SB Nation Bay Area Editor's Pick
Brief assessment of Raiders' last four drafts
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 12, 2011 3:26 PM PDT
Email
PrintLegend:
BLACK is Good
RED is Bad
YELLOW is Fair
_____________________________________________
2010
1. Rolando McClain, LB, Alabama....... .BLACK
2. Lamarr Houston, DT, Texas............... BLACK
3. Jared Veldheer, T, Hillsdale...............BLACK
4a. Bruce Campbell, T, Maryland..........RED
4b. Jacoby Ford, WR, Clemson.............BLACK
5. Walter McFadden, CB, Auburn......... RED
6. Travis Goethel, LB, Arizona State......BLACK
7a. Jeremy Ware, CB, Michigan State...YELLOW
7b. Stevie Brown, S, Michigan .............YELLOW
Oakland went 5-2-2
_______________________________________________
2009
1. Darrius "-", WR, Maryland ...................... RED
2. Mike Mitchell, S, Ohio University.............BLACK
3. Matt Shaughnessy, DE Wisconsin........ BLACK
4a. Louis Murphy, WR, Florida.................. BLACK
4b. Slade Norris, LB, Oregon State............. RED
6a. Stryker Sulak, DE, Missouri ..................RED
6b. Brandon Myers, TE, Iowa.....................BLACK
Oakland went 4-3-0
_____________________________________
2008
1. Darren McFadden, RB, Arkansas ..........BLACK
4a. Tyvon Branch, DB, Connecticut.......... BLACK
4b. Arman Shields, WR, Richmond............RED
6. Trevor Scott, DE, Buffalo.......................BLACK
7. Chaz Schilens, WR, San Diego State....YELLOW
Oakland went 3-1-1
_______________________________________
2007
1. JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU ........................Kansas City RED
2. Zach Miller, TE, Arizona State........................BLACK
3a. Quentin Moses, DE, Georgia......................RED
3b. Mario Henderson, OL, Florida State...........YELLOW
3c. Johnnie Lee Higgins, WR, UTEP...............YELLOW
4a. Michael Bush, RB, Louisville......................BLACK
4b. John Bowie, CB, Cincinnati.........................RED
5a. Jay Richardson, DE, Ohio State.................BLACK
5b. Eric Frampton, S, Washington State...........RED
6. Oren O'Neal, FB, Arkansas State............. ...YELLOW
7. Jonathan Holland, WR, Louisiana Tech......YELLOW
Oakland went 3-4-4
_______________________________________________
That's 15 successes to 10 failures and 7 ties
Is this about right?
135 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
too early to throw red at campbell and mcfadden of last year
you nailed the rest. I pray DHB breaks out.
by DarknBlack on Apr 12, 2011 4:19 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
+1 more
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
Campell was a developmental project with awesome physical ability , i dont think its really fair to pass judgement yet i think hell be pretty good in the next year or two , fair assesment but it think the jury's still out on a few of the guys
remember in the 1st you shop for stars , in the 2nd you shop for starters , in the 3rd and beyond the kids have ability but need to be developed , have patience , i think 2 or three of your red players may still suprise you
FAIR ASSESMENT, with Campbell being the EXCEPTION !!!
Have to agree with DarknBlack about Campbell, but Mcfadden I just can’t comment on. Was hurt, and then thrown into the fire too soon, when he was somewhat healthy.
I hope you're both right. Never was in favor of drafting BC and his play in STs didn't change my mind. He'll be given his chance
and it better be G (not T) or we’ll be seeing Bruce or Kyle soon after.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 12, 2011 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
SOB....Russell needs his own color code...PURPLE
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Apr 12, 2011 5:56 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
God damn it.
I thought of this myself.
The autumn wind is a Raider,
Pillaging just for fun,
He'll knock you round and upside down
And laugh when he's conquered and won.
Team MozGOD bitchez.
Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/#!/_SLS_
Better me than Al's Wingman....
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Apr 13, 2011 6:02 AM PDT up reply actions
True.
But Al’s Wingman wouldn’t have the brains to come up with it in the first place.
The autumn wind is a Raider,
Pillaging just for fun,
He'll knock you round and upside down
And laugh when he's conquered and won.
Team MozGOD bitchez.
Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/#!/_SLS_
Awesome!
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
The 2nd and 4th Rounds have been the best for us over the short haul 4 years.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
although, the 4th is bitter sweet. Our 2nd Round is the Gold Standard
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 12, 2011 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you are being too hard on the sixth and seventh rounders
It is impressive when they just make the team. I’d say any sixth or seventh rounder that makes it on the field in the regular season is worthy of black status.
