The Raiders feast-famine dynamic: Broncos win, Raiders will too
by Sons-of-Blanda on Nov 16, 2011 10:17 PM PST
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Warren Sapp might have said something correct given enough time and given enough statements (even a broken Cuckoo clock is correct at the certain point in time). Sapp says, "the Raiders cannot stand success." The statement, elaborated, suggests that the Raiders tend toward complacency, celebrate wins excessively and react to loses too gracefully, don't play the entire 60-minutes, give up leads by carelessness and not finishing, consider halftime leads as sufficient to call it a day, etc.
Well, the man may have an argument using Week 9 as an example. With the division up for grabs, Oakland heads for the lockeroom at halftime leading Denver 17 - 7 just as the final score of Miami's upset victory over KC (31 - 3) is announced at "The O"; cheers grow louder as that good news is followed by the halftime score of G.B. leading San Diego 28 - 17. Oakland begins the 3rd Quarter sluggish and dull and Denver takes over the game - scoring on its first drive and then scoring again and again and again and again (5 times) while Oakland manages only one score the entire 2nd half and loses what seems a sure victory.
The feast-famine dynamic of the Raiders is a fact but Sapp's assertion of the cause of that dynamic is not a fact that is absolutely provable.
All of us have our own idea of why the feast-famine dynamic has settled in the East-Bay. My own theory (which is no more or less a fact than Sapp's) is that the "Just Win, Baby" mentality that was glorified on a daily basis throughout virtually the entire history of the Raiders is the root cause of our dysfunction. That philosophy glorifies "just getting by" and reminds me of a friend who had straight A's through school but rarely, and certainly not intentionally, ever had a grade over 91% (just enough to get the A was what Ed was most proud of ... no wasted effort). To me the just win philosophy cannot be maintained alongside the Raider standard, "Commitment to Excellence" ... unless one is to adopt Ed's definition of excellence which I believe is a subjective, even a perverse, usage of the word "excellence."
At any rate, my point is this: regardless of the cause of the Raiders dysfunctional (feast-famine) dynamic, it does seem they do better when confronted by challenge. I trust them to win games against stronger opponents while being anxious when they face weaker ones AND I believe the Raiders need some challenge in their own division to make them play better. Now, K.C. is basically out of it and given San Diego's schedule, and what they've looked like thus far, the Chargers are also though. That leaves only the upstart and ascending Broncos now 4-5 to challenge us for the division and they have the lighter schedule.
If you've dismissed what's been written here thus far, ask yourself this, "If Denver wins Thursday and goes to 5 - 5, will that have any affect on the way the Raiders' (5 - 4) play Sunday?"
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Brilliant post. Even if it did center around a comment by Sappaliscious
I think this virus of complacency can also be seen in the defensive meltdowns in the second halves of games.
It will be interesting to see what kind of effect Carson Palmer has on this. The energy, intensity and maybe most importantly pace may not help just the offense but the defense as well.
Slithering along the edge of a straight razor.
Thank you Rich. It's a fact that our 3rd Quarter play generally declines after halftime...
Week 1 – Denver scores10 pts to our 0 in the 3rd Qtr..
Week 2 – Buffalo scores 14 unanswered points in the 3rd Quarter.
- Week 3 – we score 7 pts in the 3rd and hold NYJs to 0.
Week 4 – NE outscores us 7 – 3 in the 3rd Qtr
Week 5 – we exchange field goals with Houston in the 3rd. - Week 6 – we score 10 to Cleveland’s 0 in 3rd.
Week 7 – Raiders do not score in 3rd (or 1st, 2nd & 4th Qtr).
Week 8 – Bye (and we know what follows bye-weeks’ and halftimes….)
Week 9 – Denver scores 17 pts in 3rd … Raiders score 7.
Week 10 – San Diego scores 14 pts to Oakland’s 7 in 3rd Qtr.
- anomaly
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Nov 17, 2011 6:00 AM PST up reply actions
I am hopefull, but not convinced, that Palmer can help fix this crap.
Slithering along the edge of a straight razor.
by Rich Langford on Nov 17, 2011 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
My take.
