Point of Attack: Why Satele is a Good Center
by KA1Z3R on Mar 13, 2011 7:48 AM PST
Email
Print"We need a new center."
"Trade up for Wisniewski."
"Satele is garbage."
"Center is our biggest weakness."
Quotes like these have been flying left and right through Raider Nation about center Samson Satele. The Raiders acquired Satele from Miami in 09. I'm baffled as to why people are bashing Samson. He's a far better center than what people are giving him credit for. After the jump, I state my case for Satele as the starting center whenever football starts again.
Sarele started only twelve games in 09 despite being healthy as Chris Morris was starting over him early on. From there they frequently rotated in and out in what was a tumultuous season for Satele. However, he did get better as the year went on as he became more acclimated to both scheme and linemates.
A rough year for sure as the Raiders stumbled to another 5-11 record. However, I still held faith in Satele. As he improved over the course of the year, so too did the stale running game of the 09 season. Satele went from bad to average, and that difference alone had the Raiders look like they were improving as the year finished. The talks of replacing Satele started intensifying in the offseason, but needs at offensive tackle and linebacker had the movement made a secondary concern.
Obviously, Satele stayed on board to the dismay of many, but the delight of myself.
The 2010 season finally came around, as did a change to the line scheme. With Hue Jackson instilled at offensive coordinator, he brought over from Baltimore the visions of tough gritty power blocking. The idea of mixing the zone blocking scheme and the power scheme, along with a healthy Darren McFadden, had visions of 100+ rushing yard performances dancing in the heads of many.
However, questions still remained. Would the line be suited for power blocking? Is this just a gimmick experiment? Can Satele perform in the power blocking scheme?
The Raiders made sure that fans and opponents alike knew what was coming. A tough running team that would drive right in the middle a drive forward, a handful of yards at a time, until you were worn down to be crushed by a quick outside run or big screen or pass play.
Thus, Satele was given two very important duties. To spearhead the rushing attack by powering forward a gap in the middle for the backs and lead blockers to explode through; and to pull out to lead the blocking charge on the Raiders countless screen passes.
The season started slow, as did Satele. But the Raiders quickly established themselves as a dominant running team. Who was at the point of attack where most of the runs were going? Samson Satele.
The season went on and the Raiders were looking like a potential playoff team, flourishing on a juggernaut rushing game and those dynamic screens to Darren McFadden and Marcel Reece. Satele again was right there leading the charge on several runs. While these weren't the big outside runs, he was there on the runs that set up the big plays. our yards up the middle, three between the guard and center, a five yard screen with a center lead block, four yards between guard and tackle, the defense is on their heels and breathing hard under the attrition of the Raiders running game. Then, BAM! McFadden stretch outside to the left for twenty yards and the Raiders are in field goal range at the very least.
This was the flow and rhythm of the Raiders offense through the course of a very successful 8-8 season in which the Raiders had the second best ground game in the NFL, tenth in yards per game, and sixth in points per game. Now obviously, Samson Satele is not the only reason for this startling success. Jared Veldheer and Jacoby Ford became two of the team's best players in only their rookie years, Reece became one of the premiere playmakers in the NFL at the FULLBACK position, McFadden finally lived up to his hype, and Campbell gave Oakland a winning quarterback,
However, Satele goes under the radar amidst all of the amazing turnaround of the Raiders offense. Samson Satele more than held his own. He dominated the rushing game, especially as the power blocking plays started to be called more and more. He held his own in pass protection, I mean how many times did you hear a DT get a sack? Sacks mostly came from the defensive ends or blitz backers beating the out of place Langston Walker or still acclimating rookie Jared Veldheer. Satele wasn't Pro Bowl caliber in pass protection, but it's hard to be when you have to work with Cooper Carlisle and the now departed and inconsistent Robert Gallery.
2010 alone is enough reason for Satele to stay the starter, but let's look at why Satele will be even better next year.
Hue Jackson is the new head coach, and he brings with him a new offensive line regime. The dynamic duo of O-Line wizard Bob Wylie and O-Line legend Steve Wisniewski combined with a predominantly power blocking scheme, and Samson Satele is already in position to excel. Satele did better in the power blocking plays from last year, and now he's getting to run those all game? And now he's getting better coaching in the scheme? In the words of Bart Scott, can't wait.
