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2011 Oakland Raiders' Personnel Packaging: What Was Effective, What Wasn't; 1st team Results

OAKLAND, CA - AUGUST 28: Derek Hagan #80 of the Oakland Raiders celebrates with Nick Miller #89 and Brandon Myers #83 after scoring a touchdown against the New Orleans Saints in the first quarter during an NFL pre-season football game at the O.co Coliseum August 28, 2011 in Oakland, California. (Photo by Thearon W. Henderson/Getty Images) This pic is classic!

Initial assessments from first watching revealed we were able to move the ball fairly easily down the field, and New Orleans was able to do their thing easily versus our starters, sans Richard Seymour, Chris Johnson, and John Henderson.

Onto the breakdown... hit the jump and let's see what the film reveals:

Star-divide

The Saints come out in 20 personnel: 2 backs, 0 TEs, 3 wide receivers. Devery Henderson flanking weak side versus DeMarcus Van Dyke, and Marques Colston strong side versus Stanford Routt. Brees seems to like the one on one matchup with DVD, and when Henderson comes off the line unjammed, he locks in and completes a thirty yard strike; Van Dyke's back to the ball and Brees, right over his left shoulder.

1st and 10 on 45 in Raiders territory. Saints now in 21 personnel, weakside I formation, two wideouts lined up on the left side, and TE Graham goes about 12 yards and cuts out with Tyvon Branch covering. Brees hits him in the hands in the dirt, a little ahead of him, and it falls incomplete. Should've been caught.

2nd and 10, 45 yard line. Empty backfield, single TE, four wideout set, two flank, two slot.  TE Jimmy Graham looks for room in the seam with McClain stepping into the passing lane, tight coverage, knocking the ball down. Nice play by Rolando.

3rd and 10, 45. 10 personnel, single back, four wideout set. Raiders d backs up on the line, w/ exception of single high safety, indicating 1 on 1 on flankers. Robert Meachem goes down and in with the catch on DeMarcus Van Dyke, again with his back to the ball, tight coverage, and Brees hits his front shoulder for the first down.

1st and 10, 26 yard line. Saints come out in 11 personnel, single back, 1 TE, three wide receiver set, with Jimmy Graham lined up weakside. Brees hits Graham in the left side flats off the play action to Ingram, and Branch closes quickly to make the tackle for no YAC. Collinsworth notes Henderson has DVD beat deep, for the easy touchdown had Drew seen him, but the pressure from RDE Trevor Scott who gets quickly off the block and into the passing lane probably forced him to checkdown.

2nd and 6. The give to Ingram from the no huddle, quickly snuffed out for no gain.

3rd and 6, 22 yard line. Saints again in single back, four wideout spread package. Sproles the single back, is hit in the left side flats, with Rolando coming in quickly to push him out of bounds. Illegal formation called, with LT Bushrod off the line. Penalty is declined, bringing up 4th and 2, Saints again hurrying up to the line.

4th and 2, pass to Marques Colston now on the left side, who is allowed to quick slant in on DeMarcus Van Dyke who fails to jam at the line (again) for the easy completion and first down.

1st and goal, Saints in 21 personnel, backs in the I formation, Jimmy Graham off left tackle, motioning right before the snap, no one follows him indicating zone coverage. The give to Mark Ingram who runs off tackle right side down to the 1 yard line. Defensive line lost the point of attack here, and was pushed back to allow Ingram a few extra after contact.

2nd and goal on the 1. Saints again go no huddle, same package and formation, this time the give to Ingram off the left side between the tackles and is met at the 1 for no gain, but flag is called on Graham for the false start.

2nd and goal from the 7. 21 personnel, strong side offset I formation, Graham on strong side, two wide receivers flanking. Another quick slant to Colston, again untouched off the line, for the completion back down to about the 1 yard line. At this point, Brees is locking on to whomever DVD is covering, and appears to know he'll be open.

3rd and goal from the 1. Saints no huddle again, same personnel, now lined up in the I formation. The give is to Ingram between the tackles on the right side behind Jahri Evans (big day for him) and walks in easily for the TD. D line again lost the point of attack, and is pushed back to allow a big hole for Ingram to march right in, diving at the line. 5:15 second, 80 yard, eleven play drive, 8 passes, three rushes by the Saints to produce the touchdown.