Drunk by noon, but that's okay--I'll be president someday.
I was going to state that by virtue of where guys were picked, they need a more fair judgment
Or a color for, the jury is still out.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
Of the 9 Players picked in the last four rounds 6 and 7 only 1 didn't get either a BLACK or YELLOW assessment
3 BLACKs, 5 YELLOWS 1 RED
Okay, you’re a Styker Sulak fan. I’m sorry …
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 12, 2011 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions
No, it's too much yellow.
Chaz is frustrating, but only because of potential. He has already gone on to have a better career than a seventh round pick should.
And yellow for Ware and Brown? Even Hollan and O’Neal deserve black. I think. I mean like I said seventh rounders succeed just by making it on to the field.
And Stryker should get a yellow just for his name.
Drunk by noon, but that's okay--I'll be president someday.
by Rich Langford on Apr 12, 2011 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Right? You'd think it would make him a great football player
Someone forgot to tell him, I guess.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
You ever watch Gladiator movies?
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 12, 2011 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
What? I don't speak jive
Drunk by noon, but that's okay--I'll be president someday.
by Rich Langford on Apr 12, 2011 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions
No, they would be expecting that
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 13, 2011 6:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Only one I'd disagree on is Campbell.
I’d give him a yellow or incomplete at this stage.
The autumn wind is a Raider,
Pillaging just for fun,
He'll knock you round and upside down
And laugh when he's conquered and won.
Team MozGOD bitchez.
Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/#!/_SLS_
This
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Deeds and Results ... not potential, talent, dreams, and wishes, desires, hype and expectations, projections, conjecture and so forth
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 12, 2011 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions
He hasn't shown enough to be worthy of a grade at all.
The autumn wind is a Raider,
Pillaging just for fun,
He'll knock you round and upside down
And laugh when he's conquered and won.
Team MozGOD bitchez.
Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/#!/_SLS_
Yeah thats what my thought is as well.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
I disagree on a few things here.
1) Walter Mcfadden – Yes, he SUCKED in the Miami game, but Ware Sucked in the Bears Pre-season game. And, he’s a rookie. Have to wait, because on that same note, the same would have been said about Nnamdi in his rookie year.
2)Bruce Campbell – We didn’t even see him play yet. VERY unfair – we all know Cable didn’t like his ass, and did not play him. let him get a chance to develop.
3) Heyward-Bey – Red if he sucks this year.
4) JLH, Jonathan Holland on the same level as Jeremy Ware, Stevie Brown, Chaz Schilens, Mario Handerson (put him inside) and Oren O’neal? Strongly disagree.
In WHOEVER GIVES US THE WIN We Trust
by NFLanalyzerfromhome on Apr 12, 2011 7:19 PM PDT reply actions
Overall, other than JLH, Holland, Schilens, and O'neal,
These rookies and 1 year players need to develop before any judgement is posed.
In WHOEVER GIVES US THE WIN We Trust
by NFLanalyzerfromhome on Apr 12, 2011 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Holland was a 7th Round pick we converted (tried anyway) to CB ... and he backed Nnamdi ... and returned some punts
all said, Holland is more YELLOW than RED. I’m motivating Schilens with YELLOW; yes I agree he’s a BLACK when he’s playing … but how often is that? As for O’Neal, he was a 6th rounder who became a starting NFL FB, I do take round drafted into consideration … a little anyway.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 12, 2011 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh just admit you are a draftist
and prejudice against late rounders!
Drunk by noon, but that's okay--I'll be president someday.
by Rich Langford on Apr 12, 2011 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, also disagree with Schilens.
If you can get anything out of a 7th round pick, you gotta take it. Chaz has shown he’s a good receiver when he’s fit.
The autumn wind is a Raider,
Pillaging just for fun,
He'll knock you round and upside down
And laugh when he's conquered and won.
Team MozGOD bitchez.
Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/#!/_SLS_
with a top 8 Pick come expectations
DHB=red, for where we took him.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
If "-" were a 7th, or even a 6th round pick he'd be a solid YELLOW (pale yellow)
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 12, 2011 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions
He'd never get on the field!
Drunk by noon, but that's okay--I'll be president someday.
by Rich Langford on Apr 12, 2011 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Too early for Campbell and McFadden
And I’d put Schilens as Black…when he’s been healthy he’s been a beast and considering he was a 7th Rd. pick who is still on the team and is considered to be one of our best receivers (when healthy)…so yeah, I’d put Schilens as black…and I’d put Russell as HOT HOT HOT Lava Red hahahahaha
Schillens...maybe Orange..mix of yellow & red.
