Are penalties a key reason for Raider losses?
The yellow flag was dropped on Oakland (and accepted by opponents) 148 times during the 2010 season for a game average of 9.25 penalties and a league high total of 1,279 penalty yards.
Of our 8 wins, we were penalized more than our opponent in each of 7 of those victories (only in Denver II did Oakland win and have fewer penalties).
However, of Oakland's 8 losses, the Raiders were penalized less than their opponent in 5 of those games.
The data suggests that reducing penalties does not, in itself, generate more wins. In fact, the data shows that when the Raiders strived to reduce penalties they always lost, e.g. Houston (2 penalties), Miami (4), Jacksonville (4), Pittsburgh (7), S.F. (8).
The Data
|
Week |
Opponent |
Win/ Loss |
Oakland penalties -yards |
Opponent penalties - yards |
|
1 |
Tenn. |
L |
10 - 77 |
8 - 81 |
|
2 |
St. Lou. |
W |
12 - 90 |
8 - 92 |
|
3 |
Az. |
L |
11 - 123 |
7 - 104 |
|
4 |
Hou. |
L |
2 - 23 |
5 - 26 |
|
5 |
StD. |
W |
12 - 85 |
7 - 53 |
|
6 |
S.F. |
L |
8 - 60 |
11 - 143 |
|
7 |
Den. |
W |
10 - 94 |
5 - 64 |
|
8 |
Sea. |
W |
11 - 105 |
7 - 55 |
|
9 |
K.C. |
W |
15 - 140 |
12 - 100 |
|
bye |
|
|
||
|
11 |
Pit. |
L |
7 - 55 |
14 - 163 |
|
12 |
Mia. |
L |
4 - 20 |
5 - 35 |
|
13 |
StD. |
W |
13 - 105 |
3 - 19 |
|
14 |
Jac. |
L |
4 - 25 |
6 - 52 |
|
15 |
Den. |
W |
9 - 84 |
10 - 93 |
|
16 |
Ind. |
L |
10 - 116 |
4 - 42 |
|
17 |
K.C. |
W |
10 - 77 |
5 - 39 |
Discussion:
Oakland played its best football under Cable's erratically invoked "just cut it loose" philosophy and played its very worst when trying not to lose, "playing it safe" and worrying about making mistakes. Cutting it loose may entail more penalties, but the benefits are superior in playing loose than playing uptight. The results of the latter weakness were demonstrated in the sets and soft strategies of the former DC and in refusal, or reluctance, by the QB to throw the ball confidently downfield (until no options remained). Fear of making a mistake is still fear - the mind killer.
Conclusion:
While an effort to reduce penalties is helpful, any undue focus on avoiding mistakes takes the edge off aggressive play. The focus should be first and foremost on making plays, playing hard and dominating the opponent. A focus on penalties is a distraction from Raider-style ball .. which has always included a lot of penalties.
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Unlike previous years,
Holding calls and false start calls did not seem to hurt us as bad. However, if there were any flags that hurt us, they were PASS INTERFERENCE. Adding 15+ yards on any opponents drive hurt us in many games especially the Colts game.
Bottom line is, we can’t give up the deep bomb, but we can’t have 2-3 PI calls that advance the ball into the red zone PER GAME.
In WHOEVER GIVES US THE WIN We Trust
by NFLanalyzerfromhome on Feb 8, 2011 12:19 PM PST reply actions
+1
We’ve vastly improved on not getting called for dumb penalties this past season. The previous seasons before this one drove me crazy! It’s good to see we’re getting better at not shooting outselves in the foot.
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Still, given our bump & run man coverage and our reputation over the years, refs are going to pull their rags on us whether or not
we deserve it. I’m not saying we shouldn’t or can’t cut back on penalties, i.e. the boneheaded ones, but even the offside penalties are often due to player intensity, e.g. Seymour, and that isn’t something we want to dull the edge too much.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"We had to get back to who we are, and that's physical and smash-mouth." - Robert Gallery 12/5/2010
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 8, 2011 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed.
Unless we change our uniform colors, we’re gonna get flagged regardless. I’m much more concerned with the flags on offense, though. Momentum killers. I still don’t like our 3rd and long chances. We just don’t have the personnel it seems to A: Pass block when the defense pins their ears back B: Have a proven possession receiver. I still think Shilly can be that guy. If he can stay on a field.