Raiders ball, 1st and 10 from their 9 yard line. Raiders in 21 personnel, offset weakside I formation, TE Myers lined up left side. The give to Michael Bush off left tackle, picks up a few yards.

2nd and 7 on the 12. Again, it's 21 personnel, but Marcel lines up TE left side, then motions into the I in front of Bush, two wide receivers. The deep pass to Heyward-Bey is short, and Darrius turns around at the sideline to attempt the catch; it hits his right arm and falls incomplete. Collinsworth points out that Darrius just needed to set up CB Patrick Robinson with a little move or juke to create some separation in one-on-one coverage, but the film shows he just runs the fly. It was also a pretty catchable ball; difficult, as he had to turn his body, but he got a hand on it, with Robinson reaching between his arms to break it up.

3rd and 7, 12 yard line. Raiders lined up in what looks like 21 pro form, but it's actually Nick Miller in the backfield weak side, Bush strong side. Brandon Myers is lined up on the left, and motions to the right slot, while Nick Miller motions to line up between Barnes and Myers on the right, finally motioning back left before the snap, and back to the right. A man follows Miller, indicating man coverage. The ball is snapped, and Derek Hagan lined up on the left quick slants in to make a nice catch for the first down. This possession receiver has been missing from our passing game bigtime, and Hagan is filling the role superbly, this time against tight coverage making a grab during contact.

1st and 10, 25 yard line. Looks like single back, but Marcel Reece is lined up left side flanker, and Myers again on the left side. Reece motions right to the offset strong side I formation, while Myers motions from left TE to right, Michael bush deep in the backfield. Reece finally motions to the weak side before the snap, the quick slant in pass from Campbell to Denarius Moore flanking right to the 30 yard line is complete.

2nd and 5, 30 yard line, and the Raiders come out no huddle. Quick pass to Marcel Reece in the left side flats for a gain of about 4.

3rd and 1, 34 yard line. 21 personnel, backs in the I formation, Myers lined up strong side, with the right side flanker tight right, and about a yard deep in what looks like a Max protect set. The HB cutback to Bush who starts left and cuts back right, easily picks up the first down and a couple. Right side of the line nice cutback blocking on this play, and they win the point of attack, easily creating a nice lane for Bush to build a head of steam.

1st and 10, 36 yard line. Looks like single back, 11 personnel, Myers lined up strong side TE, with three wide receivers bunched left, but Michael Bush motions to the I, disguising the 21 personnel. Denarius motions from left to right, and the HB draw to Bush nets a couple more in the dirt.

2nd and 8, 38 yard line. 21 personnel, backs lined up in the weak side offset I, Derek Hagan and Denarius Moore swapping sides in motion before the snap. The give is to Michael Bush between the tackles, and Jason does a nice job of selling a potential play action, and Bush easily picks up the first down. Brandon Myers with a nice block to help create the lane.

1st and 10, 51 yard line in Saints' territory. Raiders in a single back, two TE set, the give to Bush who starts left, cutting back right, narrowly escaping Shaun Rogers who blew up Samson Satele, who is lined up in the gap outside Rogers, at the point of attack, ragdolling him to the ground. Michael Bush then jukes his way around the pursuit on the right side to pick up a nice first down. We absolutely need to sign this guy long term.

1st and 10, 39 yard line, Raiders again no huddle, again same personnel, single back, two TEs, two wideouts. This time the back is Rock Cartwright in for Michael bush, and Rock gets a three yard gain off the left side. Rogers again penetrating the backfield, but unable to make a play.

2nd and 7, 36 yard line. Still single back, 12 personnel. Campbell drops back, sees Hagan one-on-one in the dirt, hits him on the quick slant, and Hagan breaks free for the TD on Tracy Porter, who loses his footing in the dirt, with Hagan finishing him off with a well-timed stiff arm off balance, for the 35 yard TD catch and run. Raiders drive 91 yards for the TD.