Satele may also be getting better linemates. The inconsistent Robert Gallery is out, and Bruce Campbell or Langston Walker is expected to move over to RG. Campbell and Walker are both big enough and strong enough, with high enough motors to flourish power blocking from RG, whereas Cooper Carlisle would be hurting more than helping. Plus, thoughts of Marcus Cannon or some large-and-in-charge guard coming on the left side and strengthening the middle of the line gives Satele even better support if he ever needs it.
Samson Satele more than proved himself worthy last year. I'd go as far as to put him in the upper half of centers in the NFL. And now that he's got the momentum of a great 2010 campaign behind him, and new coaches and players around him, with a scheme in place that he flourishes in, Samson Satele is poised to dominate and silence the doubters.
Watch these highlights of Darren McFadden and look at the middle of the O-Line on some of these plays where #64 and his crazy hair are. He's either springing the run, or keeping someone from stopping the run short. And these are mostly big plays, you'll usually see Satele show up more on those tough critical four or five yard runs mentioned earlier.
Darren McFadden - 2010-11 Season Highlights (HD) (via jclillehei12)
Darren Mcfadden 2010 Highlights (via raidernation212092)
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I don't see it
On the McFadden highlight tape, I see him consistently getting pushed into the backfield and stood up an the LOS. There are plays in which he gets downfield, but those are designed where he slips a DL to do so, and he misses the next level block; there are also plays in which he gets a push, but those are more often when he has help from a guard. I can break down those plays, but I just don’t see a C that is big or strong enough to play in the scheme.
I am not knocking his heart or desire, but I simply don’t see the physical attributes that are being demanded at the position.
He can flourish in a system that is more ZBS, but as we move away from that, he is not a particularly good fit.
Failure builds character; success reveals it
Agreed on many points, especially that that wasn’t the best film. But you never see the film of the 4 or 5 yards where he’s pushing forward. Some plays I saw throughout the year I saw that he would get pushed back, but he pushed the defender off to the side to open a hole. I believe there’s one play that shows this on the first video, I think a goal line run.
Satele does not flourish in ZBS. He got better and better as we ran more power plays, very noticeable week 17 versus Kansas City.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
Good, but not at all great.
He deserves a spot, but I hold out hopes a bigger, more well-suited power blocker will come in. We need depth at the position.
I’ve always felt Groves was the better of the two, and largely looked for Satele to step up having received a ringing endorsement from double zero. I felt he has yet to show he can be dominant.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
what he said
I don’t see it On the McFadden highlight tape, I see him consistently getting pushed into the backfield and stood up an the LOS. There are plays in which he gets down field, but those are designed where he slips a DL to do so, and he misses the next level block; there are also plays in which he gets a push, but those are more often when he has help from a guard. I can break down those plays, but I just don’t see a C that is big or strong enough to play in the scheme.
I am not knocking his heart or desire, but I simply don’t see the physical attributes that are being demanded at the position.
He can flourish in a system that is more ZBS, but as we move away from that, he is not a particularly good fit.
There ar many times that he had a clear sot at blocking the guy at the next level,but he was to bussie watching DMC run that he either missed the block or dident get there in time.DMC got the TD,but no thanks to Satele.
"The time is now"
Hue Jackson
not the best film admittedly, but it’s impossible to find video of a four yard run, or a five yard run. But he consistently was shoving and pushing forward holes right in the middle.
We were the #2 rushing offense primarily running up the middle, Satele obviously had a positive impact in that department. Don’t take too much from the film, his biggest successes weren’t big plays, but the runs that set up the big plays.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
We won't be terrible with Satele, but
we won’t be a great line with him at center in a power blocking scheme. I wouldn’t mind seeing Satele moved to guard and he is a good player to provide depth at center, but we need a dominator/nasty SOB/bully as an upgrade at the center position. We need the center version of a cross between Richard Seymour and Lamar Houston.
Your team is your child...You love it no matter what.
I’d like this move, especially on runs where the guard pulls as he was dominant pulling on screen passes. Satele at LG would be a good move, but I think we’re just fine with him at center.
We have to remember this, and this is overlooked, he’s only been in the league four years. He’s played in three different schemes for what will be his third different O-Line coaching set up. Through all of this (and poor help at guard), he still was right there in the middle, blocking for the #2 rushing offense and holding his own in pass protection.