Denver winning shouldn’t affect how the Raiders play, but I have a feeling it might. I’m hoping they’ll prove me wrong.
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Nov 16, 2011 10:46 PM PST reply actions
That's pretty much how I feel.
If the Raiders don’t realize that winning the division is entirely in their hands then the next 7 weeks could be long ones for all us fans.
I gotta feeling that Denver is gonna lose
So maybe it won’t matter.
The Jets still consider themselves a good team and they just got worked buy the hated nemesis Patriots on national TV.
They are going to take it out on Teabag and the Broncos tonight.
"Now I know what your thinking, did he fire six shots or only five. Ive forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being that this is the 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, you have to ask your question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk!"
Dirty Harry Callahan
It still matters, the Raider dynamic works both ways - Denver loses, the Raiders will too.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Nov 17, 2011 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
I hope your hypothesis is wrong
because Ive gotta a feeling that the Broncos are gonna get killed.It’s a terrible match up for Denver.
The Jets have a really good rushing defense and Revis can blanket Decker (the only receiver Teabag can complete a pass to) Besides they (Denver) have run that College option offense for two weeks now and everyone knows it’s coming. They come out with that shit again this week and they’re going to get trucked.
If we are some how linked to Denvers fate, we better kick it before Sunday
"Now I know what your thinking, did he fire six shots or only five. Ive forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being that this is the 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, you have to ask your question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk!"
Dirty Harry Callahan
Looking forward to watching tonight. Not at all sure Jets can adequately contain TT
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Nov 17, 2011 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
I'm torn
It would be nice to see other teams get RIPPED by Tebow like we did.
But Broncos need to be stopped and Jets should be prepared at this point to PUNISH tebow when he runs for it.
J E T S jetssj ughhhhhhhhhh
Pride & Poise Raider Blog:
http://theoaklandraiders.wordpress.com/
by David Rockwood on Nov 17, 2011 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
Now I hope your hypothesis is correct
I had no idea the Sanchez was as bad or worse than Teabag.
The only way Denver wins any game is if you give it to them, and Sanchez handed it right to them with that pick 6 that even Lito Sheppard could have caught!.
The Donkos just keep hanging around until they can get their one drive of the game for a score and win.
Anyway, as long as we can take care of business we’ll be Ok.
Once again we’ve been presented with an opportunity to distance our selves from the pack, (or more correctly we’ve been presented with an opportunity to maintain the distance we have now) we need to keep our advantage in the division with a win this week or we’ll just be the same team that can’t distinguish it self from the rest of the division.
Someone has to take control of this division, so it might as well be us!
The Time is Now!!!
Go Raiders!!!
"Now I know what your thinking, did he fire six shots or only five. Ive forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being that this is the 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, you have to ask your question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk!"
Dirty Harry Callahan
Denver won't affect how they'll play. Their inconsistencies has nothing to do with the outcome of other teams.
There hasn’t been a stable coaching staff, sysyem, and lineup in this team since the Gannon days. Bottom line, I think it stems from either poor coaching and leadership, and or not enough time for a group of young players to learn this system and gel with one another. Raiders have always been shuffling everything around. They need to find their identity. Oh, and Warren Sapp is an idiot. He called all West coast teams soft, and he clearly has something against the S&B.
If you came across a Lion in the wilderness would you want that beast to have just feasted on a kill?
I’m also thinking of the starving Vikings now as well as the Raiders having just glutted themselves on Charger flesh.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Nov 17, 2011 6:50 AM PST up reply actions
That's the feast-famine dynamic which is suitable for beasts but not suitable for men, certainly not noble men.
Green Bay is truly the elite team of this league. Do the Packers relax at all after victory or ease off with a comfortable lead? Rhetorical question. The reason they don’t is because they are not seeking to “Just win” but rather to be excellent at all times
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Nov 17, 2011 6:57 AM PST up reply actions
The starving Vikings, just like a starving Lion
in the wilderness need a kill, but are they the lion that’s just been unlucky in his attempts at a kill or are they the lion that is weak and or lame and unable to kill only the most weakened prey?