More to come, from next drives, in a new post. Game knotted at 7, with both teams fielding most of their first teamers; I won't get into who didn't play, as we are all pretty aware of who that is! One has to believe that CJ, Seymour, and big bad John Henderson would've seen a different outcome against Drew F. Brees, but that's another matter!

Poll
Would Chris Johnson, Richard Seymour, and John Henderson have produced a different outcome against Drew Brees on the opening drive?
Absofreakinlutely!
407 votes
Probably not; Drew F. Brees would've then moved through his progressions, finding another weak spot, of which there remain lots.
146 votes
Tough to say, but at the least it would'nt have left DVD on an island with Devery Henderson or Marques Colston.
371 votes
The pressure was there early and often, but Drew had guys wide open all over the field, and he doesn't need much time, so probably not.
63 votes

987 votes | Poll has closed

Raiders Fan Confidence Poll

Last tallied on 08/31.

21|1:|0|100&chxt=x,y&chco=5098c7&chd=t:66

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Great job as usual

I can see a lot of teams trying to spread us out a lot especially early as I would think that as the season goes on at least one or two of our young db’s should step up.

In this particulate game the Saints O-Line really dominated our D-line early, when the real games start we really need to make sure the DLine comes out a lot faster than they have in preseason and this will obviously assist the DB’s greatly. I also think with CJ back and another experienced corner in Lito (as long as he is not totally washed up) will give the pass rush a second or so more to get to the QB.

"We’re going to be a tough, rugged football team that walks with a swagger and plays the way the Raiders used to play." Hue Jackson

"Just win baby. That’s what Al Davis says and that’s all I want to do. . . . I just want to be the best, and I just want to win." - Terrelle Pryor

by Ozraider on Aug 30, 2011 5:10 PM PDT reply actions  

yeah. lot of that occurred from the hurry-up and no huddle on the first drive

a great break in. In a lot of ways, I see this preseason panning out as a great lead in to the season. It exposes where we need to get better, and fast, but also highlights a lot of things any team can do that we need to prepare ourselves for. All things considered, I think we might’ve stifled them with a more seasoned corner on the wide receivers, but our entire secondary must get better, and we def need an OLB that can bring some cover skills.

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 30, 2011 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

An area that has been overshadowed by the inconsistency of the young corners is the fact the Vernon Davis and Jimmy Graham tore us to shreds. We need to be able to cover these TE’s although I do think (hope) Mitchell can help with this.

"We’re going to be a tough, rugged football team that walks with a swagger and plays the way the Raiders used to play." Hue Jackson

"Just win baby. That’s what Al Davis says and that’s all I want to do. . . . I just want to be the best, and I just want to win." - Terrelle Pryor

by Ozraider on Aug 30, 2011 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think Mitchell will most definitely help to alleviate this, but it's pretty obvious we need a linebacker who can do it

I know Mitchell will come in on the obvious passing downs against prolific TEs like that, but it would be nice to bring in some OLB talent that’s good at it.

The lack of any word has me on pins and needles over it.

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 30, 2011 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Absolutely

Even if they are happy with Groves to start we have zero to come in if we have an injury, the only explanation I can think of is that they really don’t like what is available at all and are waiting for cuts which is understandable but doesn’t do much to decrease our anxiety.

"We’re going to be a tough, rugged football team that walks with a swagger and plays the way the Raiders used to play." Hue Jackson

"Just win baby. That’s what Al Davis says and that’s all I want to do. . . . I just want to be the best, and I just want to win." - Terrelle Pryor

by Ozraider on Aug 30, 2011 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

exactly! I hate times like this with this clandestine organization!

but the bright side is, some great talent will most definitely be around with the short offseason, no OTAs or minicamps. And the majority cuts have yet to happen.

I don’t really like any of the FAs available either; they’re just other versions of what we have, really.

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 30, 2011 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

No the available FA's are not all that attractive at the moment

And there is no point signing someone for the sake of it when as you say there is a high probability that better players will come available. Most of the time there is a reason that guys are still completely unsigned all the way through everyone’s training camps.