He has shown brilliance on the field when he has been ‘healthy’. But the problem is he is hardly healthy and sadly, like Grads, made of glass. The main point of the blog is what has been left on the table so far…results. I’m sure he has insane potential but you dont realize it when youre brokedick on the sidelines. He could be the greatest guy in the world but if he isnt playing at least 2 or 3 downs for my team in every offensive set, or kicking ass on special teams, then it doesnt really matter.
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Apr 13, 2011 5:50 AM PDT reply actions
Pretty much on point, however, Bruce Campbell and Walter McFadden may need a little more time to develop...
I wouldn’t throw them under the bus yet…Campbell will need to show up this upcoming season, McFadden on the other hand faired pretty well on special teams….The rest I can pretty much agree on…
by Rodney Sacramento on Apr 13, 2011 6:31 AM PDT reply actions
This is a statement of how things now stand
So current non-BLACK Raiders are not (necessarily) always doomed to RED (or remaining YELLOW). Likewise, an active player may lose his BLACK status.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 13, 2011 6:54 AM PDT up reply actions
considering this is a list of what have you done for me lately i would have to say i agree.
Chaz will be a black if he can stay healthy a full year but until then i agree with yellow and Campbell has the chance to become a black but has done absolutely nothing at any time he has been on the field. Mcfadden also will have his chance to prove he deserves black. If this was projections to what they are and will always be id disagree a little more but being as they are for what they have done up until now i cant really disagree on much
by Marcus Allen Krause on Apr 13, 2011 8:52 AM PDT reply actions
JLH
is a yellow light that’s turned red. So Orange is his color for his overall performance, being at one time he was almost decent, now sucks balls and should’ve been cut last year.
JUST DOMINATE BABY !!!
That's a LOT of black for a .500 ball club
If the Raider drafts were truly this effective they would be in competition for not just the AFC West but the AFC period.
I think you are overvaluing the picks by far. A better measuring stick would be, "How many of these guys would have been considered ‘black’ by NE, Indy and GB?
Coaching
has alot to do with how well a team does
by RyanTheRaider on Apr 13, 2011 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree in the shorthand
But talent is the trump card. Look at Asomugha. No amount of sub-par coaching will make him anything other than a HoF.
Oakland has drafted a lot of decent to good players that are excellent role players, but have not been able to create a solid core of young players that have taken the team to the promised land. Bad coaching and poor free agent choices are a factor as well, but the draft is where the team is built.
The best judge of a team’s drafting is not pro-bowls or awards. It’s regular season records. At best, the Raiders have been exactly .500 over the last few years. Give em a solid C.
If there were as many BLACK or Good players drafted as Sons-of-Blanda indicated, the Raiders should be on the cusp or in the playoff every year. He has 7 BLACK players listed for defense alone.
It think the scale is screwy and is a classic example of silver tinted glasses.
Oakland has a great core
of young players mixed in with veterans.We are lacking in few positions as SOB said, which really hurt us.If you dont have a good Oline your not gonna do much passing the ball unless you have a Peyton Manning and a Reggie Wayne.If you dont have OLBs that can tackle and shed blocks, your not gonna do well against the run.The coaching staff up untill this year has been terrible to mediocre, Cable and Marshall would continuously make bad calls or go soft.Who on the list doesnt deserve the label they got?
by RyanTheRaider on Apr 13, 2011 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree that the O-line is an issue, but I just can't buy that all of these drafts have been this successful
You can’t lay this all on the coaches, or refs, or even Al. At some point players have to make plays while taking responsibility for their play and that of their team. Oakland has consistently failed in this area over the last few years.
its not all
on the coaches, but a majority of it is.
by RyanTheRaider on Apr 13, 2011 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
it is on the owner too
because he hires the coaches
by RyanTheRaider on Apr 13, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
What you say about a teams ability to draft may be true, but almost any of those in the black would stand alone on other teams
So the grade on the player doesn’t necessarily project as the grade for the squad.
If you were giving colors on how good those picks were for our team, you’d again have different results, but they would be somewhat similar.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
True, might just be splitting hairs here
But its Wednesday and I’m at work. Would much rather be splitting hairs than doing what I’m supposed to be doing. :)
I completely disagree. You can have great draft picks but if you dont have certain areas your wins and losses wont reflect it.
