He gotta have that in ’em… Lets go, LETS GO!!! FIGHT on 3… 1-2-3- FIGHT!!!! -Richard Seymour
YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
This is the best thing ever right??? I mean, JC was a so-so QB at best, CP is a bona fide big league star!!!!!!! I would have given them anything to get CP here. He was our only option that was not a serious downgrade from JC. GO RAIDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look at you: member of the honor roll, assistant to the assistant manager of the movie theater. I'm tellin' ya, Rat, if this girl can't smell your qualifications, then who needs her, right? Mike Damone (Fast Times at Ridgemont High)
repost: wanted your guys opinion...
did we get a good player? yes. did we over pay? yes. do we know exactly what we lost? no. do we know if Carson will take us to the superbowl? no.
these are all variables the must be considered. best case scenario, we make it to the playoffs. worst case scenario, Carson gets injured and we lose our picks for nothing.
one more point… i dont know how severe the situation was in Cinci, but he virtually quit on them… who does that? in any circumstances what kind of man quits? on anything? its a game you get to paid to play.
like i said i dont know the severity of his situation in Cinci, but I highly doubt that it was life or death.
but you have to consider, what happens if things arent going his way after year 3? what kind of man quits?
"There comes a point an a mans life, he has to step up… I dont care what kind of man you are!!! there come’s a point where he has to fight!!! He has to has that in ’em! He gotta have that in ’em… Lets go, LETS GO!!! FIGHT on 3… 1-2-3- FIGHT!!!! -Richard Seymour
Why does Carson get a free pass for quitting on team?
While Ricky Williams becomes the most hated player for doing the exact same thing? Although, he actually tried to improve himself?
"ask again later"
meaning, palmer went to one of the worst run franchises in the nfl. mike brown has spent 21 years tearing down everything paul brown built. palmer spent his whole career in cincy. making due with cost cutter players that brown plucked from the nfl reject bin to save a few bucks. does that merit giving palmer a pass for walking out on the bengals? depends who you are a fan of. will palmer hear it from the fans in cincy next season when the raiders come to cincy? hell yes. is palmer hated in oakland for doing it? hell no.
" Mike Brown is the owner that Cincy doesn't deserve, not the one it needs..."
do you think if the bengals had a losing record, the trade goes down? or if dalton wasnt performing?
does carson get traded… i just heard on NFL network that Mike Brown was willing to accept a 2nd rounder for Carson if he lasted till the 2012 draft
"There comes a point an a mans life, he has to step up… I dont care what kind of man you are!!! there come’s a point where he has to fight!!! He has to has that in ’em! He gotta have that in ’em… Lets go, LETS GO!!! FIGHT on 3… 1-2-3- FIGHT!!!! -Richard Seymour
Judging by the sample I've seen here and on their blog
Plenty of Bengals fans side with Carson. its pretty well known that mike brown is the worst owner in sports, and no one truly knows what went on there. Now a star player has finally had enough of it (marv lewis lost control of the locker room 5 years ago, ocho doing his jackass routine, signing free agents straight from jail, etc) & puts his money where his mouth is by walking away and he’s the villian? I dont buy it.
I have no criticism of ricky williams at all.
by lchristmas on Oct 19, 2011 8:44 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
eshock . He gets a free pass bcos
Having OCHO and TO demanding the ball all the time can drive man insane
We didnt over pay, we just drafted early
Our 2012 draft: 7.LB Aaron Curry, 4. OT Joseph Barksdale, RB Taiwan Jones, 3. QB Jason Cambell, QB Pyor, 2. DE Richard Seymore and our #1 pick next year is…. QB Carson Palmer. Overall id say thats a great draft so far. You have 4 first round picks in Palmer, Curry, Seymore, Pryor and 5 if you count Jason Cambell. A decent OT and a talented RB. We will still have 3 picks coming to us in the 3rd-6th rounds. I also dont see any reachable talent in next years draft that would help the team. QB Luck for two 1st rounders? Wont get him. QB Landry Jones for two !st rounders? Not worth it and doesnt help this year. Overall …. Great deal.
Gogomaplata off subject do you train in mma? Just curious cus ur screen name
by 209raider on Oct 19, 2011 9:32 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
yup,... you?
"There comes a point an a mans life, he has to step up… I dont care what kind of man you are!!! there come’s a point where he has to fight!!! He has to has that in ’em! He gotta have that in ’em… Lets go, LETS GO!!! FIGHT on 3… 1-2-3- FIGHT!!!! -Richard Seymour
by gogomaplata on Oct 20, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
i guess thats a good way to look at it
sorta like how some folks like to think all they need to do is repent for their sins… and then they get how many virgins in heaven…
aye whatever gets people thru the day is what i say.
"There comes a point an a mans life, he has to step up… I dont care what kind of man you are!!! there come’s a point where he has to fight!!! He has to has that in ’em! He gotta have that in ’em… Lets go, LETS GO!!! FIGHT on 3… 1-2-3- FIGHT!!!! -Richard Seymour
Carson is starting this week!
BEING 8-8 IS OK "IF THAT'S THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN" - COACH AL DAVIS
by The MoonMan 804 on Oct 19, 2011 8:54 AM PDT reply actions
i heard that... wow
"There comes a point an a mans life, he has to step up… I dont care what kind of man you are!!! there come’s a point where he has to fight!!! He has to has that in ’em! He gotta have that in ’em… Lets go, LETS GO!!! FIGHT on 3… 1-2-3- FIGHT!!!! -Richard Seymour
Carson Palmer might be Jim Plunkett or the next Jeff George
"There comes a point an a mans life, he has to step up… I dont care what kind of man you are!!! there come’s a point where he has to fight!!! He has to has that in ’em! He gotta have that in ’em… Lets go, LETS GO!!! FIGHT on 3… 1-2-3- FIGHT!!!! -Richard Seymour

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