"We’re going to be a tough, rugged football team that walks with a swagger and plays the way the Raiders used to play." Hue Jackson

"Just win baby. That’s what Al Davis says and that’s all I want to do. . . . I just want to be the best, and I just want to win." - Terrelle Pryor

by Ozraider on Aug 30, 2011 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll be keeping my eyes peeled in this next batch of cuts.

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 30, 2011 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

We need to disguise our defensive sets / coverages

Open in the NFL means single coverage. On the 1st drive, Brees did not have to make a read. It was way too obvious that DVD was man-up with no over the top help (other than the safety arriving too late on deep sideline patterns).

Less than a handful of veteran CBs would be effective in this situation – against a top tier QB making pin point passes. More than likely, putting DVD in this coverage was purely a TEST. But make no mistake, if the Raiders play this coverage in real games, they will get air’d out, CJ or not.

by jbrat on Aug 30, 2011 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have noticed this as well. I think that's what they're doing on defense, though

because it’s been anything but on offense, with lots of pre-snap motions and decoy personnel sets with shifts, but I think it makes it easier to evaluate talent by putting the defenders in tougher situations man-to-man. Also no jamming of receivers happening on defense, and I know for a fact that’s not how they’re being coached up as Raiders. It’s gotta be how they’re using them for the moment, I believe.

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 30, 2011 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

No real surprised here... the next round of cuts will prob contain some names we're more familiar with

Date Description


08/30/2011 Placed OL Alan Pelc and LB Travis Goethel on Injured Reserve
08/30/2011 Waived FB Bryson Kelly, OL Ben Lamaak, WR Damola Adeniji, WR Steve Goulet, S Josh Bullocks, DT Derrick Hill and waived/injured Lou Eliades
08/26/2011 Waived QB Jordan La Secla and OL Alan Pelc, placed S Hiram Eugene on Injured Reserve.

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 30, 2011 5:53 PM PDT reply actions  

off topic

“Just looked at my player rating on madden I’m overall a 75 this maybe y I don’t play it I couldn’t atleast be the 80s r u kidding me.”

by RyanTheRaider on Aug 30, 2011 5:56 PM PDT reply actions  

who

said that?

youtube.com/roney408
facebook.com/roney408

by Roney408 on Aug 30, 2011 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

never looked at mine! Still haven't gotten the new game tho

can’t afford it right now! can’t wait to get it tho! I get my fix during the slow periods of the week, and play the upcoming matchups. over, and over, and over, subbing x player here, and mixing up calls there…

I let the comp play itself doing the same things too. Always interesting.

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 30, 2011 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure I am in the 90's

Got that Raider Height weight speed combo LMAO

"We’re going to be a tough, rugged football team that walks with a swagger and plays the way the Raiders used to play." Hue Jackson

"Just win baby. That’s what Al Davis says and that’s all I want to do. . . . I just want to be the best, and I just want to win." - Terrelle Pryor

by Ozraider on Aug 30, 2011 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

oh, snap! it's a player quote?

who is it?

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 30, 2011 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bush

"We’re going to be a tough, rugged football team that walks with a swagger and plays the way the Raiders used to play." Hue Jackson

"Just win baby. That’s what Al Davis says and that’s all I want to do. . . . I just want to be the best, and I just want to win." - Terrelle Pryor

by Ozraider on Aug 30, 2011 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

yup. that's weak sauce. Bush is a straight up beast

is he at least categorically over 90 anywhere? Like breaks tackles, or carrying? He’s a beast, carries piles, to quote Blackheartsilvereyes, “channels Tyrone Wheatley,”, and doesn’t fumble…

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 30, 2011 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

My goddam xbox is away for service so I can't play it yet

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

"We’re going to be a tough, rugged football team that walks with a swagger and plays the way the Raiders used to play." Hue Jackson

"Just win baby. That’s what Al Davis says and that’s all I want to do. . . . I just want to be the best, and I just want to win." - Terrelle Pryor

by Ozraider on Aug 30, 2011 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Terrible rating.