Look at the major area where there was no Black listed. QB. We hadnt had a real decent QB (other than 3 games by Gradkowski) and that is a huge difference. You cant possibly tell me that the Colts record would be as good as it was without Manning. One player can make all the difference. Couple that with bad coaching decisions and you get a losing record. Thats not on the other individual players that are playing well. Its an individual ranking, not the team. Plus if you count those players its Maybe half the team. The other half would have just as big of an impact on the wins loss column and that is not something that should go against the drafted players that did well. besides i think it does take a 65-35 success ratio on draft picks just to make it to .500. If you look at GB there draft success ratio is closer to 75-25 and even they struggle every other year to reach .500. Since Ted Thompson has been there they have drafted great but are still only a .600 team for wins and losses.
by Marcus Allen Krause on Apr 13, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
In truth, it only takes 2 or 3 weak links on either side of the ball to undermine a team. If Oakland has another draft like next years
and rids itself of the Groves, Huffs, “-”s, Browns, CJs, Higgins, Williams, Carlisles the bleeding will stop and the record will reflect that.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 13, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
The opposite is true as well
A team that is effectively put together through the draft and FA can handle the impact of a few weak links and move beyond them.
The problem here is that any one of the draft picks may even be great in a vacuum. But if they don’t fit in with the overall team are they a good fit or a good pick/
It’s like LA drafting the best shooting guard in college basketball when they already have Colby. Good player, bad pick.
The Raiders have been very…eccentric in how they are put together.
That's why RTR's response to you needs to be taken into account ... along with my own.
Poor coaching and a few weak-links gave us an 8-8 record.
Thank you.
Next question
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 13, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
No, poor management, poor coaching and poor drafting gave Oakland a 22-42 record over the last 4 years
Poor drafting is absolutely a part of that. To look at it any other way is to be blind to the facts.
Are you telling me that the Raiders, while going 22-42 over four years, have managed to hit on over 46% of their draft picks at the same time?!?!?!
A GREAT 7 round draft nets a team 3 ‘BLACK’ players. That’s a 42% success rate. Are you honestly saying that Oakland has been secretly one of the best drafting teams in the NFL over the last 4 years, and its just that no one outside of Oakland has been aware?
Please pass whatever it is that you’re smoking to the left….
not one of the best
you cant be one of the best and miss on 1st rnd picks, but we are one of the bests outside of the 1st.
by RyanTheRaider on Apr 13, 2011 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
You're taking this post beyond its scope - which was to presently evaluate players drafted over past four years
If you’d like to develop something else, I’d suggest your creating a new post. Otherwise, your argument seems weirdly out of place or a red herring leading away to an agenda of your own.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 13, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
No agenda of my own, simply an observation, I am questioning your evaluation
You seem to indicate that there are three levels of players and are lumping them into a single group players like Darren McFadden that could be argued is top 15 at his position and Matt Shaughnessy who is a decent rotational DE that is a great situational player.
My take is that your rating system is not critical enough of the drafting philosophy of Al or of the players selected. IE, it’s not objective.
You asked if I thought this was about right in your post, to which I reply, no, I don’t think it’s about right. I think about half the players listed as BLACK should be listed as Yellow. Especially in light of your reply below to R4L where you argue that draft position and money has nothing to do with the rating a player receives.
I dont get how you can completely disregard not having a good QB and not having good coaching when evaluating this.
They asked you to specify who should be yellow instead of black and you did not respond. To me the only way your argument can be validated is if you go through and rate EVERY teams draft picks individually using the same system. If you did that I do not believe your argument would hold up. If you hit on your first and second round pick every year but strike out on all your other picks, you still have a wide array of playmakers that would make a considerable impact. Our first round selections have been awful, but after that we have been very good. Until you either point out the players on this list that should be rated yellow, with an explanation to why there performance should rate “yellow”, or go through and prove winning teams have a higher percentage of “Black” i do not and will not consider your argument reasonable.
by Marcus Allen Krause on Apr 13, 2011 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Now we get to the crux, I'm not a Raider fan
So I don’t watch the Raiders day in and out. but I also have an objective eye.
The only way, as an outsider, I can evaluate the value of individual players is by the results on the field.. And I must say, as a whole the Raiders organization has been less than “meh” over the last few years. That’s not opinion, that’s verifiable objective fact.
I look at the post and it seems to indicate that the Raiders are an excellent drafting team that has done a bang up job over the last few years.
When I compare that view to the realities of Oakland’s current situation in relation to the rest of the NFL I have to disagree.
I don’t know the players, but I see the results. And the results that the Oakland franchise has managed to obtain do not back up a 46% successful draft rate.