There’s not a need at center in Oakland. OLB, OG/OT, and the secondary need the work much sooner than center does. There’s at least twenty players in the draft I would take with our four picks in rounds 2-4. I’d probably still be looking at DE depth come round five and by that point the quest for center would be futile.
However that’s my opinion. Let’s look at facts. Satele has gone through so much coaching and scheme inconsistencies, but was still a good center. He’s still young, still developing, and still has the potential to be a great center.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
OK but
we have no depth at center and we don’t need to see Veldheer leaving his LT position every time Satele get injured. I’m not demanding that we “draft” a center, because an FA would be fine as well, but we darn well need a starting quality center, not a scrub, however he is acquired.
Your team is your child...You love it no matter what.
by TheRaiderWay on Mar 13, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
this I wholeheartedly agree on, I just don’t think wasting a high pick or getting a FA to replace Satele is really a need or smart move with other bigger weaknesses. Depth though is needed
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
Center in the later rounds is not futile...
O’Dowd is currently projected as a third or fouth-rounder, Kirkpatrick as a fifth, and Zane Taylor of Utah as a sixth. Sometimes people place too much emphasis on the early rounds; we have taken a number of good players later, and have a history of doing so.
Failure builds character; success reveals it
agreed, but I’ve noticed that it’s harder to get quality O-Linemen later on, though not impossible. Though that late, I’m looking for a blocking fullback, blocking tight end, or defensive end depth.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
You're missing the point...
Center isn’t our greatest need. With Gallery out the door and ROG not a sure spot, Wisniewski would be an ideal fit a either guard spot. Jared Veldheer is clearly our starting LT but after that, the most secure position would have to be Satele at Center. Both Guard positions and RT is in need. I’m hoping Bruce Campbell can shore up the RG position in his 2nd season and we’re able to get a veteran RT.
Now Wisniewski at guard is something I can get on board with, and I agree with you. But Wis to replace Satele at center is a bad idea. Satele needs to be a starter on this line, whether at guard or center. He’s a good lineman who could end up a great one for this team. I’m just saying that center isn’t really a need, Satele is a good O-Lineman, and that he should be starting on this team.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
I would Draft Wisniewski
to make SURE that Veldheer stays at LT. Just for that.. THAT BEING SAID, IF there is an OG rated better than him, I would he fine with that as well. Overall, We need depth at all of our positions on the Line..ALL of them.
In WHOEVER GIVES US THE WIN We Trust
by NFLanalyzerfromhome on Mar 13, 2011 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
LG and ROT are what this line most needs. Langston or BC are massive enough to play RG. Loper is big enough
but is he agile enough for LG?? Our system (and the films demonstrate this) shifts right most of the time and pulls the LG. LG is crucial, at least the way we operated last season. So for the offense, I’d put RT then LG as our two top priorities.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 13, 2011 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
which is why I could see and be happy with a possible Satele to LG move with Wis possibly at center (though he probably gets taken in the first). If Satele can shift from center to block on a screen, he can be great at pulling on power runs from the LG spot.
RG isn’t really a weakness, we just need to wise up and put the right guy in at the spot. Langston Walker. He dominated in 09 when filling in at guard. He’s hopeless against speed rushers on the outside. But a 365 guard is invaluable when facing a 3-4 division. Those NT’s and big DE’s are going to be pushed back 4 yards from the snap.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
Satale to Guard would be a great move !!!
Satale has one flaw, playing the center position !!!! That DAMN head bobbing is a bad habit he picked up somewhere, and if the defense pays attn., he gives up the snap count, when he does it. 2 seconds after the last headbobb, he snaps the ball. I watched and timed it all year !!! Other than that, Satale WAS the key to getting the running game going, especially on those POWER pulling plays. He gets out there, and goes at it !!! The runs later in the year, you saw LB’s dodging him, rather than taking him on, to the point he could handcheck them out of the way, and keep on motoring downfield looking to kill a DB !!! If we did pickup a center, that could take over, I could see Satale moving to either guard postion, putting on maybe 10 to 15 lbs, and still keeping his quickness to pull !!!
agreed, he moves as quick as a 4-3 linebacker out there
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
good getting to the second level
and he’s always looking downfield for the next target. something to be said for this guard thing for him.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
agreed, having him at LG could be a very promising move with maybe Langston Walker or Bruce Campbell at RG, a possible Marcus Cannon at RT, and then maybe Kirkpatrick or O’ Dowd at center. That would be one heck of an O-Line. And if O’ Dowd/Kirk struggle, we can very easily just move Satele back to center and bring up either Loper or whoever isn’t RG between Campbell and Walker.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
Cannon isn't a tackle.