Bush should be a minimum 85+ for his speed(for a big man its very good) and his ability to break tackles and earn those extra yards.
And DMAC should be at least a 92+ minimum.

youtube.com/roney408
facebook.com/roney408

by Roney408 on Aug 30, 2011 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

It really sucks

that Bush is so low in the speed cat. in a game that is driven by speed. It really takes away from his usefullness in the game. They have him as being so slow that anything beside a dive is a wasted down. Screens to Bush always result in lost yards. Which as Raiders fans, we know is total crap.
On another note, Pryor has a speed rating of 90

by Scrivley on Aug 30, 2011 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

What is Pryor overall?

What are his accuracy and trow power?

"We’re going to be a tough, rugged football team that walks with a swagger and plays the way the Raiders used to play." Hue Jackson

"Just win baby. That’s what Al Davis says and that’s all I want to do. . . . I just want to be the best, and I just want to win." - Terrelle Pryor

by Ozraider on Aug 30, 2011 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not good

I think in the 60’s overall. Not sure about the power and accuracy, will check it out later.

by Scrivley on Aug 30, 2011 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

65

I believe… terrible rating lmao. How does Newton get 77 and Pryor gets 65????

youtube.com/roney408
facebook.com/roney408

by Roney408 on Aug 30, 2011 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who uses Bush anyways lol

Madden is about that speed put Taiwan as your 2nd
Mitchell at the Lb spot
Wimbley at De
Boyd at other Lb spot
Maybe Pryor at qb(if you know how to use him)
& the Raiders are a cheatcode just like in 2011

by Tjbwall on Aug 30, 2011 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

& the Raiders are a cheatcode just like in 2011

What do you mean?

Dangerously? Yea.

by TooShort2Play on Aug 30, 2011 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think what he means is

the Raiders almost present and unfair advantage. In the game, speed kills. The Raiders have speed, speed, and more speed. A decent OLB is a 90 rated DE. You can easily shift your roster around and have an all star team.
Three Raiders WR are above 95 in speed as well as Ausberry being rated close to the 90’s in speed (87?). You can totally exploit this in the game. Almost like cheating.
In Madden 06, all you had to do everytime was put Collins at QB instead of Tuisasopo and hit Moss on the PA Fly everytime. He was God in that game.

by Scrivley on Aug 30, 2011 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

i remember

and i understand. Pryor is bad in the game tho

Dangerously? Yea.

by TooShort2Play on Aug 31, 2011 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol@

how dedicated brandon meyers is to slapping hagans ass. LMAOO!!!

youtube.com/roney408
facebook.com/roney408

by Roney408 on Aug 30, 2011 5:59 PM PDT reply actions  

He's totally locked in! too funny!

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 30, 2011 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

ROFL!

"We’re going to be a tough, rugged football team that walks with a swagger and plays the way the Raiders used to play." Hue Jackson

"Just win baby. That’s what Al Davis says and that’s all I want to do. . . . I just want to be the best, and I just want to win." - Terrelle Pryor

by Ozraider on Aug 30, 2011 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

The "O" Seems To Be Using Allot More Shifts And Is Up To The Line Allot Sooner Than Last Season...

It’s nice to see that the “QB” is getting the time and the tools to diagnose the “D” before the play….That element of our game has been seriously lacking…Breaking the huddle with only a few ticks left and rushing to get the play off was killing me…

by PantyRaider on Aug 30, 2011 6:35 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

JC's awareness is much better too. He's calling out the Mike to his teammates, and adjusting the backfield accordingly

lot’s happening before snaps. I like how Jason’s managing the game, and he looked awesome on this first drive. I also love the use of weapons, and moving around, confusing the shit outta opposing DC’s. That’s how we need to be using all this speed, and add in a Hagan, who’s stepped up and owned the possession role, and you’ve added an element that’s been sorely missing for a long, long, long time.

Overall, I’m stoked rewatching the first drives, and breaking it all down. We moved the ball pretty well with backups, but some costly penalties took away scores that would’ve matched it up.

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 30, 2011 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

oh yeah!

and JC looks like he’s relishing that role. I’m not sure I’d have given him the benefit of the doubt beforehand, I must admit. Pleasantly surprised!

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 30, 2011 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

+1

Been too long since we could say that!

by samiam2112 on Aug 30, 2011 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Watch the first half again...

