Best is Yet to Come for Carson Palmer
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 26, 2011 9:22 PM PST
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PrintI was recently having a discussion with Oz and it left me inspired to write this post. We were talking about Carson Palmer. After something Oz said I realized that the position many of us have on the Carson Palmer Trade might actually depend on our perception of his career with the Bengals. I know for me I have always thought highly of Carson throughout his career, but that is not the case for all of us.
I think we can agree for the most part that the compensation we gave the Bengals was exorbitant, but I don't like that his tenure with the team is probably always going to be judged by the amount we paid for him. His start with us has had ups and downs, to put it lightly. I think the judgement on the trade should still be reserved, although some people already think that the trade is horrible and that there is no argument to dissuade them. Despite that thought process and the impossibility of dissuading them probably being true, I am still going to try. I am too much of an optimistic not to at least try!
Jump over for more....
Anybody that has read previous posts from me knows that I am a Homer and often wear rose colored glasses so anything I say should be taken with a grain of salt. Here are his career stats:
| Carson Palmer Career Stats 2003-Present |
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| Passing | |||||||||||||||||||
| Year | Team | G | Att | Comp | Pct | Att/G | Yds | Avg | Yds/G | TD | TD% | Int | Int% | Lng | 20+ | 40+ | Sck | SckY | Rate |
| 2011 | Oakland Raiders | 9 | 285 | 171 | 60.0 | 31.7 | 2,336 | 8.2 | 259.6 | 11 | 3.9 | 15 | 5.3 | 61T | 37 | 10 | 17 | 119 | 77.2 |
| 2010 | Cincinnati Bengals | 16 | 586 | 362 | 61.8 | 36.6 | 3,970 | 6.8 | 248.1 | 26 | 4.4 | 20 | 3.4 | 78T | 45 | 9 | 26 | 201 | 82.4 |
| 2009 | Cincinnati Bengals | 16 | 466 | 282 | 60.5 | 29.1 | 3,094 | 6.6 | 193.4 | 21 | 4.5 | 13 | 2.8 | 73 | 36 | 5 | 26 | 213 | 83.6 |
| 2008 | Cincinnati Bengals | 4 | 129 | 75 | 58.1 | 32.2 | 731 | 5.7 | 182.8 | 3 | 2.3 | 4 | 3.1 | 36 | 7 | 0 | 11 | 67 | 69.0 |
| 2007 | Cincinnati Bengals | 16 | 575 | 373 | 64.9 | 35.9 | 4,131 | 7.2 | 258.2 | 26 | 4.5 | 20 | 3.5 | 70T | 51 | 8 | 17 | 119 | 86.7 |
| 2006 | Cincinnati Bengals | 16 | 520 | 324 | 62.3 | 32.5 | 4,035 | 7.8 | 252.2 | 28 | 5.4 | 13 | 2.5 | 74T | 52 | 15 | 36 | 233 | 93.9 |
| 2005 | Cincinnati Bengals | 16 | 509 | 345 | 67.8 | 31.8 | 3,836 | 7.5 | 239.8 | 32 | 6.3 | 12 | 2.4 | 70T | 43 | 9 | 19 | 105 | 101.1 |
| 2004 | Cincinnati Bengals | 13 | 432 | 263 | 60.9 | 33.2 | 2,897 | 6.7 | 222.8 | 18 | 4.2 | 18 | 4.2 | 76T | 34 | 8 | 25 | 178 | 77.3 |
| 2003 | Cincinnati Bengals | 0 | -- | -- | -- | 0.0 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | 0.0 |
| TOTAL | 106 | 3,502 | 2,195 | 62.7 | 33.0 | 25,030 | 7.1 | 236.1 | 165 | 4.7 | 115 | 3.3 | 78 | 305 | 64 | 177 | 1,235 | 86.1 | |
Now in 2003 he was a rookie behind Jon Kitna and did not play. In 2004 it was his first year starting and he had 18 TDs and 18 interceptions in 13 games, which is not horrible and not great. He did have a completion percentage over 60 and average 222.8 yards which are very decent stats for a first year starter. He also showed his deep ball accuracy with a 76 yard touchdown.
The year 2005 was undeniably his best year. His completion percentage was 67.8% and his QB rating was 101.1 which is great for a single game, let alone an entire year. He also showed he is capable of making better decisions with 32 TDs to only 12 INTs. He averaged an impressive 239.8 yards per game and played in every game that season. In fact there are only 2 years where he missed any games out of injury in his 9 years of playing. That is actually pretty impressive durability. Unfortunately for Carson 2005 was the year that he had a horrendous knee injury in the first round of the playoffs against Pittsburgh after only 1 pass.
In 2006 he returned from that terrible knee injury and performed a lot better than many people think he did. He was not able to duplicate his 05 numbers but he did come pretty close. The stat that went down the most was his completion percentage dropping down to 62.3 percent. His yardage did go up to 252.2 per game, but his TDs went down to 28 with his INTs going up by 1 to 13. His QB rating was good at 93.9. This year though was the beginning of him becoming disgruntled in Cinci after being unable to return to the playoffs.
For 2007 his interceptions skyrocketed to 20 and I believe it is because he started feeling like he had to do everything himself. He still had 26 touchdowns but it means far less when it is accompanied by 20 INTs. He still had a 64.9 completion percentage which is impressive and had a decent 86.7 QB rating. The Bengals had another disappointing season and finished 7-9. This was his first year starting that he did not finish at least 8-8.
2008 was a hard year for Palmer where he had another devastating injury, this one to his elbow. He only played 4 games and did not play well in those. It was the only year he did not have a touchdown pass of 60 or more yards. He came into this year with bad body language and was beginning to show real signs of being unhappy. He would have a horrible 69 QB rating for that injury shortened season.
He definitely loss some velocity on his throws after the injury. He had the least amount of yards per game averaged in 2009 for his entire career at 193.4. His interceptions were lower at only 13, but so were his TDs at 21. I think his interceptions were lower because he did not trust his arm to attempt some of the more dangerous throws. His QB rating was still 83.6. They finished an impressive 11-5 but lost badly in the playoffs. To me even with the success he seemed to be ready to leave Cincinnati.
The Bengals decided that one prima donna WR wasn't enough and decided to add T.O. for the 2010 season. With Palmer playing despite obviously being unhappy he still put up ok numbers. He once again ended the season with 26 TDs to 20 INTs which were the same as he did in 07. We had Bengal fans come over and adamantly claim that a number of those interceptions were from the receivers not running their correct routes. The Bengals season was horrible all the way through and finished 4-12. Palmer had finally had enough with the Bengals organization and eventually forced his way out of Cinci.
Whew! That was a lot of numbers! Now we are finally at this year. He has had some horrible games for us that have left his numbers looking grizzly. He has more INTs than TDs for the first time in his career outside of his shortened year in 08 at 11TDs and 15 INTs. However, I think that shows that he will only get better for us. His QB rating is a pedestrian 77.2 but that is almost 10 points below his career average. Take away the first Chiefs game and he is at 11 and 11 for his TD/INT ratio as a Raider. Still not good enough but that looks a lot better.
He is averaging 259.6 yards per game with us though which is the best of his career. I think that shows the talent we have at WR more than anything. He is throwing for more yards per game than ever before with his worst completion percentage of any season that he played at least half of. That gets me very excited for our future with him. He has consistently played all around better than he has for us throughout his entire career and yet he is consuming more yardage than ever before. That gives reason to believe that he is more than capable of playing at a higher level than he has as a Raider.
His Career Averages end up being 62.7 completion percentage, 236.13 yards per game, 1.55 TDs per game, 1.08 INTs per game, and a 86.1 QB rating for his career. Compare that to 60% completion percentage, 259.6 yards per game, 1.22 TDs per game, and 1.66 INTs per game with a QB rating of 77.2 and I understand the frustration some feel. Those stats are low but they are not indicative of the player we now have. He now has more weapons than ever before and he is just scratching the surface of what he can do with them. He is beginning to look comfortable and that is before he has had an off season in Hue's offense.
I think his career stats show that he is not nearly so prone to interceptions as he seems. This is his 9th year in the league and he has had less than 14 interceptions in 6 of his 9 seasons. This season's numbers are completely different than any across his career and really show that we haven't seen the real Carson yet. Right now he is trying to do too much and is not playing his game yet. When he calms down he is going to show us that he is special. He is not as far from a good season as it feels. This season is an anomaly for him and when he gets used to being here he is going to show us why we traded for him. We need him to be the 12-13 INTs per season Carson, and there is every reason to believe we will get him in the near future. No team wins Super Bowls because of one player, but Palmer's numbers show with the right team with him he is more than capable of getting us to the promised land in the years to come.