To my mind the Vikings are the latter, they are a weakened lion with one strong Adrian Peterson paw. The question is are we going to act like another lion and make them our prey or are we weakened so much by our own injuries that we become their prey?
The Raiders need to avoid (control) that Adrian Peterson paw and make these weakened Vikings their prey!
"Now I know what your thinking, did he fire six shots or only five. Ive forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being that this is the 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, you have to ask your question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk!"
Dirty Harry Callahan
We need to tear the Viking paw away from whatever it's holding. (and trample some zebras and anything else in our way)
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Nov 17, 2011 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
Oh yeah,
we have to sell out to stop Peterson and hope that Ponder can’t take advantage of the heavy front we present. If he can I still have faith that Carson and the offense can win any shoot out that Minnesotas offense minus AP can put up.
"Now I know what your thinking, did he fire six shots or only five. Ive forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being that this is the 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, you have to ask your question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk!"
Dirty Harry Callahan
Complacency is human nature
It takes a rare individual to not let up if he/she doesn’t have to. Same for teams, if winning the division gets you in, most teams strive for that. It is usually the first goal. Why doesn’t a team come out and say, “superbowl or nothing matters?” If the Broncos win, it threatens the Raiders in terms of record. They will play harder as a result. If they lose, all of the sudden the Raiders have a cushion and they don’t need a victory. Obviously, I hope the Raiders don’t care about any of that. I hope they have made grand strides and truly only see victory in all they do. At this point, if they win out, they win the division and make the playoffs. Screw what other teams do. Again though, takes a rare team to overcome complacency. Perhaps the new infusion of players and Hue will be the difference. Perhaps not. We will see.
by lakers007raiders on Nov 16, 2011 11:43 PM PST reply actions
Hopefully the two disastrous losses to KC and Denver can be explained away
by the fact that the Raiders had to force a retired quarterback prematurely into action. And the Broncos surprised us defensively by quickly building a new spread option offense around Tebow rather than have him run a typical pro style offense – I am suggesting (hoping) that these failures are not a trait of this edition of the Raiders but anomalies caused by two events – Campbell’s injury and Denver’s fast change in offensive style (and our Defense’s lack of preparation for that change)..
by Oceanside Raider on Nov 17, 2011 12:58 AM PST reply actions
I hate making excuses but...
The way we use our mlb is like a qb…blackstock had everyone in the wrong position ALL game…you have to take injuries into consideration as well, but hey next man up! The record books don’t have asterisks by them saying their best player was out…it just states whether the team won or lost, no reason is given
by aToomb Raider on Nov 17, 2011 4:19 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I believe Hue and Carson has them thinking in the correct mode.
Hue has given them direction, and that direction is the AFC WEST CHAMPIONS. He has been preaching it all year and it hasn’t been about what other teams are doing. It has been about fixing our own problems and us doing what we have to do to get better. I see it happening even with all the issues that have been coming up. This is a team that overcomes adversary. They have done it all season from the lockout, to loosing free agents, injuries, AL passing. There has been alot to say the least but they keep showing so much promise under Hue. Carson from each snaps he takes he looks more and more the team leader. The team, as a whole, looks so much more confident with him under center. They believe in him and you can see it. We have a very bright future and we know its about the RAIDERS and no other.
The Raiders have lived ,or died by the QB play
When Jason Cambell was rolling(in the zone) our offense seemed unstoppable at times. When he was lost(SF game) the offense couldn’t buy a first down. The team already know’s this, and so does the coach. That is why we traded 2 pics for Carson Palmer. He is intelligent, and a good leader for this young team. No more 8-9 in the box because he will make you pay.
So in short, this team is in charge of it’s own destiny.
I will never recover from Al Davis saying, "I should never have fired Art Shell"
I don't see the Broncos winning thursday night.
The Jets have plenty of tape on Tebow now to stop him dead in his tracks. Take way McGahee and Moreno from this game because of injury and I don’t see the Broncos winning this game against a Rex Ryan defense. Broncos are starting RB Lance Ball, he won’t get it done. Tebow will be forced to throw the ball against Revis and Cromartie. With that said game over!!!! Jets win!!! The secrets out of the bag on Tebow and their high school formations. Even if the Broncos line up for pass? The Jets will still play run and overload the box leaving Revis and Crow to defened the pass. I see this game being a low scoring affair because the Broncos defense is starting to play better. 14- 6 Jets!!!