The only teams that have the same type of record that Oakland has had over the last few years are the Browns and the Lions. If either of those sets of fans started talking about how effective their team was at drafting, what would your response be?
That's why four years was chosen as the starting point. With the exceptions of JaPurple and "-"
the past four years have seen a turnaround in our drafting that is more reminiscent of pre-Gruden than 2001-2006
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 13, 2011 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
and 2007 wasn't so good ... an indication of how the prior 6 drafts went for us
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 13, 2011 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
And even as a KC fan, I have to agree
The Raiders have made good progress. From the outside, I felt it was Cable getting his guys to play. He wasn’t the best coach but the Raiders started playing with pride again under him. I hope for the rivalry’s sake that Hue can keep that up. Sucked ass losing twice to Oak this year, but it was a lot more fun to watch the AFC West as a whole when the Raiders were relevant
I would say the Lions have been drafting very well. The Browns have always sucked at drafting though.
The Lions have had very good drafts over the last 3 years. They have rebuilt the team with talented players that are building chemistry. If Stafford could stay healthy they would have had a much better season. Wins and Losses do not always correspond with the success of the draft. It obviously helps but its not even the largest factor in my opinion. What is your opinion of your Chiefs draft?! The Chiefs have drafted very well over the last 3 years too but this was the only year they did anything productive! You dont think you guys have drafted well because just because your overall record over the past 3 years is below .500?
by Marcus Allen Krause on Apr 13, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I will agree the very top teams draft phenomonally but i will not agree losing teams automatically have shitty drafts.
by Marcus Allen Krause on Apr 13, 2011 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I concede the point
And would even give you Arizona as an argument. They’ve drafted well, got them to the Super Bowl. Then they lost their QB and were mis-managed in other areas and fell into the toilet.
Just not sure if the Raiders are in that category. Could be though. Al has had an eye for athletic talent throughout the years, the bastard. :)
KC drafts have been 'meh' as well, last year being the exception
The core of this team was built in 08, but they had 12 picks. I could have hit a number of good players with 12 picks and I’m a drunk fan. They hit on 5 of them.
Carl Peterson drafts kept getting progressively worse and Vermiel compounded the problem by not playing rookies.
Who knows what Herm would have done with the team (probably lost).
Pioli and co had a sub par draft in 09. Wasn’t impressed at all.
10 was flippin outstanding. One more of those and KC can truly contend. We’ll see though.
Throughout KC’s history though I’d have to give them a C- overall. The Peterson regime was good at hitting on key free agents, but not so hot with drafting. For every Jared Allen there was four Tank Tylers
lol 2010 was a great draft for you guys and i like the even a drunken fan can hit when you have that many picks.
Jamall Charles was a huge steal in the 3rd though and I really like Dwayne Bowe, Wish he was a Raider. 09 wasnt that bad of a draft and doesnt your team have over half their starters from people they drafted? thats impressive. Pioli has been great though, your front office before really did have to go.
by Marcus Allen Krause on Apr 13, 2011 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I love me some Charles, but Brandon Carr and Brandon Flowers were the meat of that draft
Charles is awesome to watch. But that turn around was because of the defense last year. And those two CB’s are the main reason why.
Thanks guys for letting me come in here and poke the bear with a stick. :) Have a good night.
"Not a Raiders fan" speaks volumes. Who might you be a fan off?
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Apr 13, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
He-he-he-he
I’m just your local Chiefs fan stirring up shite :) And how are you on this Wednesday afternoon?
MMM Better..I just took a Chief and wiped my KC....
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Apr 13, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Might want to make sure your not bleeding, those Chiefs carry sharp objects
Would hate to have you pop a hemorrhoid. :P
....weak.....
youre the only hemorrhoid here…
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Apr 13, 2011 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Men & Women. Not the douchey wastes of Queef fans.
If you cant handle it, don’t troll. Next time youre bored, go pump the dog for awhile.
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Apr 13, 2011 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you for pointing out an inconsistency in my method vs. philosophy. The method did handicap
players taken in later rounds and was tougher on early round picks, e.g. “-” would be a YELLOW if taken in the 3rd round or later. My philosophy, as stated to R4L (each man evaluated without reference to draft order, previous achievement before coming to Oakland, etc.) was not adequately represented by the method I used in the post … for that I am ashamed and must live with it for the rest of my life.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 13, 2011 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Missing on our first round picks
has cost us more than anything, especially at QB with JaFatass. That goes right to the top. The amount of money that’s essentially wasted when drafting a bust like JaPurpledrinkus and potentially “-” has to be figured into what you can spend on free agents to fill those gaps in the team, not to mention the what if’s. As in what if we’d drafted Calvin Johnson instead of JaWalrus or what if Al actually valued coaches and brought us in a real coach instead of all the jokes and retreads we’ve had to suffer through.