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I think what this proves is that out of 8 years starting n the NFL he has had 3 exceptional seasons which is hardly a great ratio
the other thing that you negate to mention amongst you blaming everybody but Carson for his failings at times is that he has a history of and is known for putting up stats in garbage time when the games are already lost which is another one of Carson’s qualities we have experienced first hand this season.
No doubt Carson has the tools to be a great QB but he has only done it in less than half of his seasons starting in the league and has proven he is never been a consistent winner in the NFL which despite your endless excuses the QB and leader of the team plays a massive role.
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
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by Ozraider on Dec 26, 2011 10:19 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Whatever Oz he has had 3 exceptional seasons +1 season he didnt play at all and 1 season he only played 4 games in out of 9. That is half his fucking career and pretty damn consistent.
2 seasons with 20 ints which really is not even THAT high of a number and half a season with us where he doesnt even know the system completely yet. Thats what you base all this hate on? You really hate him that much that you cant even admit that his stats are good?! What fucking excuses did I make with his stats here? Almost this entire post was strictly stats, practically void of opinion and yet you come up with this condescending bitching response.
I made one excuse that his receivers did not run good routes in his last year. How about that is a fucking reason and a fact, not an excuse. When 70% of his interceptions are to two wide receivers, dont you think maybe there was something wrong with their communication or route running?!
IM blaming everybody except Carson? How about I am saying his stats are not bad like you run around claiming all the time? He has proven he has never been a consistent winner in the NFL? Why, because he had 2 losing seasons in his entire career?
You say he only puts up numbers when he is in garbage time? How about a QB rating of between 87.1 and 102.1 when he has a lead this year. How about a QB Rating of between 95-99.4 when tied or behind by less than 9 points this year. Here is the link with the situational stats if you want to look at it, or am i just making up excuses again?
Yeah your right he sucks totally. He does suck when he is down by more than 8 points with a horrible 43.2 QB rating this year, OH but thats during garbage time so he must be fucking awesome at that time and thats where he gets all of his stats right?! We totally experienced that so far this year didnt we. I didnt spin a damn thing in this article, the truth is just too damn much for your fragile ego.
Besides those stats from this year immediately disproving your bullshit of him being known for putting up his stats during garbage time, THATS what you are going to insult him about? That he NEVER gives up, even when the game is out of reach?
Besides I went through that same link and did the average QB rating during specific point differentials and then averaged them out for the entire year. This is how it goes, again Fact not excuses nor spinning it of any kind:
Ahead-Avg rating 79.2 Ahead by 1-8 points-Avg rating 80.95 Ahead by 9-16-Avg rating 77.875
Behind-Avg rt 82.3875 Behind by 1-8 points-Avg rt 87.475 Behind By 9-16 points-Avg rt 81.85
Tied-Avg rating 86.9
So yeah he plays a little better from behind than with a lead, isnt that what you want from your quarterback?! The Garbage time was his worst out of all the when we are behind QB ratings. He is a fuck of a lot better than you ever give him credit for.
Seriously Oz, AMONGST ME BLAMING EVERYBODY BUT CARSON FOR HIS FAILINGS? Fuck that dude, I didnt make any excuses in this post. I didnt place “Blame” on anybody through this entire post, except mentioning the WRs running wrong routes for the ONE year. That is something in which Bengal fans that watch every Cinci game said happened themselves. They even said it while making fun of us for the trade!
Go ahead and read this post again, point out all the places you claim I blame shit on anybody. I didnt and it wasnt the intention of the post. I simply put his career stats up and you get bent out of shape. His stats prove he is not as bad as you love to tell us constantly about. 2 Bad Seasons and thats all you harp on, and they werent even that bad! As for this year it IS completely different and would be hard for any QB but oh thats an excuse. Forget that he came in halfway through the year, that apparently shouldnt matter.
How is that thought process helping you? Oh because its the reality right? Because you have a crystal ball that you can see the future with?! His stats PROVE that he is not prone to interceptions like you are hell bent on saying. His stats prove that in 9 seasons he still has a well above average QB Rating.
His stats this year for us are nothing like any other year in Cinci, oh but thats just a coincidence right? He is just going to be shitty for us all the time. Even if that happens and you get to do your happy dance because he sucks is that really going to make you feel any better?
Despite my endless excuses? You tired of having your “Reality” questioned or something? My endless excuses after this article? They are the fucking numbers and thats it. I didnt lie, I didnt spin, I posted his fucking stats the way they are straight from NFL.com. Copy and paste dude.
Oh but I am making excuses and blaming everybody but Carson. I am pretty sure him having led a dysfunctional team to an 11-5 record just 2 years ago is pretty damn good leadership. I am pretty sure having the command of the huddle and being able to move players about presnap is pretty damn good leadership. Him never throwing anybody under the bus and taking the blame himself is also pretty damn good leadership.
Him staying on that god awful Bengal team for 8 years without saying barely anything until he couldnt take it anymore is pretty damn good leadership. Half that team was thugs and he still consistently kept them in the playoff hunt or atleast 8-8. He has done nothing for you to question his leadership, you only do so to fit your own idea of “Reality”.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 26, 2011 11:36 PM PST up reply actions
Besides I went through that same link and did the average QB rating during specific point differentials and then averaged them out for the entire year.
This was suppose to say for his entire career. Those are his career QB ratings based off of point differential in the game.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 26, 2011 11:39 PM PST up reply actions
Don't let him work you up
If it wasn’t Palmer it would be someone else. I’m convinced that Oz has turned into Randy Quaid from Major League 2.
About the only thing that will get him on board with Palmer is if he went to a game an heckled him, Palmer would have to turn to him and say “Blow it out your ass!” and then he would be a fan while Palmer walked out onto the field with “Wild Thing” blaring on the PA.
I’ll still bite.
This is for Oz. Name 5 players that Palmer played with that were not named Ocho Cinco, Whosyourmama, or TO. And that request is in no way meant to be disrespectful to your knowledge of the game. Eliminating those receivers I think I can come up with 3 names that I know played with Palmer and even that is pushing it off the top of my head. The point is for the seasons he was in Cincy he was the ONLY reason they were winning games.
"The Raiders are the Bad Guy Professional Wrestlers of the NFL. Everybody hates us, and loves nothing more then to watch us lose. We got the costumes, we got the facepaint, and the attitude. All we are missing is a bunch of rednecks to start chanting USA USA USA at us..." - ME
"Contrary to popular belief, Al Davis is in heaven. Satan did not want Al in his domain, since Al already owns 49% of Hell and has always been known as a "Demon's Owner" " - ME
Follow me on Twitter: @JasonViolation
by TheDudeAbides138 on Dec 27, 2011 12:01 AM PST up reply actions
LOL You might be on to something there! I love those movies.
Obviously from my rant he did work me up but damn it the article was practically exclusively stats.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
For the majority of Carson's career in Cincyi TJ and Chad were two of the top receivers in football
and also had a very talented receiver in Chris Henry (RIP) hardly anything to sneeze at and is a better core than what we have now and in reality of any of our receivers can get to the level that Chad and TJ were at for multiple years I think we all would be ecstatic.
To say he was the ONLY reason they won games in Cincinnati is absolutely insane they had a quality defence good running game and a set of All-pro receivers.
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
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LOL
"THE TIME TO WIN IS NOW" - Coach Hue Jackson
Raider Nation..........we need all hand's on deck or get the hell off the ship! That's the way it's gonna be around here from now on! If trading away a couple of first round draft picks can get you a proven franchise quarterback like Carson Palmer and a legitimate shot at going to the playoffs, then fine...............you know why? Because this team is standing behind it's motto & legacy, "Just Win Baby!" and "Commitment to Excellence" instead of "Suck for Luck" & "Give Up". Imagine if you were a fan of a team that actually bought into that.......
Cheers,
- Saint
http://SportsnSpaceTalk.freeforums.org/
by The MoonMan 804 on Dec 27, 2011 4:23 AM PST up reply actions
Respect for the major league reference
Lets hope Carson snaps out of his ‘Mild Thing’ phase
LOL
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
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lol nice play there
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 11:07 AM PST up reply actions
Exactly
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
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Respect the reputation or it's an altercation.
by Ozraider on Dec 27, 2011 1:59 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Dont worry dude, you owned him
At this point being negative, specially on a specific player (whoever it was) is just being a plain idiot. We gotta support our group of guys, Palmer, I have GREAT expectations from him. At least he is getting love from the people at the O. Hopefully he comes even better next week and in the playoffs if we can make it in.
by RaiderPride20 on Dec 27, 2011 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
I apologise if I am unable to delude myself into seeing everything as sunshine and lollipops
What I have seen from Carson has been wildly inconsistent, some absolutely beautiful throws and some absolutely disgusting interceptions and the most disturbing thing is that he hasn’t really progressed that much since he started playing regularly.