Even if the Raiders do lose to the Vikings, their still in good shape to win the west. That’s just the way I look at it.
+1....And Who Did That Tebownco Beat???
Miami who sleep walked in the 2nd half giving us a 2 score lead and losing in “OT”….
A Raider team that was in flux with a “QB” learning a new system and a “D” desecrated by injury…No “D-Mac”….
“KC” on the way down down down!!!
Now they are plagued by the injuries and facing a formidable challenge that they won’t prevail against…Tebow will get punked!!!
+1....And Who Did That Tebownco Beat???
Miami who sleep walked in the 2nd half giving us a 2 score lead and losing in “OT”….
A Raider team that was in flux with a “QB” learning a new system and a “D” desecrated by injury…No “D-Mac”….
“KC” on the way down down down!!!
Now they are plagued by the injuries and facing a formidable challenge that they won’t prevail against…Tebow will get punked!!!
Flip a Coin
The poll is just like the Raiders season, flip a coin. If you flip a coin 9 times you might get 5 heads and 4 tails. Lesseee, the Raiders record is 5 Wins and 4 Losses. Flip a coin. They need to start being consistent, finish games, and beat who they should beat.
and play all 60 minutes!
Girlfriend: So the guy who catches the ball is the catcher, right?
Me: No. They are called wide-receivers. Catchers play baseball.
Girlfriend: Samething.
Just Win Baby
Also is the reasoning behind a lot of the penalties we have now. Personal fouls seem to be encouraged or at the very least, not discouraged by the Raider organization as long as they win the game.
We also definitely seem to take our foot off the gas with a lead moreso than other teams do. Beating the Browns by 14 late in the fourth never really felt safe with this team. Some is scheme, but I think another part of it is players coasting when they think we have the victory.
1st Off A Percentage Of Those Penalties Are Bogas!!!
2nd Hue has addressed penalties as an issue repeatedly so how could it be viewed as encouraged???
3rd when we’re up the other teams try to get hot turn it up a notch and get more aggressive…That’s the nature of sports…Make the plays and you win…Fail and they come back on you…I don’t see anyone laying down on that field of play…
Aside from lipservice, what has Hue actually done to reduce penalties? I've heard of no punishment, corporal or otherwise
2nd Hue has addressed penalties as an issue repeatedly so how could it be viewed as encouraged???
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Nov 17, 2011 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
Yup
I believe that you should pull a guy out for a few plays when they do a stupid personal foul. I see they do sometimes.
by Mallard Davis on Nov 17, 2011 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
I suppose the new CBA doesn't allow flogging or any of the other gentler forms of discipline
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Nov 17, 2011 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
Wimbley
mentioned that before the Chargers game, Hue summoned all the leaders on the team and got everyone together to talk about the penalties, and put it on them to really come down on their guys and get their S(*& together.
Seems like it may have made a difference….
Pride & Poise Raider Blog:
http://theoaklandraiders.wordpress.com/
by David Rockwood on Nov 17, 2011 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
Wimbley had a great game but...
he wasn’t up against much. Think his guy was a back-up or just off the prac squad. SD’s lines where beat to shit even before the game.
Girlfriend: So the guy who catches the ball is the catcher, right?
Me: No. They are called wide-receivers. Catchers play baseball.
Girlfriend: Samething.
I'm talking about personal fouls
Some of the pass interference/holding penalties are judgment and you could say are “bogus”. Hitting the QB out of bounds, roughing the passer, facemasking, and late hits aren’t really up for interpretation.
Hue hasn’t address the penalty issue at all. You need to penalize players who repeatedly commit these types of penalties.
Bogus or not...
The Raiders know the resf are watching them; be smart. Do the crime, do the time.
Girlfriend: So the guy who catches the ball is the catcher, right?
Me: No. They are called wide-receivers. Catchers play baseball.
Girlfriend: Samething.
If the cops are looking for you, don't drive a car with a busted tail-light!