There are many reasons we’ve been down for awhile and they all point straight to Al, hopefully he’s got it turned around, but it takes along time to overcome the mess that the Raiders had become, more than two or three drafts and last year was the start
JUST DOMINATE BABY !!!
I wanted Joe Thomas in '07.
If only…
The autumn wind is a Raider,
Pillaging just for fun,
He'll knock you round and upside down
And laugh when he's conquered and won.
Team MozGOD bitchez.
Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/#!/_SLS_
That's a lot of black & silver up your ass as you went 0-2 against us..
And of course didnt let us down as we all predicted a 1 and out for the Playoffs…
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Apr 13, 2011 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Did you seriously just say that the burn was that KC made the playoffs and were one and done?
KC turn around for a competitive team to bottom feeder to competitive team: 3 years
Oakland turn around from a competitive team to a bottom feeder to a competitive team:…….
Dont fuck off mad, just fuck off.
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Apr 13, 2011 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
good point
8-8 with several blown games and besting your smoke and mirrors organization twice are clearly indicators of a non competitive team
I can’t believe you mongoloids are back posting here again and it’s only april. Isnt your cousinwife due to wake up from hibernation soon? You better go buy the crispy kremes or it’s gonna be PISSED when it wakes up
by lchristmas on Apr 13, 2011 11:11 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
With a Kleenex schedule and any amount of good luck.
The autumn wind is a Raider,
Pillaging just for fun,
He'll knock you round and upside down
And laugh when he's conquered and won.
Team MozGOD bitchez.
Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/#!/_SLS_
Simplistic in that you
have the same standard of achievement regardless of round. The other factor that needs to brought in is cold hard cash. Is the player exceeding his contract? Moreover, any 7th round player who makes the team should be considered black because the pay is very little. DMAC was considered a bust until last year’s break out with half the Nation looking to trade him for anything; has he really outperformed his contract over the last 3 years? I would say not as he needs to back it up this year to compensate for the 1st 2 years.
Poppycock. When one is accepted to University all his former grades and achievements are left behind - the slate is wiped clean
and he must begin again to assert his worth against all others. In the same way, all men on the roster are evaluated not by their prior history or how much money they were paid, but by performance. Man vs Man. It doesn’t matter how you get in but once in the pecking begins to naturally formulate.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 13, 2011 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Poppycock??
Baloney. We gave this guy a full ride and he’s getting outworked, outplayed, and outskilled by this walk-on; the walk-on beat him out, hence, he’s going to play. Cost and opportunity cost are relevant factors when addressing scouting results, particularly over a 3 years course. Top 10 players who do not start are anchors to your team’s development as the sheer amount of money involved (cost), the players who you could have been picked or the free agent that you could have brought in with that cash (opportunity cost) are crucial factors in any scouting assessment. Now, if we’re simply looking at productivity, than you’re absolutely right, it doesn’t matter how you got in the door – practice squad, undrafted, 1st pick, it doesn’t matter. Players play, that’s what they do. So are we judging scouting or productivity?
by raiders4liffe on Apr 14, 2011 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Your distinction between scouting & production is valid. The theme here is productivity with some leeway for draft order
that was harder on early picks and softer on later ones. A pure assessment of drafting judgment would be interesting.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 14, 2011 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Big year for the following:
Bruce Campbell, J Ware, S Brown, Mike Mitchell (show that he’s not just a pre-season sensation), Chaz (can he in fact stay healthy, ever?) and Mario Henderson (I know most have given up on him but he could surprise and in fact play well at RT). They all know what it takes. DHB now needs to put 3 years of success to attempt to validate why we didn’t pick up the most prolific receiver on the board at the time of picking (Crabtree)
by raiders4liffe on Apr 14, 2011 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm with you on Mario. I've seen him play very well for spells and then suffer a lapse that causes disgust and discouragement
But I’m hopeful that Wisniewsky will help Mario keep his head straight, clear and focused because Henderson has all the physical gifts to be a top 16 Tackle if his mind stays engaged in what he’s doing. Maybe Henderson will play some ROT.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 14, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Very interesting points Sons & raiders4life..on one hand do you evaluate based upon draft order in terms of overall worth...