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
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Carson is sunshine and lollipops compared to the "QBs" we've had since 2004
"Bad is Back, thanks be to the Antichrist" - George Atkinson
by Ghost Raider on Dec 27, 2011 4:20 AM PST up reply actions
Aside from JC
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
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I would argue Jason is a better QB for this team
and I have a major issue with the manner and circumstances that surrounded Carson becoming a Raider add to that the erratic play on the field this season and over his career as a whole in my opinion it leaves a lot to be skeptical of.
I really don’t like being negative at all but I call it how I see it, I have said repeatedly that Carson has the skills to be a top 5 QB in the NFL but the problem is the lack of consistency and penchant for horrible INT’s watched a fair amount of Carson throughout his career in Cincy mainly as I loved watching Ocho Cinco in his prime and aside from 3 seasons he just hasn’t been the QB that some people would have you believe.
I would expect Carson to improve again after going through a full offseason but the issue I have was that the trade was made for THIS season and as I said at the time we are and were MUCH more than Carson Palmer away from winning the super bowl. We may have been Carson Palmer away from making the playoffs but this organisation is not and never has been about making the playoffs the Raiders are about winning SUPERBOWLS and I do not believe we are closer to winning a superbowl by getting Carson and giving up very valuable draft picks than we would have been by waiting out JC’s injury and getting him back and adding to the squad we have through first round talent in the draft.
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
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One stat I saw from MAK that was interesting was the amount of 40+ yards receptions.
He has 10 in 9 games. He has, in all of his seasons where he played a full 16 games only one season where he threw more, 15.
I know this is important to many of us who felt good about JC but needed him to strike deep with the speed and moves our young receivers have; and personally I found him wanting. JC just couldnt pull the trigger on that deep ball, and if he did he was never as accurate as Palmer has displayed thus far.
Yes, Palmer looked like shyte against KC, but seeing those two deep balls, the touchdown for 61 yards to Moore and the 53 yarder to DHB to set up the FG, I seriously doubt JC could place those. The guy I was watching the game with is old like me and when we watched that arc of his bomb to Moore he just muttered ‘Lamonica’…it was beautiful.
Not going to advocate for either guy as each has his plus/minus category but that stat alone I mentioned is important.
Happy Holidays
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Dec 27, 2011 7:38 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed he has the deep ball
But what about all the turnovers if we were playing a playoff team we would have been killed because of him. We all love the deep but I love not turning over more. when you look at all the AFC teams in the playoffs all have good defense but the Pats but they have a high powered offense. Our offense isn’t better than most the other teams defense. All I want from palmer is to play within the system and don’t try to be a hero.
But, then again a bomb is kind of like a punt
In the aspect of Farve. As long as its not the short passes getting picked, he’s definitely not afraid to air it out. It seems he’s learning he can make the more crazy throws with Moore. And if DHB is open it’s on. Be sure nice to have Jacoby back this week.
AFC West Assassins...
when it's third and twenty
or the Raiders are in a prevent defense
Like I said, I am not advocating for either and just pointed out something that separates the two QBs.
My jury on Palmer is out. I want to see what he is about next season. Full camp, OTA…the full nine yards. I want our backs healthy as our running game is brutal and sets up opportunities like a sweet deep pass.
He doesnt have to be a hero, but I think a sense of urgency is on him to produce, and like at KC he can look spectacularly bad.
But Stabler used to look like that too, and be a pick-meister. Yin and Yang.
Chill…try and dwell on something positive. Seriously, you dont have to beat the shit out of all of us here…lol…even us KoolAid swillers….we just see a glass half full. we know whats wrong with the team, we know we dont have the D we need, or playcalling when it counts, but its OUR team, so we keep upbeat and faithful. You cant kill us for that.
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Dec 27, 2011 8:23 AM PST up reply actions
I never got to see Stabler play I was born in 1981
But From what I saw from Raider history he played big when it mattered. But back then you could turn the ballover cause many teams couldn’t strike quick and hurt you like today. I see the glass half full but I refuse allow us to be lead blindly. I want him to be great but I can’t just give it to him like many have. We need both on this site the ying and Yang. I want us to win I am upbeat about next season but as long as we have our current DC we would have to score 50 ppg to win the superbowl
only 50 points
Man you have more faith in Chuckles than I do. LOL
"Now I know what your thinking, did he fire six shots or only five. Ive forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being that this is the 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, you have to ask your question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk!"
Dirty Harry Callahan
I agree with this
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
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I'd ask the same
But when your coach has consistently used the words “Save the season” and then threw your name in there, I could see trying to do it by yourself.
Add on top of that my long standing point that Palmer was the only reason Cincy was ever competitive and you’ll see why this guy feels like he needs to win games by himself. He will be broken of that eventually, because we aren’t a one note team anymore.
"The Raiders are the Bad Guy Professional Wrestlers of the NFL. Everybody hates us, and loves nothing more then to watch us lose. We got the costumes, we got the facepaint, and the attitude. All we are missing is a bunch of rednecks to start chanting USA USA USA at us..." - ME
"Contrary to popular belief, Al Davis is in heaven. Satan did not want Al in his domain, since Al already owns 49% of Hell and has always been known as a "Demon's Owner" " - ME
Follow me on Twitter: @JasonViolation
by TheDudeAbides138 on Dec 27, 2011 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
Along as Palmer quits forcing the ball into double or triple coverage
I’m Ok with him.
Being a hero is part of this system, Hue has designed it that way.
Hue has to temper Carson’s natural instinct (that he can make any throw) and get him to throw it away if the play isn’t there or better yet, have a check down for every play and maybe get a first down or two.
I figure as Hue matures into his position, Carson will too, did we pay too much for him? …maybe, would we be 4-11 right now without him ?…probably.
The position we were in at the time we had no choice… if we wanted to win… then Carson was the guy and Cincy knew that and it was going to cost us to get him.
What’s done is done, what we do with him now is what counts.
"Now I know what your thinking, did he fire six shots or only five. Ive forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being that this is the 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, you have to ask your question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk!"
Dirty Harry Callahan
+100
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
ONE NATION UNDER AL
Respect the reputation or it's an altercation.
by Ozraider on Dec 27, 2011 1:37 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn't mind either, but IMO I have Carson slightly ahead of JC....
Carson’s execution of the 2-minute offense/drill is far superior of that which JC’s typical safe/checkdown preference.
Every man for himself...
Carson has more Deer in the Head light moments
he has been sacked way more than JC
+1000,000,000,000,000.99 @RaiderPrider20
"THE TIME TO WIN IS NOW" - Coach Hue Jackson
Raider Nation..........we need all hand's on deck or get the hell off the ship! That's the way it's gonna be around here from now on! If trading away a couple of first round draft picks can get you a proven franchise quarterback like Carson Palmer and a legitimate shot at going to the playoffs, then fine...............you know why? Because this team is standing behind it's motto & legacy, "Just Win Baby!" and "Commitment to Excellence" instead of "Suck for Luck" & "Give Up". Imagine if you were a fan of a team that actually bought into that.......
Cheers,
- Saint
http://SportsnSpaceTalk.freeforums.org/
by The MoonMan 804 on Dec 27, 2011 4:24 AM PST up reply actions
We obviously look at these numbers very differently
And if as you say only half of his seasons on the NFL have been great or above average I do not see any way you could possibly look at that as consistent.
Are you also saying that Carson didn’t clearly put up stats in garbage time against Miami and Green Bay?
I am not saying Carson sucks, I have repeatedly said he has the potential to be as good as anyone in the NFL but the fact is that he hasn’t done it consistently throughout out his career playing well in 50% of your career is not consistent.
I am not trying to have a go at you, so stop taking things so personally when you made this post you must have known I would have a response so calm the hell down.
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
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Also my criticisms of Carson come from the fact that I want him to perform to firstly the level of the price we paid for him
and secondly the level of which his salary we will be paying him demands.
I just can not fathom how you can be so certain we are going to get one of his ‘good’ years next year when he is another year older and will then be 3 years from his last good year. Has he got the skill and ability to do it? yes he certainly does has he done anything over the last 2 years to make me more than 50-50 on whether he will do it? not at all and the fact is that for a certain stretches of this season he has been horrible and has not progressed to the level many expected when the trade was made.