Most of JCs passes were either check downs or hitch, even to the WRs. Even the 35 TD to Hagen was a short hitch, all TAC.

Divide the field into 9 sectors: short / medium / deep … left / middle / right.

I recall only 1 medium/left pass to Hagen (very clean, crisp pass) that resulted in significant YAC.

Campbell had 4 other medium / deep throws. One to Meyers looked like a drop in live action.

But Campbell had a least 3 medium / deep throws that either floated or were mis-reads into double and triple coverage: the INT everyone knows about, but go watch the horrible deep / middle to D. Moore into triple coverage.

Campbell really struggles with medium / deep throws and it will spell trouble.

Also, did anyone else catch the NBC analysis of JC’s mechanics: full 360 drop clock rotation that was adding 0.2 seconds (compared to Brees release).

Hate me for saying it, but these are the facts folks. Film don’t lie and game day won’t either. This is why I’m very happy with the T Pryor pick.

by jbrat on Aug 30, 2011 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

absolutely correct about JC, but we can win so long as he can be mediocre here

and do it occasionally like he did to Ford, which admittedly were poor passes, but the kid made a play. Now, we have a couple of other kids who can go up and make those plays too. I was impressed with how he improved managing the offense with all the motions and shifts, identifying the potential decoys in defenses too.

I’ll also agree with you on the note about his taking longer than Drew on his delivery; at this point he’s not gonna change his mechanics, and lots of qbs don’t compare to Drew’s quick release, and it’s a testament to how he’s gotten so good that he can work on the minutia of his game, and that’s why he’s great. Jason is great at play action, and should occasionally be able to buy time enough to hit receiver on short to intermediate route catch and go’s for TDs, so I’m okay with him for now.

Where you completely lost me was where you think Pryor will remedy this problem with certainty. I want it to happen more than he himself; I just don’t see it happening.

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 30, 2011 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

"TP" Has A Quick Release But Also Several Other Machanical Problems...

Crying about "JC"s mechanics in one breath and pimping “TP” in the other is a bit off kilter Me Thinks!!!…

"JC"s main concern has been his hesitation and lack of desire to throw deep…Being off target n too late as a result of that hesitation…What’s helping him now is having targets that can retrieve a poorly thrown ball…For the most part “JC” has kept his passing errors from going to the defenders….

by PantyRaider on Aug 30, 2011 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

With T Pryor ask yourself these questions...

Would you trade JC for Vick? (as a player, forget the salary cap).

Would you trade JC for Cam?

Because Vick is barely 6.0 with below average QB skill set and blazing speed.
JP is 6.5 with below average QB skill set and blazing speed.

Because Cam Newton is 6.5? with below average QB skill set and great football speed.
JP has the same size, better QB skill and better football speed.

by jbrat on Aug 30, 2011 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

If "JC" Develops Into A Vick Type Paymaker At This Level We Will All Be Overjoyed...

But he’s no where near that now and any attempt to pimp him as such is just total foolishness…They are NOT the same player nor do they have the same skill sets…

Vick is a proven winner before his jail time and after which is why I pimped him 2 seasons ago…I pimped “TP” as a future “QB” prospect but an immediate addition as a weapon in the “Slash” position aka Cordell Stewart and nothing more than that…He’s never been viewed at the “Savior” who will rescue my Raiders!!!

Cam is also young and unproven so comparing them is prolley a little closer to reality but again they are NOT the same player nor do they have the same skill sets…Tebow???….

by PantyRaider on Aug 30, 2011 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I admitted JC has his question marks

but he was a first round pick for WA. Pryor remains probably a fourth rounder, for whom we used a third, because Al wanted him. Anointing him and putting him in the same breath as Newton and Vick is asinine at this point, until he proves otherwise.

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 31, 2011 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

So I will ask yet again...

Few questioned Carolina for taking Cam #1 overall.

To my knowledge, no one is suggesting that Carolina convert Cam to WR, TE or “slash.”

IMO (yes OPINION), Pryor has the same size, better QB skills and better football speed than Newton.

From what I’ve seen on film, Newton tends to make one read, then take off running if his primary is not open.