Girlfriend: So the guy who catches the ball is the catcher, right?
Me: No. They are called wide-receivers. Catchers play baseball.
Girlfriend: Samething.
Jets Will Punish
These Broncos, yeah you beat us, so what, but now you have to keep up with us and i don’t see you guys even being close to beating the Jets today. Rex is a defensive minded coach right? You actually believe this college football playbook will work against a mastermind in defense. Give me a break, this game will only slip if Jets get bored and tired, Broncos will be out of the race if they lose this one.
RAIDER NATION
"There only can be one nation, The Raider Nation"
can't believe we lost that game....
hopefully a lesson learned..
"THE TIME TO WIN IS NOW" - Coach Hue Jackson
Raider Nation, all hand's on deck or get the hell off the ship! That's the way it's gonna be around here from now on! If a 7th & 5th round pick gets you Aaron Curry (a former 4th overall 1st rd. pick) instead of a couple of crap-shoots a year later, then fine and if dealing away a couple of first rounder's gets you a proven franchise quarterback like Carson Palmer and a legitimate shot at the playoffs, then great, you know why? Because our team is standing behind it's motto & legacy, "Just Win Baby!" and "Commitment to Excellence" instead of "Suck for Luck" and "Give Up". Imagine if you were a fan of a team that actually bought into that!?!
Cheers,
- Saint
by The MoonMan 804 on Nov 17, 2011 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
I think our 5-4 record
is proof that the lesson wasn’t quite learned. Up by 10 vs Denver at the half should have been enough. Really, we’ve had a number of games that were a lot closer than they needed to be because of poor second half efforts.
The donkeys!!!!
come on nation forget all this speculating. We got us a game to win i dont give a crap about the donkeys, yes there idiotic offense tore us a new one but that was then. Lets look forward to the dikes. Hell! fuck what we did against the dolts. WE NEED THIS “W” i think more then any, because i believe that with a win we will have our swagger back and that is never a bad thing. we all know that we have yet to play our best game of the season and our team is just getting more and more healthy with each passing second. WE GOT THIS……..OFF WITH THERE HEADS BABY! LETS GO RRRAAAIIIDDDEEERRRSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by EASTBAY RAIDERLOVE on Nov 17, 2011 10:22 AM PST reply actions
More subtle,
when ahead at half time, we don’t anticipate the other team making adjustments and when it happens, we’re surprised that what worked in the first half doesn’t work in the second. Second, yes the players fail to close out. It’s like they think that they can quickly recapture the intensity. We need to put teams away without letting teams off the hook.
Sadly true. It's like the French and the Maginot Line - construct it and light a big cigar.
Well, Tebow was a blitzkrieg around that Line through Belgium and into Paris.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Nov 17, 2011 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
rhetoric & philosophy ... and I doubt anyone is a professor like Spirals
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Nov 17, 2011 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
Sons I Agree
We have played 9 games won 5. We haven’t had one dominant game as team yet. We all know what teams are going to do but for some reason we are never prepared. We all know AP is the Key but we also have to play there TE in the passing game
Stop A.P. and less than 8 penalties.
Then we win.
Girlfriend: So the guy who catches the ball is the catcher, right?
Me: No. They are called wide-receivers. Catchers play baseball.
Girlfriend: Samething.
Rec this post.
I don’t think Thursday’s outcome has as much impact as if the Jets’ Donks game was played on Sunday or early before the Raiders play because it is a full 3 days prior. If it came a few hours or minutes apart then psycology might play a factor in the outcome since it would be fresh on the team’s minds. They still have 3 full days to prepare for the Vikes after tonight.
Trust No One
Studies show stress can kill you, but don't worry about it.
Of the 3 div rivals, Denver has best shot of winning (SD is at Chicago and KC plays NE on MNF) and if they win and go 5-5
we’ll need to win to stay on top. So (imo) the intensity and the stakes go up regardless of whether the Raiders hear about it Thursday night or Sunday morning … but hearing about a win would be better for the Raiders to hear earlier – on Thursday whereas, hearing about a loss would be better for the Raiders to hear Sunday.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Nov 17, 2011 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
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