And before you say he was sitting on the couch blah blah that is EXACTLY why it was a dumb trade to begin with at the price.
The thing that pisses me off is that i believe Hue made this trade for selfish reasons thinking that the only way to guarantee his job next year when we will have a new GM was to make the playoffs so when he saw his coaching tenure flash before his eyes when JC went down he panicked and mortgaged the future to save his own ass.
My only issues with Carson has been the interceptions and the fact is that throughout his career even with two of the best receivers in football he has always thrown a lot of INT’s and even this year before D-Moe got hurt he was throwing INT’s, everyone said that it would stop when he settled in by the fact is that it hasn’t.
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You know I'm not usually one to see all the positives
but I think Carson’s play will improve. All of his numbers this year are outliers. From YPC to TD% to INT% to his Passer Rating, his numbers are vastly different than his career averages. It somewhat paints a relatively clear story. Carson is throwing the ball deep much more often than he did in Cincy. He has a much higher YPC, more interceptions than his career average, lower completion percentages, and already ten (!!!) passes of 40+ yards. It shows the high risk/high reward aspect of Hue’s playcalling, but also shows a lack of chemistry with receivers/decision making. I think these are the things that will get ironed out this offseason.
There are also two separate issues that you seem to be combining into a “Carson Palmer” problem. First is his ability to play consistently good football. Second is the salary he is owed/the picks we gave up to acquire him. I doubt many people are going to praise the trade unless it leads us to the AFC Championship game/Superbowl because it was a very steep price. His salary for the next few years will probably not be an issue. I could see him reworking his contract like he did this year because he gets to play football for a somewhat local team with a lot of young talent to build around. I don’t see him as an overly selfish guy, just like I didn’t see JC as an overly selfish guy.
Side note: why does it feel like all of our offensive players are team first guys but all of the defensive players are money/me first guys?
i completely agree, sometimes the defense just doesnt look like they are on the same team as the offense.
I think its because we have better leaders on the offensive side of the ball. On defense all we have is Seymour and he forgot to lead for awhile this year.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
i hope he does renegotiate
it would go along way to placating me especially since our only avenue for significant improvement in the offseason is free agency.
I also don’t think the price we paid for him in the trade and his play are separable, he needs to play to a certain level to ensure the price we paid is not detrimental to the team.
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
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Renegotiating would be great and I do also hope he does that. In this day in age I hope for it without expecting it though.
That is a good point on the trade value but the problem with it is that the players we drafted might not have succeeded. The picks were very valuable if used correctly but there is no way we can know if they would have been. For all we know we are already exponentially better by not having to trust guys that will never be good.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
But don't you think Jason and another first round talent to add to the defence
Is of more value than just Carson, even if we were guaranteed to miss the playoffs this year without the trade as as has played out we were very unlikely to be able to integrate Carson and make a serious playoff run anyway.
I guess the other thing that gets under my skin is that when I and some others were against the trade at the beginning we were labelled ‘non-fans’ and ridiculed and lectured about how great Carson would be after a few weeks to settle in and the rest of the crap and after now seeing the results on te field it has played out exactly how I thought it would at the start.
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
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by Ozraider on Dec 27, 2011 1:45 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Nope thats using hindsight and not foresight, im much more ok with the making the move to try and make a run now. Cant use hindsight to decide to be against it now when I was for it when it happened.
I would rather have had Jason stay healthy but Im not ok with throwing away a promising season by being too worried about a possible draft pick that might not work out. I like making the move to win now especially with the past years of ineptitude, it showed a change in the culture to one that believed in itself and wanted to win. I think showing that does more for our future than if we had just given up and said fuck it. We needed to do whatever we can to get to a winning season, because 2002 was way too long ago to be ok with throwing away another season this year imo.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 2:00 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah that is a fair way of looking at it too
But I don’t know if it’s hindsight when there were many people who saw the situation we are in now coming from the start and I just don’t feel like we are closer to winning a superbowl now than we were before the trade regardless of the playoffs this year.
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
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by Ozraider on Dec 27, 2011 2:17 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
i over reacted with my rant and definitely took it more personal than i needed to
It just really REALLY pissed me off when you said I was making up excuses and blaming other people after I worked really hard on getting all these stats. I anticipated you saying he was inconsistent but I did not in the slightest anticipate a personal attack and being accused of making excuses after a post that I intentionally left fairly void of my own opinion. I simply disagree with his being considered so inconsistent by you and I believe that any quarterback would have done poorly in that environment. Ocho was a great player but he was a cancer for them and I have never ever liked Marvin Lewis as a head coach. I reacted badly when u accused me of negated things that I did not consider relevant when the discussion was simply what his career stats looked like from year to year.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
i do apologize for such a long rant, i didnt realize i bitched so much until it was posted and i saw how long it was
Ur initial comment felt very personal though and I did not anticipate a comment that felt like a personal attack. I am looking at the Palmer situation in a way that I think is real and fair, our disagreements just stem from how different we felt about him throughout his career. I just really don’t like being accused of looking at it as sunshine and lollipops when I would be defending him even if he was on a different team. My take on Carson is not just from him being a Raider, its how I have always felt about him.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
haha it's all good bro
i just find it annoying that a lot of people not specifically you really just make excuses every time something negative is brought up about Carson, it’s always receivers running the wrong routes or injuries or the wind was blowing the wrong way etc etc but the botom line is he is the one pulling the trigger on those INT’s.
I didn’t mean the ‘making excuses’ thing to come across like it did.
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I am definitely one that makes excuses for him too often but I am not blind and definitely agree that he is culpable in lots of his mistakes
Many really are from other factors but even then it doesnt excuse his bad play. We are all just up in arms on him because we want him to be so good and it could be something we never get from him. I just have always had a lot of faith in what he can do and am excited about what I think will happen in the future with him. I dont have any clairvoyant abilities though and it is based somewhat around hope. He is definitely responsible for his lack of more success as well as the the rest of the team and as a QB should be more responsible than others on the team. I just never respected that Bengals team while really respecting Carson as a quarterback.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
yeah thats fair
I do have faith that he has the ability to do but I just need him to show me something more than what he has.
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that is definitely fair too. As a Raider he has only shown flashes and not nearly enough of them.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
I'm definitely the biggest Palmer cheerleader
And have no problem with the excuses I’ve seen.
Are you correct in saying he’s a bit too crazy with the ball sometimes? Most definitely.
I just don’t think you can really make the judgement call yet. The price was steep but Palmer had nothing to do with that. The facts are you do need to allow a bit of time for this guy to build with his receivers. That’s the only “excuse” I’ve really made for him and in my opinion it’s more a reason then an excuse.
Timing is the number one thing that will make or break a passing game. It’s not like they are playing three flies up out there (Even if the vertical game resembles exactly that sometimes). In all reality I feel like his stat line to this point is absolutely amazing at this point in time.
I like many others were too young to see the greatest of our legends play the game. I never had the pleasure of seeing a Lamonica, or a Stabler play the game. While I’ve definitely done my homework and watched as much old footage as I could I never got to watch the history get made. My generation’s cream of the crop was Hostetler and Gannon. And neither of those guys were the archtype vertical passing game QB.
Palmer is the first guy I’ve seen in a Raider uniform that has a cannon arm, and balls of steel. This dude is not afraid. That could be his detriment as well, but I’ll take the picks over a lack of confidence any day. Especially when he’s backing it up with points on the board.
I still feel this team is Super Bowl worthy as it stands. When they are on, they can beat any team in the league without a doubt in my mind. These guys just have to figure out how to turn it on at will instead of finding it here and there.
"The Raiders are the Bad Guy Professional Wrestlers of the NFL. Everybody hates us, and loves nothing more then to watch us lose. We got the costumes, we got the facepaint, and the attitude. All we are missing is a bunch of rednecks to start chanting USA USA USA at us..." - ME
"Contrary to popular belief, Al Davis is in heaven. Satan did not want Al in his domain, since Al already owns 49% of Hell and has always been known as a "Demon's Owner" " - ME
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by TheDudeAbides138 on Dec 27, 2011 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
This is fair
But my problem remains that the trade was made and the price was paid to make a run THIS year. If we are still saying ‘he needs time to settle in’ with one week left in the season what the hell was the point of the trade?!
Damn Peyton Manning or maybe even Sam Bradford depending who ends up with luck could be available this offseason
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by Ozraider on Dec 27, 2011 4:53 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I know it's not his fault and I am
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by Ozraider on Dec 27, 2011 4:53 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I know the price an the timing were not his choice
But it is impossible to separate from te judgement of him as a player. I feel bad for him he was thrust in to a almost impossible situation by a man blinded by desperation.