"I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes!"
by golfswithglock on Feb 9, 2011 4:40 AM PST up reply actions
All true,
but we need to cut down on the stupid penalties, like Defense lined up in the neutral zone and false start penalties. The aggressive penalties are just part of playing hard and I accept them as such. The best penalty of the season was Rolando body slamming Amendola at home, I’ll take that penalty any day. Even Seymours bitch slap of Rothesfatass was worth it. We were not going to win that game anyhow and seeing big fat Ben go down like that was awesome.
JUST DOMINATE BABY !!!
We still had a lot of drive killing penalties by the offensive line and a few times we were still able to put a decent drive together although we still did not get a score out of those drives. The Raiders have been burned by the officials for many years even with other teams we play against get away with them even in front of the refs/umps. Even on defense we get killed with our players being held with no calls made.
Yep...
The ones that have hurt us the most are the dumb ones.false start,holding,illegal formation and my favorit delay of game.can somebody tell me why an NFL team cant get the play called,get to the line and snap the ball in 45 seconds?
The reason the Raiders win the games that the get penalized a lot in is because those penalties are usualy for aggressive play,unnecceary roughness,late hits and such.when they get those kinds of penalties on them they are not only beating the other team physically,but mentally.that WR knows the next time he tries to make a catch in the middle of the field he is going to experience extreme pain.so as long as the yellow hankies keep flying the Raiders keep wining.but please no more delay of game or phantom PI’s/illegal contact calls.
"The time is now"
Hue Jackson
The Delay of game penalty against Arizona was certainly a direct contributer to the loss
I would say in looking at the chart, the games against the Cardinals and Colts were games where the abundance of penalties may have contributed to the loss. Looking at the chart also makes me wonder if there was a increased focus on cutting down penalties going into certain games that we lost that took away from the focus on things that could have contributed to being more competitive. It has always been perplexing that in some games I get to a point where I almost assume a penalty when we made a play.
"I’m back to my first love – the Oakland Raiders and working with the Offensive Line. I’m a Raider for life." -- Steve Wisniewski
Good article
Nice job doing the research. IMO I think we brought the worst out of our opponents in some of the games through retaliation. We smashed quite a few teams physically as someone else elaborated to in a previous post on how following a game against us the performance of said team seemed to be down due to players being out for injury reasons or the were maybe banged up after playing us. I have no problem with penalties it is the shitty procedural ones that eat me alive like delay of game, off side, false fucking start, illegal motion shit holding (when a guy is being lazy rather than saving our QB). I think we could work on those as for PF, face mask, etc I like those it makes them think about us more after. I will take the late hit penalty early in the game on Tom “Sporting my Justin Beiber hair cut” Brady just to let him know we mean business and maybe that will keep him on his toes and rush him a bit. I like the teams of old where we didn’t take shit and laid them out but the procedural penalties we can always work on. Those ones killed more than a few of our O drives and sustained the oppositions drives some games (Ariz, SF I think and a few more).
Who gives a shit, who gives a fuck?
by TheLyleAlzadoPunch on Feb 8, 2011 1:32 PM PST reply actions
Replacing Langston Walker
Means cutting out at least 2 false start penalties a game, and possibly even a holding call as well.
ive
talked to this about my father also. This is raiders football. Flags happen on D, but the ones that cant happen are the ones on OFF. I think the D flags are what get the raiders Amped up, I wouldnt care for them to continue, but the league will always throw the ghost penalties like in the Indy game on routt.
True about the Ghost Penalties...I would add the Ghost Calls that took points off the board...
We saw several of these as well…And the amount of penalty n yds don’t tell the whole story…It’s when they’re called and what effect it has on the game at the time…3rd quarter seemed to be the worst momentum killer this season…They give something back when it no longer matters….
The "Zebra"s play “Addition by Subtraction”…They take something away from us and give something to the opposition,,,Points included…
raider penalties
I like this story it really tells it like it is. RAIDER BALL is all about dominance both on the O & D line and sometimes that will get a FLAG! But remember that throughout Raider history we have been flagged for calls that we did absolutely nothing and after review still the call stands, Want proof look no further than this past season. That said the most frustrating penalty for the raiders are the false start penalties it all comes down to discipline and holding your stance, reduce false start penalties in 1/2 and you reduce your total penalties by 75%
IMO, our penalties were due to the over-aggressive play from the team
something that the team preached was controlled chaos and not so much incompetence. last season’s team was a very emotional team. hopefully we can bring the same intensity this season.