We all know that when drafting a player, with all the scouting reports, workouts, clock times, until you put the pads on and feel the speed of the game and get hit, No one will know the truth…For some players they need more time to develop into the player they were expected to be…Edge James went into Indy and burned it up is rookie year, Marcus Allen same thing for the Raiders..yes McFadden was injured and never got up to full speed, when he did he showed what he could do. We took Mike Bush injured, I though Al was brilliant for that move, and we need to keep that kid. On Henderson, he seems to lack heart, he needs to have a nasty disposition on every play and he can dominate, it is mental for him. When he puts his mind to it, he shuts people down. DHB may be a bust, I hope this youngster is working with someone, he needs to be with Freddie Biletnikoff, he is a great teacher of the position, my cousin played with him in Montreal before he retired, Keith was a converted QB and Freddie made him a All Pro up there. He is a great teacher. I expect the Raiders to do well, but we have GOT to protect Jason Campbell…
by Rodney Sacramento on Apr 15, 2011 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Mario is a gentle soul. But Walter Payton was too and come Sunday was anything but. So, it's a mental thing
Mario did his best when Grad was leading and I think the reason is that Bruce talked directly and often to Mario – keeping him focused. Even on the sidelines, I saw Bruce talking to Henderson. A leader has to know how to get the most out of his teammates. Kenny Stabler was one of the best at doing that.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 15, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I never knew that about Mario, Ogden was a gentle soul too until he strapped his helmet on...
Hopefully, Jason will be more vocal this year, he has a year under his belt now. Peyton Manning talks to his O line all the time especially if he is getting knocked down..And he is screaming at them..lol We may need more of that out of Jason Campbell…
by Rodney Sacramento on Apr 17, 2011 6:26 AM PDT up reply actions
RB
is more of a natural instinct position, hence, why you see so many rookies step in and excel. WR is definitely more about routes and disguise, hence, why it takes a couple of years to have consistency unless you’re all about blazing. OLs and LBs both about techniques and recognition, hence, a couple of years of development. My main point is about draft order and cost. Draft order when you pick a high 1st rounder, he has to be an impact player off the bat because in a cap space era, you can’t have him sit and develop. His salary chokes your ability to bring other players. Our stark example is DHB, we couldn’t even give him away as no one would take on his high salary in a cap era. Quickly back to Mario, what I’m hoping is that he lacked the requisite for LT but somehow can be a productive RT. A player out of position. Gallery was a pro-bowl type LG, when healthy. Problem is picking 4 in a draft, you don’t pick a guard, you pick a LT. Back to Jason, it’s a big year for him as he won’t be able to hide behind “he never had consecutive OC, etc, etc”. The Raiders have a much tougher schedule with expectation of making the playoffs, no matter what (as they should be). The whole Manning screaming at his WR and OL is grandiose BS, the pick wasn’t my fault as I threw in double coverage. Look at me, I’m fiery and I’m doing something about this. No different than TO demanding the damn ball. Bruce couldn’t win squat last year. Leaders have different styles, Marino, Montana, Aikman, were quiet leaders in the locker room or polar opposite to Rivers and Peyton. What all great leaders on both side of the ball have is the respect of the locker room, being incredibly prepared, and oozing with confidence. Also, how many great statistical QBs didn’t have great WRs?
by raiders4liffe on Apr 17, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Marino a quiet leader?
That whiny crybaby? I dont know know how many games you watched with him at the helm, but I watched him since he took over the starting job in Miami in early/mid 80’s and that bitch always looked like he needed a hanky and screamed at his receivers. He may have had respect, but he wasnt a stoic by any reach.
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Apr 19, 2011 5:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Montana and Aikman but but not Marino who was the bipolar opposite of "quiet leader"
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 19, 2011 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions
fine
replace marino with staubach or moon. Point that I’m attempting to make is that different leadership styles work when it’s genuine coupled with respect. I’m saying anything new about leadership. Don’t have to be best of friends but the effort and preparation must be beyond reproach. Whining, bitching, screamer, stoic, happy go lucky – I really don’t care; just bring it on sundays and win the game.
by raiders4liffe on Apr 19, 2011 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions
that would be
not saying anything new..
by raiders4liffe on Apr 19, 2011 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I would keep all scores exactly as is except swap Stevie Brown as a good pick and Mitchell as a fair pick.
Mitchell was placed in all the best positions to make plays all over the field and given a lot of reps that would have fairly gone to somebody else. Stevie Brown makes plays whenever he is on the field. For Mitchell to be a good pick that SUMBITCH better have 5, 5, and 50. sacks, ints, and tackles
Trust No One
Studies show stress can kill you, but don't worry about it.