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by Ozraider on Dec 27, 2011 4:57 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Well here's the thing with that
You are correct with the statement about making a run this year. I was drunk on the kool-aid also and thought that we were Super Bowl bound with the addition of Palmer.
I forgot the very same thing I’ve pointed out now. I fully admit that, but looking into this from what I’ve seen, and what I measure for the future I think the price tag is warranted and actually not a bad deal.
We get a QB that can flat out play. Maybe he does need some more time and repetitions with his teammates to fully unlock what I feel he can bring, but seeing as I’ve lived through Todd Marinovich, Marc Wilson, and the bust to end all busts I’m much happier using 1st round picks to get a QB.
Jay Cutler was traded for two first round picks also, and look what Denver got for that. Tebow is by no means a QB, he’s a one trick pony and he’s going to be out of the league in a few seasons unless he switches to FB.
We just traded a 7th round pick for the number 4 player picked in the draft a few years ago. I understand that I am not mentioning the Cam Newtons, or Andy Daltons that have been pulled but lets face it. The chances of a bust coming from a 1st round pick are high. I’ll take the guy who I already KNOW can compete at the highest level over the guy who MIGHT be able to.
By no means do I think ANY of your points are wrong Oz. I see exactly where you are coming from, and I understand it as well. Oakland did pay a heavy price to get a QB, but they did what they had to do. We could absolutely find ourselves a cornerstone had we not made the trade, but we also could have drafted another Darrel Russel.
I think FA will be how we find the final pieces we need to really make a run at a Super Bowl next season. Oakland is becoming a place good players are going to want to come to. I also think that Palmer is going to re-negotiate his contract to help us out. After all his whole situation was NEVER about money. Hopefully a few of the other vets that alot of posters on here feel are “over-paid” will be willing to do the same.
"The Raiders are the Bad Guy Professional Wrestlers of the NFL. Everybody hates us, and loves nothing more then to watch us lose. We got the costumes, we got the facepaint, and the attitude. All we are missing is a bunch of rednecks to start chanting USA USA USA at us..." - ME
"Contrary to popular belief, Al Davis is in heaven. Satan did not want Al in his domain, since Al already owns 49% of Hell and has always been known as a "Demon's Owner" " - ME
Follow me on Twitter: @JasonViolation
by TheDudeAbides138 on Dec 27, 2011 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
And that should say
Using 1st round picks to trade for a QB.
"The Raiders are the Bad Guy Professional Wrestlers of the NFL. Everybody hates us, and loves nothing more then to watch us lose. We got the costumes, we got the facepaint, and the attitude. All we are missing is a bunch of rednecks to start chanting USA USA USA at us..." - ME
"Contrary to popular belief, Al Davis is in heaven. Satan did not want Al in his domain, since Al already owns 49% of Hell and has always been known as a "Demon's Owner" " - ME
Follow me on Twitter: @JasonViolation
by TheDudeAbides138 on Dec 27, 2011 6:31 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah I can't really disagree with anything that you say here
As I have said I do believe Palmer has the skills and ability to be a top 5 quarterback but I guess the roller coaster of this season has left me very bitter and twisted especially after losing the great man Al Davis.
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
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by Ozraider on Dec 27, 2011 6:56 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Aren't we Raider fans?
Go be girls and bitch at each other somewhere else.. this isn’t Facebook ffs
by Brazzers on Dec 27, 2011 4:20 AM PST via mobile reply actions
+1,000,000,000,000,000.99
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
"THE TIME TO WIN IS NOW" - Coach Hue Jackson
Raider Nation..........we need all hand's on deck or get the hell off the ship! That's the way it's gonna be around here from now on! If trading away a couple of first round draft picks can get you a proven franchise quarterback like Carson Palmer and a legitimate shot at going to the playoffs, then fine...............you know why? Because this team is standing behind it's motto & legacy, "Just Win Baby!" and "Commitment to Excellence" instead of "Suck for Luck" & "Give Up". Imagine if you were a fan of a team that actually bought into that.......
Cheers,
- Saint
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by The MoonMan 804 on Dec 27, 2011 4:32 AM PST up reply actions
no-one is bitching at anyone we are discussing differing opinions in a topic which is what blogs like this are all about
Both sides are making valid points, if you would like to actually contribute to the discussion feel free.
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Thanks for defending me Oz but its safe to say i was bitching lol!
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
Hey bro we might disagree on this but your still my boy :)
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by Ozraider on Dec 27, 2011 1:47 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
For sure Oz, we both have valid opinions with reasons for them. I let it get more heated than it should have been but we are still cool lol
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
i admit to bitching for sure
However it was all football related and I included stats through my rant so it certainly belonged on this site. Its not Facebook and it wasn’t about non football items. Calling us girls and telling us to go elsewhere when we are long time established members of this blot is out of line, especially from someone who did not put any valid football related insight on this entire thread. You want to make anybody feel like your opinion is valid and belong how about you try talking football. Instead of doing that you just bitched about two people having a discussion completely and only related to Raiders football. Hypocritical for sure.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
Bro..
Reading all of this sounds like a personal issue. Sure you make valid stats, but it seems your main point is to attack Oz. I’m not one to argue so I’ll stop here.. But my advice: Calm the eff down! :P Life’s too short to take things seriously. Esp an issue of whether or not a dude likes Carson Palmer or not. Stats are stats. And in my realist mentality I ignore the woulda shoulda couldas! My opinion? There’s times I love Carson, and times I want to drink myself into hibernation (Actually, this applies for the Raiders as a whole). But he’s been here long enough to where I’m done making excuses for him. Carson can be as good as he wants to be but it all means nothing as long as Bres is still calling the D.
by Brazzers on Dec 27, 2011 1:51 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Already calmed down Brazzers and it was a defensive reaction from a percieved attack.
Again, I wasnt making excuses for Carson and being told I was is what got under my skin although it was a misunderstanding. It was something that has been heated multiple times with me and Oz but we still are cool with each other, its not like I was going to hunt him down. It was a personal attack rant that I apologized for but it was a direct response to a specific comment. It was not a personal attack that came out of no where.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
Nah man I got cha..
My brother is a huge Seahawk fan, while I’m a Raiders, and I know how easily little disputes can grow like wildfire. I’m just a liberal when it comes to war (esp civil which this was the case)! Any fan of the Raiders is a friend of mine.. But can’t we all just get along? :)
by Brazzers on Dec 27, 2011 5:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
lol yeah that is definitely how it is with the wildfire sibling comment
We can’t all get along all the time but we can try lol
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 7:17 PM PST up reply actions
The two numbers that stand out
Are his 3.9% TD ratio and his 5.3% INT ratio. These are both significantly different than his career averages (4.7% and 3.3%). To me, this says Carson has either not fully grasped the playbook yet or he has not developed enough chemistry with his receiving core. With the way things have gone, you could argue its both of these things.
I think next season we will see a huge jump in efficiency. Getting McFadden back and having a healthy Ford/Moore/DHB should do wonders for his accuracy. As long as his ability doesn’t further deteriorate, he will look something like 2009 Carson Palmer, which is something I think Raider fans should live with and feel good about.
If we got the 09 Palmer I would be happy with that.
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
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One thing everyone overlooks is Palmer holds on the ball too long he gets sacked a ton
It’s like everyone drools over the deep ball that you forget he hasn’t out play anyone. 4-4 as a starter more ints than touchdowns. If we would have made this same trade for Mark Sanchez and he played like Palmer everyone would be pissed. But for some Reason Carson gets the free pass. He is going to be great he is going to win us a superbowl and tons of other things but when I watch him play I don’t see it. Palmer has played the same as he did his years with the Bengals he had one good game SD then a bunch of okay to below avg games. People when are we going to learn you can’t beat teams just throwing the deep ball the deep ball opens up what you can do on offense but to say we going to win a super bowl throwing the ball deep is Crazy. The Packer and saints have the best Deep ball QB’s in the NFL but they don’t just throw deep they have weapon all over. The only Proven weapon we have is DMC. Moore, Ford and DHB aren’t there yet We have to get a Tight end who can hurt teams Kevin Boss isn’t what we thought he was going to be. I agree with OZ it’s like everyone over looks the sacks and int’s because of the deep ball.
Green Bay fans preached that same thing about Rodgers
I guess it turned out good for them.
AFC West Assassins...
Are you really comparing Palmer to Rodgers
yeah they are really unhappy about Rodgers worst season with 28 TD’s and 13ints thats something to upset about right.
That's just the first thing that came to mind
You can’t compare Palmer to Rodgers because not to many teams have a WR corps like he does. I sure hope ours continues to grow. But, when you look at the great teams, that’s kind of what you have to compare to.