He’s not athletic enough. He’s a guard and a hell of one.
No one likes us,
No one likes us,
We're the Raiders and we don't care...
"Darth Vader is a punk compared to Al Davis." - Hunter S Thompson
In Soviet Russia, Mozgov dunk on YOU.
My name is Al Harrington. I do not get buckets.
oh yeah you’re right, sorry been reading all these people putting RG/RT and got confused. I don’t know, personally I’d like the O-Line to have Bruce Campbell at RT. He’s definitely quick enough and athletic enough. And with that size and strength, he could be a perfect fit.
O-Line:
LT: Veldheer
LG: Satele
C: Kirkpatrick/O’Dowd/Wis
RG: Langston Walker
RT: Bruce Campbell
Only one draft pick used on the O-Line though there should be at least one more for depth alone. I think this would be an improved line that could end up a great one.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
You are a smart man.
I’ve been beating the “Campbell at RT” drum as loudly as I can.
No one likes us,
No one likes us,
We're the Raiders and we don't care...
"Darth Vader is a punk compared to Al Davis." - Hunter S Thompson
In Soviet Russia, Mozgov dunk on YOU.
My name is Al Harrington. I do not get buckets.
I just hope Cable is more the reason he got no real starts last year
and possibly having difficulty grasping ZBS, and not just him being worse than any of our other scrubs out there. How could he possibly be worse than super Mario?
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
Who can argue with such deep and reasoned formulations?
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 13, 2011 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Did he really say 'Ewww?'
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Mar 14, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Not I...
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
brilliant. Reasons to back it up?
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
The fact that I, JaggerJaw, gave my commentary regarding Satele is more than enough.
But overall, my eyes don’t lie. I saw his semblance of a ragdoll.
The RaiderLaker
yet he was in the middle of an offense that ranked second in rushing primarily going up the middle. He also led the blocking for our deadly screen passes……oh yeah, he sucks
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
We can be better. Way better. Satele is a no name. He was traded by the Dolphins for crying out loud!!!
We need more strength, athletic ability, and talent.
The RaiderLaker
bigger needs, satele is still young and developing, played well despite going into third different blocking scheme of a five year career, and has proven he can flourish power blocking despite weighing in under 310 pounds. Also showed he can play well against nose tackles
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
I would bet if you look at all of the sacks the RAIDERS
gave up in the last couple of years yuo would see Satele on his back watching the QB go down
No,
Most of them up until this year you would see Mario Henderson scratching his backside wondering what just happened.
by the red guy on Mar 14, 2011 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
most sacks came off the tackles Mario Henderson, Langston Walker, Khalif Barnes, and even Veldheer (though he did very well and is way ahead of where he should be)
I bet if you look at the sack films, you’ll see almost no sacks from up the middle from a DT. if there is, I can guarantee that Carlisle or Gallery is blowing their block or leaving Satele alone on a 320+ DT which you should never do. The center is always given guard help on a 3-4 NT on every team.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
And I'd bet that half our sacks were a combination of good coverage/inability of WRs to get open and QB error.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 14, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
oh god there were so many coverage sacks.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
Way too many. Lot's of folks here have a point in saying a great possession receiver would do wonders
but don’t stop there! By all means, it’s still a shit salad, both on O line, and at wideout really.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
Campbell would flourish with a possession guy other than Miller. He’s lacked that through is career. before anyone says Randle El, he’s really inconsistent and not the receiver he used to be by any means
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
Solid possesion WR would reduce sacks 33-40%
Another bookend at RT would bring it down another 25%. Veldheer’s improvement of 10-20% would result in the same % of sack decreases. That leaves 25-30% on Jason to get the ball out sooner.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 15, 2011 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions
And another element to the offense it's been lacking
A set of wrs to attack secondaries; great teams and the best of qbs over time have all had three guys working together.