Was high on Stevie Brown early, then came Jacksonville and reassessment. Mitchell was almost cut by Pumpkinhead
who didn’t give Mitchell as many reps as I thought he should have. I hope they both warrant BLACK in both of our opinions by late September.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 13, 2011 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Where does this "Mitchell was almost cut" have any basis in reality?
And really Mitchell on the field has been meh. We’ll see how he does when he has more reps but he was a reach when he was drafted. Lots of guys hit in college.
Don't shoot, I'm a man.
The reports at the time
stated that “the coaches” were not impressed with Mitchell and wanted to keep Stevie Brown instead and cut Mitchell, but Al stepped in and overruled Cable. Then they cut Brown and then put him on the practice squad, then cut him again and brought him back, and eventually he made it to the team.
As far as reality goes, that was how it was reported. The truth?… who knows with the Raiders.
JUST DOMINATE BABY !!!
How did I miss those reports?
The only time I heard it mentioned was after Al’s press conference evisceration of Cable. You’re right about the truth though, who the hell knows.
That said, Stevie has been much more impressive but you can’t cut an Al pick/reach. Only Al can do that.
Don't shoot, I'm a man.
Why not say simply use good bad fair instead of the color sysytem?
k i s
by rat, el rat, mr. rat, the rat on Apr 14, 2011 9:00 AM PDT reply actions
Id agree that would have been more simple. IF you go with the color route i was wondering why the font for each player wasnt in the color chosen for them.
by Marcus Allen Krause on Apr 14, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Jesus...did you pick out the drapes at home too? lol......
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Apr 14, 2011 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions
The color scheme didn't tranfer from my Word.doc and there are no color functions in the posting tools ... so I wrote in colors
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 14, 2011 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Ahhh!! that does make sense. Poor fella. Go through all the work of color coding for nothin!
by Marcus Allen Krause on Apr 14, 2011 12:56 PM PDT reply actions
I don't want your pity, damn you. .... I want functionality
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 14, 2011 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions
,,and furthermore...
Why arent there asterisks around those guys who were born when Mercury was in retrograde, thus affecting their performance during games when Jupiter’s 3rd moon was in the waning gibbous?
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Apr 14, 2011 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, it is woefully deficient - not even a caveat index
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 14, 2011 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Tsk tsk.....the caveat index! Indeed...
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Apr 14, 2011 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Pity is all you shall receive. Now, fetch me a Shrubbery!!
Just kiddin. it wasnt pity, it was empathy.
by Marcus Allen Krause on Apr 15, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Empathy is it! Why you ...
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 15, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Aye, yes, and that's the rub...
Leaving out a Caveat Index for those who also count the holes in square ceiling tiles when not blogging here.
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Apr 14, 2011 9:47 PM PDT reply actions
..I oughta....
The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....
by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Apr 15, 2011 12:20 PM PDT reply actions
wait'l I get my hands on you
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I did the (2010) draft. ... I made a trade for Seymour. Gave up the first-rounder this year. I could tell you why. You may not think it was a good trade. I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/1911]
by Sons-of-Blanda on Apr 15, 2011 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
If you come to Lambeau for the Raider game this year (THERE BETTER BE A SEASON) ud have your chance
I would be the drunkard walking around saying “Da RRRRAIIIDERSSS” Chris Berman style
by Marcus Allen Krause on Apr 15, 2011 12:41 PM PDT reply actions
Dig it when Berman does that
Especially when he’s feeling it, like during the highlight reel that was McFadden stiff arming pros like children.
"The only yardstick for success our society has is being a champion. No one remembers anything else."--John Madden
""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson
Mario
has to be a red! Com’ on man! I’m also not sold on Mike Mitchell yet. They guy has to prove he is a starter for that second round pick.
Good article, love your research.
It would be very depressing to look back at the previous drafts from 2002 till this point. How many of those guys are even in the NFL now?
Negativity aside, another good draft, and this team is stacked for years to come.
"We can't stop here... This is bat country."
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Silver And Black Pride
Related FanShots on Silver And Black Pride
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Jerry Jones says Cowboys championship window is closing; Tony Romo disagrees
- Lawrence Taylor was told his Super Bowl ring was bought by Charlie Sheen
- Chad Ochocinco gets robbed, mourns loss of Starbucks gold card
- Robert Griffin III will be first NFL player with Roman numerals on his jersey
- Alex Smith joins the burgeoning ‘stats are for losers’ movement