AFC West Assassins...
Every team goes has this qb thing 49ers Montana and Young
But my problem is everyone is crowning palmer as to be the first person to say I told you so. Why can’t he earn it like everyone else is all I am saying. I hate the trade cause of the picks but if we wins some superbowls all will be forgotten
Yeah nobody likes what we gave up and its hard to compartmentalize it but it is possible we would have screwed up on those picks. They werent guaranteed to better our team, they just had a high probability of it.
I think he has earned us thinking highly of him but i admit I am one that gives him more credit than he has earned as a Raider.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
2 things Palmer is not
1. Peyton Manning
2. Jamarcus Russel
I am happy that we have a QB that can throw. However , it troubles me a bit that JC is going to get the bums rush out of Oakland. He showed leadership when he opened his wallet and home to his teammates to have a “Training camp” While he may not be a rah rah guy he is a class act.
Palmer,had some great years in Cincy. However he is going to have a ferrari to drive here. If Mcfadden could ever have an injury free year he could post monster numbers not seen since Bo was here. The wide outs have speed galore and with crisper patterns ,which would require a WR coach, and a thicker hardier line. Wiz and Veld are only going to get better stronger and wiser. Lets face it they are kids.B Campbell needs a shot as well.
We have always had a good stock of TE.
But really as posted in another thread .Its time we all faced the fact that what made the Raider teams of the past great,with the exception of the Gruden years was a Defense. We can score all the TDs we want but if we cannot stop teams, especially in the last 2 minutes 8-8 is about were we will always be. Plunkett,Stabler,Lamonica were all great QBS for the Raiders but were they Montanas,Marinos,Mannings?….no it was the D and the take aways..Jack Squirek’s SB INT the total domination of the SKINS and Eagles….man we made Dick Vermeil cry….If the D catches this budding O and they collectively play like they can ,this team will be great,With that Carson Palmer could become a most beloved Raider QB. Short fields and repeated successful trips to the red zone,or Long time consuming drives and a crushing D. It matters not which you prefer,to make a QB a legend it takes a team effort ,All 3 phases of the game working well is what it takes to win Winning is how this league measures success .Credit for winning or losing is always given to the Coach and the QB. They are the leadership positions.I have seen Palmer talking to his WR this year between plays. I think he will take the leadership role like has not been done in sometime.
There are a lot of people down on Carson and Hue. I see hope .Had someone told me we would lose our starting QB have the worst D in the league,Suffer the loss of one of the greatest football minds ever,be decimated with injuries all year and still have a shot to win our Division in week 16 I would have said HELL YEAH….BRING IT. This season is not Palmers fault,not Hues fault, its not even the Pandas fault….its the NFL and thats why they play games not simulate them on Madden 11.
I am not going to crucify Carson cause he gets sacked,or throws INT.Carson is a gunslinger,like Favre. With QBS Like that you take the good with the bad. However when you wear the Daddy pants like the QB does you also have to take the criticism as well.
by Canadian Raider on Dec 27, 2011 7:43 AM PST reply actions
and thankfully for us....
he’s a lot closer to Peyton than to JaFatass
"Now I know what your thinking, did he fire six shots or only five. Ive forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being that this is the 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, you have to ask your question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk!"
Dirty Harry Callahan
We just need to win this week
He’s had like 9 weeks to prepare. Lets get this thing done. It is what it is with Palmer. JC’s out. So that’s spinning our wheels talking about that comparison. Just have to trust the coaches to make the right decisions moving forward. All I know is we were 8-8 last year with crap decisions with this QB controversy getting in the way. And this year we have at least that same record with tons of key injuries.
AFC West Assassins...
well Palmer seems to have a favorable career record against the Chargers
Heres to keeping that alive! P.S. I think I would rather have the #6 seed than the #4. Houston would be a much better opponent in the first round than the Ravens or Steelers
Doesn't matter what Palmer's done against SD
Micheal Bush’s numbers against SD suggest we should run the ball 90000 times.
If there was ever a team I’d bench McFadden over Bush with it would be this one.
"The Raiders are the Bad Guy Professional Wrestlers of the NFL. Everybody hates us, and loves nothing more then to watch us lose. We got the costumes, we got the facepaint, and the attitude. All we are missing is a bunch of rednecks to start chanting USA USA USA at us..." - ME
"Contrary to popular belief, Al Davis is in heaven. Satan did not want Al in his domain, since Al already owns 49% of Hell and has always been known as a "Demon's Owner" " - ME
Follow me on Twitter: @JasonViolation
by TheDudeAbides138 on Dec 27, 2011 4:18 PM PST up reply actions
I have a very good feeling Carson plays this week like he did against the Lions.
Our team is going to show up, the Oco will be rocking and they’ll take advantage of StD’s front office distractions.
"Bad is Back, thanks be to the Antichrist" - George Atkinson
Im certainly alot more comfortable with Palmer over Cambell. JC was a good game manager but always seemed to dissapear in games and look like a deer in the heaslights.
I Cant imagine him continuing to win games after losing DMAC , ford , moore , jones and everyone else we’ve been playing without.
by Sonoma County Raider fan on Dec 27, 2011 8:54 AM PST reply actions
im trying to figure out
why this is still an issue?? If jackson had gone and got kim kardashian THATS who we would have gotten. what we gave up is a moot point.
If the Raiders can manage getting into these playoffs
It will slightly resemble the 1980 season for me.
Five weeks into the Raiders season, starting QB Dan Pastorini broke his leg in a game against the Kansas City Chiefs. 33-year-old Jim Plunkett came off the bench to relieve Pastorini and had a terrible performance, throwing 5 interceptions in a 31-17 loss. The Raiders, thinking that Marc Wilson did not have the experience they wanted, called on Plunkett to start for the remainder of the year. In his first game as a starter, he completed eleven of fourteen passes with a touchdown and no interceptions, beginning one of the greatest comeback stories in the history of the sport. Plunkett guided Oakland to nine victories in eleven games and a playoff berth as a wild-card. Then, even more remarkably, rather than suffering an early defeat which marks the typical fate of NFL wild card teams, Plunkett led the Raiders to four playoff victories, including the Super Bowl, where they defeated the Philadelphia Eagles, 27–10, in Super Bowl XV. Throwing for 261 yards and three touchdowns, Plunkett was named the game’s MVP.
They are both Heisman trophy winners from California also.
Cool to think about
AFC West Assassins...
HIGE DIFFERENCE FROM THE 1980 RAIDERS; THEIR DEFENSE WAS FAR MORE RESPECTABLE. TODAY'S D IS SUCH A FRUSTRATING DISSAPOINTMENT.
by autumn_fart on Dec 27, 2011 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
You have to take into account that this is not the 1980's. Look at how many rules there are today compared to back then.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
lol right?! itd be a lot easier if we could just clothesline people like in the 60s
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
lol that would be a lot of fun.
I think Seymour would love to be in that era. lol
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
lol absolutely! his punching out of Rapistberger would have been considered just good football
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 11:02 AM PST up reply actions
yeah those pictures of the one Raider who is covered in it are great.
I cant think of the player though, was it Lester Hayes?
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
When I met Lester
I almost called him “Mr. Stickum”
Thought better of it though, because I never knew if that was a part of the history he embraced or not.
One of the nicest professional athletes I’ve ever met.
"The Raiders are the Bad Guy Professional Wrestlers of the NFL. Everybody hates us, and loves nothing more then to watch us lose. We got the costumes, we got the facepaint, and the attitude. All we are missing is a bunch of rednecks to start chanting USA USA USA at us..." - ME
"Contrary to popular belief, Al Davis is in heaven. Satan did not want Al in his domain, since Al already owns 49% of Hell and has always been known as a "Demon's Owner" " - ME
Follow me on Twitter: @JasonViolation
by TheDudeAbides138 on Dec 27, 2011 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
lol!
I posted almost the exact same thing right after Palmer’s first start (and 2nd loss) for us! I still remember the doomsayers from that 1980 season screaming to replace Plunkett. LOL.
Raider 4 Life
Plunkett's first outing in replacing Pastorini was a goat-fuck....he looked awful.
But as he settled in he threw less picks and the D helped.
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Dec 29, 2011 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
I would say DMC iz probably out, and we wont be told until later. I thought Ford was close to coming back bit it was probably just more BS about our injuries.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
Wed
Thats when Hue lets it slip who was out. I would say expect Bush and not DMC. Ford, no word on if he is even practicing this week yet either. Huff sounds like he will be back though, get Boyd out of there.
by lakers007raiders on Dec 27, 2011 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
I know JC wants to start and he'll get some good offers, but I really wish we could convince him to stay!!!!!!