Hard to imagine we created the kind of offense we did without that. Awesome to imagine how much we’d have with it.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
its
like brady was with average receivers, and than he got moss and welker.
So if we got really good WRs…. I can only imagine really, provided we have a very good OL.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
formerly patriotguy2 ;)
Yup. Brady has enjoyed a great line most of his career
And made the most of it with good wideouts.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
not really...
they had no name guys like andruzzi and such. when they got mankins, THAN it was VERY good. lol
Neal was very good too when they got him.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
formerly patriotguy2 ;)
Excuse me...?
Neal was an undrafted FA that didn’t even play in college; he was a champion wrestler. He was brought up to speed by good coaching and physical ability; he wasn’t ‘good when they got him’…
Failure builds character; success reveals it
my mistake than.
He was “good” when they decided to start him.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
formerly patriotguy2 ;)
All I know is, Tom enjoys days to do his thing back there
And that’s been almost from the get go; especially compared with the league average.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
Absolutely
The Patriots do it the right way; get players that fit your mold, and either make them into what you need, or plug them in if they already fit.
They don’t see the need to go high for most OL, because they know they can coach them up. A very good position to be in, particularly when drafting towards the back end of every round…
Failure builds character; success reveals it
2 picks in the first four rounds.
I’ll say they are pretty much styling to take whomever they should want, and this might be the one year they trade up for a tackle.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
actually OL is a need right now.
but besides that, all Im saying is is that with a good OL, and competent WRs, you can win superbowls. A good defense is a given.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
formerly patriotguy2 ;)
Satele is fine
but we do need to draft some depth behind him. I’m hoping we get Marcus Cannon with our 48 pick, then pick up his line mate Kirkpatrick in the 5th or 6th round for depth behind Satele. Wiz would be nice if he’s there, but I think we’d be better off with Cannon.
Quick “best case scenario” Mock
2nd – Marcus Cannon, RT/RG. TCU
3rd – Robert Sands, FS. W.Virginia
4th – Mark Herzlich, LB. Boston College
5th – Buster Skrine, CB. Tenn/Chatt
6th – Jake Kirkpatrick, C. TCU
7th – Greg Salas, WR. Hawaii
JUST DOMINATE BABY !!!
I love this. If there were a stronger verb, I'd have used it.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 13, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
would be a great draft
but Skrines draft stock is rising and he is probably not gonna be there in the 5th
by RyanTheRaider on Mar 13, 2011 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
don’t we have another third because of Gallery compensation? If so I gotta go with:
2nd- Marcus Cannon RT/RG TCU
3rd.- Robert Sands S WVU
3rd (Gallery)- whoever is available of Jimmy Smith (CB Colorado), Aaron Williams/Curtis Brown (CB Texas), Davon House (CB New Mexico State), Brandon Burtin (CB Utah)
4th.- Mark Herzlich OLB Boston College
5th.- Lee Smith TE Marshall (He’s 6-6 266)
6th.- Henry Hynoski FB Pitt (6-2 260)
7th. Greg Salas, WR Hawaii or TJ Yates, QB North Carolina or Scott Tolzien, QB Wisconsin
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
it depends on free agency
whickh looks like will happen after the draft, which means if we did get one it would be for the 2012 draft.
by RyanTheRaider on Mar 13, 2011 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Compesation pick are rewarded
if we lose more free agents than we sign. So if someone else signs gallery, we’ll most likely receive a 3rd or a 4th.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
formerly patriotguy2 ;)
the compensatory pick would be for next years draft ( 2012 )
and Gallery probably wouldn’t fetch a 3rd pick anyway
JUST DOMINATE BABY !!!
very, very nice, but like they said
a couple might be gone, but this is a nice best case
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
Since we don't know what is
actually going to happen. I tend to look on the bright side. Why not?
JUST DOMINATE BABY !!!
True that. I'm leaning towards that myself
And throw out the lockout, n all indicators point to this being another great draft.
Especially if it happens before free agency, since Al knows who he’ll target long before any of this, and he stands almost alone having navigated it before in his personnel position.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
Satele is ok.
In a “league average” sort of way. With the switch to a power blocking scheme, I would be MUCH happier with a monster in the middle like Kirkpatrick. Satele is in a position where he needs a decent backup anyway, let him compete with Kirkpatrick for playing time.
Refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death
Satele has shown he does better in the power scheme (dominated week 17 against KC when we ran almost entirely power), than in the zone. His best season his rookie year in Miami they ran power, but started shifting to zone his second year in which he struggled.
He needs a backup yes, but I’d rather not use a draft pick on it. I’d prefer just getting a free agent. Still more pressing needs.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
He needs a backup yes, but I’d rather not use a draft pick on it.
Isn’t Jake Grove still available?
"May the wind be at our back, here comes the Silver and Black "
I believe so and the team almost signed him last year
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
Big possibility there, I s'pose
especially going back to power blocking. We’d lose the compensatory for Gallery bringing him back, but it would be well worth it.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
I voted good.
Because that’s what he is, and I’m happy with that as long as he fits in Hue’s power blocking scheme. If we were to pick up another C, I don’t want Baby Wiz because he is a very similar player to Satele. I’d rather we went after a mauler like O’Dowd from USC or the guy from Syracuse who put up mad Combine stats.
No one likes us,
No one likes us,
We're the Raiders and we don't care...
"Darth Vader is a punk compared to Al Davis." - Hunter S Thompson
In Soviet Russia, Mozgov dunk on YOU.
Satele will do for now
We have other pressing issues at the moment, but an upgrade can be made in the future. The guy has improved, and I think he should be given another year to see what he can do in a different scheme.
"We can't stop here... This is bat country."
I think he is reasonably solid
but I think we could do better.
If Lil Wizzy is available we should take him otherwise we could do worse than another year of Satele
S&BP - I know absolutely nothing about this guy but if he is fast I say sign him up. S&BP - No Love cos the Raiders only break hearts, crush dreams, fracture parts
P&T - That's what She-Will Said.
I think Satele is a capable center. Not to awesome, but not horrible either.
If we want to draft Wiz, which is perfectly realistic now, since I think his stock dropped a bit due to tohers rising, than I think we can have campbell at LG, Wiz at C, and Satele at RG.
We can draft Marcus Gilbert in the 3rd, and we should be golden.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
formerly patriotguy2 ;)
thats if we want to still draft a good tackle.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
formerly patriotguy2 ;)
Satele isn't big enough for RG (his quickness and attitude make him barely large enough for Center).
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 14, 2011 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
he's a little small, but not too much.
he’s about 10 lbs away from guard size really, and even some guards are around 6-3 305 lbs(satele is 6-3 300 lbs).
at least when I look at this: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2011_OG
but even so, you may be correct. best to not take the chance.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
formerly patriotguy2 ;)
RG is the primary run side so you need a big RG like Campbell or Walker. Now Satele at LG would work. Since we’re going to be using power runs to right side with the LG pulling over, Satele’s quickness makes him perfect for the LG spot.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
that actually sounds pretty good
I would much prefer Satele at LG than Loper if it comes to that (but I don’t think it will)
S&BP - I know absolutely nothing about this guy but if he is fast I say sign him up.
S&BP - No Love cos the Raiders only break hearts, crush dreams, fracture parts.
P&T - That's what She-Will Said.
Same here, but Loper is incredible depth for us
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
+1
Great depth. But that he’s starting speaks volumes about the state of our line.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
Gallery
actually looked very good in video. LG will be hard to replace as Veldheer leaned heavily on him. Satele got upfield several times but doesn’t dominate at the line of scrimmage. He’s good, serviceable, and dependable but will never be great. I’m fine with that as he could bring leadership. If we have a chance of drafting Wis, we take the kid no question. Premium legacy players are must have; would be nice to trade for Howie Long’s son but that’s a different story. I would rather see if Wis can play LG.
LT Veld
LG Wis
C Satele
RG B Campbell (must win that spot)
RT Free agent vet pick up
Gallery=good-great run blocker but inconsistent in pass protection. I agree to an extent on your Satele assessment. His job is to get upfield and block a linebacker, Reece/other FB blocks nearest other LB, McFadden is free to run on the secondary. Satele does his job very well, just need better guard play to keep the DT’s/DE (in 3-4) from closing the lane Satele bursts open. Satele is great at what is job in the scheme will be. Pulling to block on screens, and getting up field on the linebacker.