"There comes a point an a mans life, he has to step up… I dont care what kind of man you are!!! there come’s a point where he has to fight!!! He has to has that in ’em! He gotta have that in ’em… Lets go, LETS GO!!! FIGHT on 3… 1-2-3- FIGHT!!!! -Richard Seymour
Now if only the Raiders can continue to play aggressively and not get penalized.
A penalty is a penalty no matter how you look at it. I guess the Raiders will stop being penalized only in my dreams. I can’t foresee positive logic coming out of committing penalties. With all the coaching changes, I hope they make it a priority to stop the penalties.
Some of them were,
and we can live with those. The False starts and the Defense lined up in the neutral zone are stupid, same goes for delay of game penalties. Those are the kinds of penalties we need to eliminate. The rest, including shitty call by the refs, are part of the game. In Raiders games both teams are penalized more than in any other teams games, that is to say, the refs watch everything closer in a Raider game because it is a Raiders game. It’s bullshit, but that is the way it is.
JUST DOMINATE BABY !!!
There are good penalties and there are bad ones
‘Good penalties’, IMO, are the ones that come from playing aggressively, although they generally cost more yardage; roughing the passer, unnecessary roughness, some PI, some late hits. ‘Bad ones’ are the mental mistakes that show that a player isn’t paying enough attention to detail; offsides, false starts, holding, illegal formation, etc.
I can live with aggressive penalties, but we have had so many stupid penalties for so long that it is almost a given that they will continue for some time.
Given that we have been in the top 3 for penalties annually for about the last 25 years, it is clear that penalties themselves are not the culprit. What we have been missing for some time is aggressive penalties, and been left instead with just plain dumb ones…
Failure builds character; success reveals it
It's Never been the Amount......
that looses games for us, but the crucial timing, whether it’s on either side of the ball !!! Some jutisfied, MOST NOT !!! We all know when the ghost penalties appear !!! Most are in close games, when we are winning by 6 or less, while on Defense, or loosing by 3 or less while on Offense. Along with the more present NO CALLs going against us, they always pop up at a CRUCIAL TIME !!!!
The penalties come with lack of an intimidating presence on the sideline to restore order.
The NFL doesn’t think highly enough of the Raiders’ head coaches mostly due to Al’s already low opinion of them they will call whatever they want without justification. Also I’ll take the PI calls as they come with physical man to man. At least the DB didn’t get beat for a long TD and was involved in the play. The only ones that bug me are the obviously bad calls which were limited IMO last year. The most blatant I can think of was the illegal motion that never happened that called back a Zach Miller TD which would have given us 45+ points instead of a Jason Campbell drive-killing interception the following play against the Broncos.
Trust No One
Studies show stress can kill you, but don't worry about it.
IMO
I think that penalties certainly hurt a team, but I dont think that its something that teams generally cant overcome. They’re are definitely not as bad as losing the turnover battle or simply having less talented players.
I would also attribute some of our penalty issues to our defensive scheme. Playing that much man coverage, it’s inevitable that the raiders will get called for more PIs and defensive holdings than most teams. Nature of the scheme.
Finally, you have to look at the fact that the raiders have a reputation for drawing penalties. Refs are just going to be looking harder for infractions.
Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!!
I'm just saying.....
One final thought on Raider penalties, during this past 2010 season in wk #9 the talking heads criticized the Raiders on winning the game with as many penalties (140) as we had and the other team should have capitalized. Two weeks later #11 those same talking heads again criticized the Raiders for not capitalizing on their opponents penalties(163) and win the game. Neither of those two weeks did those talking heads mention that the Raiders #9 opponent had (100) penalty yards, and nothing was mentioned about #11 opponent ringing up (163) while the Raiders went out with (55) NO we just hear about how the #11 opponent dominated the Raiders. In ending I just want to say that when it comes to the talking heads talking about Raider penalties you get what you pay for….I’m just saying
When we win most pundits are barely tolerable; we know how bad it gets when we lose
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"We had to get back to who we are, and that's physical and smash-mouth." - Robert Gallery 12/5/2010
by Sons-of-Blanda on Feb 9, 2011 5:24 PM PST up reply actions
penalties
penalties are a factor , but i believe the main thing is the turnovers. if you don’t turn the ball over you have a great chance in winning………………..






