Every man for himself...
i would love to get him to stay but it does all depend on whats out there.
With how many rookie QBs start nowadays though he might not get that many offers and if he is going to be a back up he would probably stay here.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
After JC got hurt, I wanted to get Palmer as much as anybody else. I really never watched him as a Bengal, just heard that he was a proven pro.
I did watch alot of him during his USC years and that was good enough for me. Now that I have watched him play all the last sevearl weeks, this is what this fan sees; he has the arm, and the talent to make some great plays. He can also see the field well, and has a thorough knowlege of the game. WHAT HE DOES LACK IS THIS; the ability to move around in the pocket, the ability to refrain from stupid throws, and most importantly, he doesn’t seem to have that fire or know how to keep a drive going, that extra edge. Gannon had that, Hostetler had it, Brees has it, Manning, even Rivers. In other words, late in the game, he appears to just follow Hue’s calling, and folds when everything breaks down where other Qbs make that extra effort to make something happen. Idk, its just what I see, even JC has a little bit of that fire.
I think that will come with more time in this offense
most importantly, he doesn’t seem to have that fire or know how to keep a drive going, that extra edge.
When Carson has the whole playbook memorized and has a better idea of the players around him he will feel more comfortable in taking over the offense in crunch time.
That ability doesn’t come quickly and with the injuries to the very players Palmer needs to have chemistry with, it’s taken even longer.
The ability to audible out of Hues plays at any time will come eventually, but probably not fully this year.
We’ve already seen him audible though and usually it works out, so I have confidence that when all the a fore mentioned things come to pass (playbook memorization and chemistry) that Carson will be able to run this offense seamlessly and our point totals will rise significantly.
Now if we only had a defense!
"Now I know what your thinking, did he fire six shots or only five. Ive forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being that this is the 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, you have to ask your question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk!"
Dirty Harry Callahan
I hated the price we paid for Palmer.
But here is what I think. Palmer started mid-season, so next year I expect more chemistry with the WRs, and more consistency.
Palmer can make the throw anywhere on the field. But here is the beautiful thing: We are a running team still. When we have McFadden and Bush in the backfield, teams will fear our running game. And whats a great compliment to a great running game? A passing game, with a guy who can throw it anywhere on the field, to any of 3-5 explosive receiving options (3 WR, 2 RB set. Moore, Ford, DHB, McFadden, Reece). Now THAT is a dynamic, and Dangerous offense. JC knows how to take care of the ball in terms of throwing it, but he can’t give us that.
Palmer has been known to throw INTs, and INTs hurt us. BUt I can argue that penalties hurt us MUCH MUCH worse than most INTs can (most). Also, I DO expect Palmer to gain more chemistry next year, and get more consistent. WIth that in mind, I absolutely love where our offense is going with palmer.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
by Jack'sAxe on Dec 27, 2011 10:48 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I thought the same with the price we paid but if we make the playoffs, giving up a first rounder is worth it.
And if we give up a second first rounder, that means we got into an afc championship game and in position to contend for a ring. I think I’d be able to live with that. I really like JC however, but i wonder if we can get a pick or two for him.
by autumn_fart on Dec 27, 2011 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
I'd like to keep JC
as a veteran backup.
I’m not sure which other team would give him a starting look.
Raiders definately need to resign Mr. Campbell
simply input incentives for games, starts, etc in case he becomes the starting qb
DMC IS LIKE A NAMDI ASUMGHUA, A MICHAEL VICK; HE WILL NOT BE A 16 GAME PLAYER.
He is such an explosive player, its why he is successful and fun to watch. That is why he’ll always get hurt. I say we trade him for a proven MLB, S, and or a pick or two to shore up our weaknesses. We havr a great back in Bush, and a few proven and explosive backups/FBs. This would negate the two potential first rounders we gave up for CP.
abso-fuckin-lutely sky. We definitely need to get him the ball more. Especially in space on the flat, he seems unstoppable when we utilize him.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
Definitely
The under utilization of Reece is another failing of Hue.
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
ONE NATION UNDER AL
Respect the reputation or it's an altercation.
by Ozraider on Dec 27, 2011 3:46 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Me neither, especially when they said they would get him more involved. He needs to be a key cog and not just used once in awhile.
I have never heard of a receiver in college becoming a FB in the NFL the way he has. He changed his body completely and still is so fast. He is incredibly impressive.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
I sometimes wonder if the coaches are watching the same game we are
by skycrane on Dec 27, 2011 12:18 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
I think this comment should be Green.
It is true for every sports fan of every team in history that has a coach and did not go undefeated! lol Rec’d
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
I sometimes wonder whether WE are all watching the same game.
LOL
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
ONE NATION UNDER AL
Respect the reputation or it's an altercation.
by Ozraider on Dec 27, 2011 3:48 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I don't like how he forces it
into double and triple coverage.
I don’t like his shovel pass.
I don’t like his interception numbers.
I don’t like how he doesn’t use our TE as much as he should.
I do like how he’s improved his short pass.
I do like the yards per game he manages to get.
I hope you don't perceive this as nit picking
But I’ve never seen much skill in throwing a shovel pass.
It’s literally an extended hand off.
"The Raiders are the Bad Guy Professional Wrestlers of the NFL. Everybody hates us, and loves nothing more then to watch us lose. We got the costumes, we got the facepaint, and the attitude. All we are missing is a bunch of rednecks to start chanting USA USA USA at us..." - ME
"Contrary to popular belief, Al Davis is in heaven. Satan did not want Al in his domain, since Al already owns 49% of Hell and has always been known as a "Demon's Owner" " - ME
Follow me on Twitter: @JasonViolation
by TheDudeAbides138 on Dec 30, 2011 10:15 PM PST up reply actions
I do like your answer....
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Jan 1, 2012 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
Nice Blog Battle!!!!!
You and Oz, toe to toe in the ring of Palmer!!! One day only, Tuesday, Tuesday, Tuesday!!!! Hahahaha, good stuff. I often forget we all love the Raiders :P Well made points Gents, the only consensus is that a) Nobody really likes the loss of our draft picks (although I don’t care too much really), b) We should Palmer a full season to get adjusted, and c) We all think JC is a stand up dude :) Oh, and a universal “FIRE CHUCK.” I say this, Palmer throws a pretty good deep ball and gets us down the field pretty well. He makes some absolutely cringe worthy interceptions and is stiffer than Peyton Manning when he runs and moves in the pocket. In the end, I like him tons better than Boller and slightly (just barely) better than JC. Wait and see approach boys, always next year. I’m excited. Heres to finishing strong, maybe a playoff game or two, and a united Nation in firing Panda :D Happy holidays gents, and thanks for a wonderful blog battle. Good stuff.
by lakers007raiders on Dec 27, 2011 12:37 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
That's a pretty awesome synopsis man
:)
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
ONE NATION UNDER AL
Respect the reputation or it's an altercation.
by Ozraider on Dec 27, 2011 2:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
lmao. I pretty much like Carson when he's winning
and Jason when he’s winning…
the end.
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
"In football, I root for the Oakland Raiders because they hire castoffs, outlaws, malcontents, and fuck -ups, they have lots of penalties, fights, and paybacks, and because Al Davis told the rest of the pig NFL owners to go get fucked. Someday, the Raiders will be strong again, and they will dip the ball in shit and shove it down the throats of the wholesome, white, heartland teams that pray together and don't deliver late hits." - George Carlin.
Good Job Y'all
My opinions on Palmer have adjusted some, especially after this post.
I will say this: 1) Getting a first round player from LSU/Alabama would not have hurt. Both of their defenses are great.
2) I hope we sign JC; we CANNOT afford our QB getting injured again, whoever it is.
3) We need to change something in this defense, whether it be MLB (That ain’t happening), Safety Play (I don’t see this happening), and D-Line (MAYBE.)
We need to change this damned scheme. _ And I’m not talking about Man-to-Man.
I am a Raider Fan. But I also a player's person as well.
by NFLanalyzerfromhome on Dec 27, 2011 2:50 PM PST reply actions
1) LSU or Alabama? Might be a while before we go to those wells again in the first round.
2) JC will go somewhere where he is either a place holder for a young qb or a backup to a young qb on a short leash. He isn’t going to come back where he knows carson is the 100% #1 guy. Which he is.
3) a) PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE b) can’t see this as a priority with huff and branch, unless their opinion of huff is less than I think it is c) definitely need to add a young dt
by lchristmas on Dec 27, 2011 5:55 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Raiders have three in the pro-bowl
Mr. Seymour, Mr. Lechler, & Mr. Janokowski!