I love your O-Line setup if Wis is drafted, and Wis and Satele could interchange if necessary. Though I think Campbell could be dominant at RT with Langston Walker moving to RG where he can be dominate. Two guards dominating the line while Satele bursts to the second level, blocking a linebacker with the fullback still unengaged and McFadden already three to four yards upfield.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
in the 3rd-4th round
we can draft marcus gilbert. RT, 6-6 330 lbs.
Profile: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1114672
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
formerly patriotguy2 ;)
And that senior bowl performance will have him falling
So much research and evaluation of tape happens now until the draft that this is where the significant movement from initial projections happen. With the lockout, there will be less transparency as to what team is doing where and what the buzz is on what types of guys they’re looking at.
It’s why I don’t mess with mocks this early. Remember last year about this time? Even our own evaluations and desires changed prettty dramatically.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
not really. most of us had mcclain or that OT or the center for Pitt (forgot both their names).
I think we expected to have Bruce Campbell as well.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
formerly patriotguy2 ;)
I also am looking at Joesph Barksdale. RT LSU 6-5 325. Moves better and plays in a scheme incredibly similar to our’s
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
Barksdale is an LT, not an RT.
He’s pretty athletic and has good pass blocking technique, but doesn’t have the strength to maul against the run.
No one likes us,
No one likes us,
We're the Raiders and we don't care...
"Darth Vader is a punk compared to Al Davis." - Hunter S Thompson
In Soviet Russia, Mozgov dunk on YOU.
My name is Al Harrington. I do not get buckets.
from what I saw of him, he’s a great in the run. I mean that’s all LSU could do last year, and they did it well and in all directions. He never looked to me like he was bad in the run blocking department.
Though of course I’d rather Bruce Campbell just take the RT job.
The Sunkist Kaiser, most epic thing since the Grizzly BLAAAAAAAIR! Relax, play, and drink Sunkist! Your Kaiser commands it.
Barksdale grew up in Detroit, so I'm not too concerned about his work ethic dropping off in proportion to his salary
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 15, 2011 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Gotta get over your bias of Southerners, SoB.
Sure, we had the fat bastard, but Death Ro’s also from the Deep South and no one’s questioned his commitment in his year with us.
No one likes us,
No one likes us,
We're the Raiders and we don't care...
"Darth Vader is a punk compared to Al Davis." - Hunter S Thompson
In Soviet Russia, Mozgov dunk on YOU.
My name is Al Harrington. I do not get buckets.
It will take time and contravailing evidence. I wasn't always biased until I saw the disturbing pattern.
Ro is moving in the right direction but still on probation.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Mar 16, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with blanda to an extent.
Death Ro was a rookie last year, and I hope to see some improvement from him next season because i think he performed JUST above average, but he still made mistakes.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
formerly patriotguy2 ;)
Ro's work ethic
is not an issue. The only signal that disturbed me last year was his statement in training camp that SEC is as fast as NFL. I think that he went into a clamp down after with the press. That statement in my mind illustrated that he slightly under estimated the complexities of the NFL and how team constantly adjust week to week and half to half. Just playing as a rookie as a MLB and being “JUST above average” is a significant achievement. I’m confidant that he will have a productive year. He was very prepared but the game was simply too fast at times which is expected.
by raiders4liffe on Mar 17, 2011 3:43 AM PDT up reply actions
when I said JUST above average
I was thinking that Ro played like we hoped he would play. Not exactly a top 10 MLB, but a top 15. Top 15 guys, for what they are supposed to play at, is JUST above average imo.
But I agree with what you say. He played good for a rookie mlb in the nfl. I have no doubt he can get better, but I’d like to reserve judgement on that, and see it.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
formerly patriotguy2 ;)
just wanted to highlight
that for rookies to step in as MLB from day 1, it’s an achievement. Some like Matt Millen, Jack Lambert do it effortlessly but the majority earn the spot over a couple of years. I’ll be very disappointed if he doesn’t improve.
by raiders4liffe on Mar 17, 2011 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
we're young,
with both Veld (great rookie year, again when Gallery was riding next to him) and now Bruce Campbell. In my mind, Wis is a must pick if still available. That makes 3 starting OL with combine of 1 pro starting year experience. Hence, we absolutely need veteran RT who can guide and handle pressure. Unless we jump up in the draft to pick up a top 15 pick, I would rather not draft a project Tackle in the 3rd/4th round without a starting free agent tackle in hand.
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