Tommy Kelly should have made it
Kelly has been the best DLine player this season. Has more sacks and tackle than everyone else
How the he'll did McFadden end up an alternate?
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
ONE NATION UNDER AL
Respect the reputation or it's an altercation.
by Ozraider on Dec 27, 2011 5:00 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
the pro bowl is american Idol for the NFL
If Peyton Manning could was on the list he would have made it.
The same way Tebow did
I wish they would take away the fan vote on the Pro Bowl.
The BEST players are supposed to go. Not the dude who gets a million votes because they pray to the same God.
"The Raiders are the Bad Guy Professional Wrestlers of the NFL. Everybody hates us, and loves nothing more then to watch us lose. We got the costumes, we got the facepaint, and the attitude. All we are missing is a bunch of rednecks to start chanting USA USA USA at us..." - ME
"Contrary to popular belief, Al Davis is in heaven. Satan did not want Al in his domain, since Al already owns 49% of Hell and has always been known as a "Demon's Owner" " - ME
Follow me on Twitter: @JasonViolation
by TheDudeAbides138 on Dec 30, 2011 10:16 PM PST up reply actions
Rivers should not be in. Dalton was robbed.
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Jan 1, 2012 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
Hooray for SeaBass ...
Finally making it in.
About f***ing TIME, man!!!
by Brett J Valjalo on Dec 27, 2011 11:13 PM PST up reply actions
You express your discomfort over Palmer's tenure being judged by how much we paid for him...
I feel the same way about DHB
exactly, very similar. not fair to blame the athlete for the front offices move
Its not that easy for most people to seperate it but I think its the most logical thing to do. Logic should tell u that’s not on the player but emotions seem to make people blame it on them anyway.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 7:21 PM PST up reply actions
My 2 cents is this
Carson Bomber has a lot of upside and some downside as has been thoroughly discussed. I believe his upside is greater than his downside and I would rate him a bit higher than JC who I definately think we should try to keep as a backup and shitcan Boller along with the fucking Panda! as for the picks I think if we make it to the AFC championship this year or next then it was worth it! I do want to say that CP3 showed me something in the GB game even though we got stomped he was doin his best I mean throwing that block after that lil shovel pass was something you would never see Brady do! I think he has decided to embrace the dark side and be a RAIDER! Time will tell but I am looking forward to this Sunday and even more towards next season!
"Just Win Baby" is not a philosophy, it is a way of life!
Like any sound lover of football, I too have a great many questions about Carson Palmer
and the obligatory BUT…
he is reminiscent of some guys of Raiders past, and so far despite a bunch of ints., he’s winning some games for us. Everyone’s points about him feeling pressure to put it all on his shoulders bears some truth, and the fact he has some very bad habits to be broken of also bears truth.
I think the title of this post says it all. It’s time for us to stop dwelling in the past on this guy, and embracing the fact he’s our quarterback and act like the Nation is backing him when we most need to. I’m on board. Go Carson, go Raiders, and go coach Jackson.
Carson’s our gunslinger now, and in the near future, so let’s try believing for a change.
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
"In football, I root for the Oakland Raiders because they hire castoffs, outlaws, malcontents, and fuck -ups, they have lots of penalties, fights, and paybacks, and because Al Davis told the rest of the pig NFL owners to go get fucked. Someday, the Raiders will be strong again, and they will dip the ball in shit and shove it down the throats of the wholesome, white, heartland teams that pray together and don't deliver late hits." - George Carlin.
Good point Brhyno you are correct
As much as I think the trade was shitty and question the motives of the man that made the trade the reality is what it is and if by some miracle we end up in the playoffs all will probably be forgiven.
Win lose or Tie Raider Till I Die!
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
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Respect the reputation or it's an altercation.
by Ozraider on Dec 27, 2011 7:03 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
That's fucked
Fire Hue! We want Chucky!
XD
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
ONE NATION UNDER AL
Respect the reputation or it's an altercation.
by Ozraider on Dec 27, 2011 7:08 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
i cant endorse firing Hue but man i would love to get Chucky back
I fucking hate AJ Smith though and would really hate him as the Raider GM.
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 7:27 PM PST up reply actions
Chucky better not go to the Chargers
+1 on no AJ Smith as GM
BTW the Raiders didn’t get much love on the ESPN Monday Night pre-game show, the part I saw no one mentioned we had lost our starting QB, RB, and Owner/GM/soul of the franchise, if this was some other team they’d be saying what a great job the Raiders were doing, even being this close to the play-offs, instead just the same shit about penalties.
"I’ve been a Raider fan for a long time. They are like a drunken father. you hope that this time they really have it together, they’re really going to try, then they show up and embarrass you." 509er after the Miami game
by Oceanside Raider on Dec 27, 2011 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
ha no problem bud!
This thread pretty much ran its course anyway but even if its full throttle I wouldn’t mind. Id rather know whats up and threads always get a life of their own anyway lol
"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis
"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi
by Marcus Allen Krause on Dec 27, 2011 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
lol.
don’t think Chucky is from what I’ve heard, due to being contracted into MNF for a few years.
but we do know if he were to go to a team to coach, it would have a prolific qb in place, so it’s intriguing nonetheless.
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
"In football, I root for the Oakland Raiders because they hire castoffs, outlaws, malcontents, and fuck -ups, they have lots of penalties, fights, and paybacks, and because Al Davis told the rest of the pig NFL owners to go get fucked. Someday, the Raiders will be strong again, and they will dip the ball in shit and shove it down the throats of the wholesome, white, heartland teams that pray together and don't deliver late hits." - George Carlin.
Seems sketchy
Like they’re all waiting to see what’s going to happen. But honestly, his talents are wasted in the booth. They can get any shmuck to be a color commentator. Still if he is leaving ESPN, better it be the Rams than the Chargers. He already humiliated us in the SB. Surely he’s not still wanting to rub it in after he got traded, right?
Carson
Remember Raider Nation, Carson hasn’t played with the full compliment of Raiders starters, D Mac, J Ford, L Murphy, T Jones, Schillens, have all spent time on injury list. Once everyone is healthy and all hands are on deck. Watch out, this has been a great year but next year should be fantastic
by ibleedsilvernblak on Dec 28, 2011 2:40 PM PST reply actions
Throw in a much better defense
because of a scheme and DC change and next year promises to be one to very excited about.
For at least one more week though…we still have this season to concern ourselves with and even though we should have sealed this ourselves earlier, we still have a fairly decent shot at the playoffs this year.
It all starts with another must win game this Sunday against Phylis Rivers and the Dolts
Go Raiders!!!
"Now I know what your thinking, did he fire six shots or only five. Ive forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being that this is the 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, you have to ask your question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk!"
Dirty Harry Callahan
At the cost of making no big plays on defense
I will say no cheering on any INT’s, because your DC would’ve been playing it safe.
Sorry for being an a$$, but I’m tired of this c###.
AFC West Assassins...
Do you think going into a prevent defense
is not playing it safe?
"Now I know what your thinking, did he fire six shots or only five. Ive forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being that this is the 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, you have to ask your question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk!"
Dirty Harry Callahan
Yet you defend Chuckles
who runs to it on cue anytime we have a lead in the 4th quarter no matter how small.
And yes it is one of our many problems on “D” some of the others being old and tired scheme, players that don’t fit said scheme and a DC who’s defensive calls leave said players out of position and ill equipped to make the plays.
"Now I know what your thinking, did he fire six shots or only five. Ive forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being that this is the 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, you have to ask your question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk!"
Dirty Harry Callahan
Also
Bengals fans arguing that Dalton is so much better when their rookie stats are basically the same:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/24822
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6337
They managed to get themselves another guy who throws a bunch of picks.
BIG TIME JCAMPBELL SUPPORTER
At the same time, I’m stoked about going to a game with playoff implications this Sunday! Let’s do it now! Let’s do it for Al!
by Campbell510 on Dec 29, 2011 10:34 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I don't care so much about what Carson has done in the past
I only care what he can do for us Sunday and hopefully the playoffs.
You know what would make a good story? Something about a clown who makes people happy, but inside he's real sad. Also, he has severe diarrhea.
Drinking helps a lot! LOL
"Now I know what your thinking, did he fire six shots or only five. Ive forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being that this is the 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, you have to ask your question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk!"
Dirty Harry Callahan
Pretty sure that we all ...
Share the same anxiety right about now.
Saturday night for me will resemble the night before xmas when I was a little kid …
by Brett J Valjalo on Dec 30, 2011 8:39 AM PST up reply actions
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