Pryor is very different. He likes to run and can run, but he keeps is eyes downfield and consistently makes plays outside the pocket after the play has broken down.

Explain to me why I’m wrong.

by jbrat on Aug 31, 2011 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Stats: Name One Freakin Stat That Compares "TP" To Vick!!!

“TP” has NEVER even taking his 1st damn snap in the freakin NFL…Are you completely Loony!!!

Cam has at least taken a few snaps in the preseason has he not….

by PantyRaider on Aug 31, 2011 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cam Newton Has Yet To Post A Single Passing "TD"....

21/52 275yds passing
8/67yds rushing w “TD”
Ave Rate 58.3

by PantyRaider on Aug 31, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

By your logic...

(1) Because Pryor has yet to take any snaps in the NFL we should immediately convert him to WR, TE or at best “slash.” Yeah… that makes sense… NOT.

(2) No one in the history of the NFL has ever attempted to evaluate draft picks based on their POTENTIAL. Yeah… that also makes sense…. NOT.

My point is simple enough for even you to understand, PantyRaider: Pryor certainly has as much POTENTIAL as Cam Newton – as an NFL QB. What seems “completely loony” is to argue we should convert Pryor to some position other than QB before he has ever taken a snap in the NFL.

As usual, you make the argument for me…

by jbrat on Aug 31, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

"As usual, you make the argument for me"...As Usual In You 10 Days Here Your Pimping Stupidity!!!

Or is your reference to me regarding another board?…Do I know who you are

#1…You pimped him as being the equal of Vick…That was completely dumb so don’t try to escape the reality of what you pimped!!!..NO moveable “Rubber Walls” allowed…

#2…“TP” has an enormous skill set beyond just playing “QB” that few others have ever had…Hands…Legs…Down field vision as a runner…This is why he has been projected by many as a “Slash” prospect…WildCat “QB” and such…

#3…Potential is just speculations based upon what was seen at the lower level or Combine/Pro Days….It does NOT pretend to pimp a rookie as anyone’s equal….Especially NOT a player like Vick who was just awarded a $100 Mil contract….But that’s exactly what you did:

“This is why I’m very happy with the T Pryor pick.”

“Would you trade JC for Vick? (as a player, forget the salary cap).”

“Because Vick is barely 6.0 with below average QB skill set and blazing speed.
JP is 6.5 with below average QB skill set and blazing speed.”

by PantyRaider on Aug 31, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pryor was not a "reach" in the 3rd round...

That has been my point all along.

(1) I believe Pryor has greater potential as an NFL QB than Cam Newton.

But few have questioned Carolina taking Cam #1 overall.

(2) I believe Pryor has better QB skills than Vick did coming out of college.

If Vick can develop those skills, why can’t Pryor?

The same speculation you have about Pryor could have been applied to Vick as a rookie. You are making a mistake to write Pryor off at QB… before (as YOU pointed out) he has ever taken an NFL snap.

Get over yourself. Because we disagree doesn’t make me the enemy. Objectively will get the Raiders to the SB long before your fantasies.

by jbrat on Aug 31, 2011 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll join you in questioning Cam Newton #1 overall

in fact, if you go back, I believe you’ll see I said no way he’s worth that at the time. I don’t think his skills will equate to this level either. Odds say they won’t. Odds say even if you have a modicum of success, it looks something like the brief stint Mike had Atlanta that drew immediate criticism he couldn’t be a pocket passer, and a movement arose to try to make him something he wasn’t. In a way, it seems his time away was good for him, as was his landing in Philly, for him to find his way to be a great quarterback, using his god given abilities to produce the best possible outcome.

I will say this: I hope you are right about him, and will enjoy watching him try, but with an extremely short leash.

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 31, 2011 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I believe you misconstured Panty's post.

Of all people too, Panty pimped hard and tirelessly to get Pryor signed on the Raiders. Too funny.

S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11

by Sons-of-Blanda on Aug 31, 2011 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh!!...Now You Back Off And Compare "TP" To Vick When He Was Drafted!!!

That’s NOT the way you entered this thing…Always moving those “Rubber Walls” to n fro to fit your arguments!!!

by PantyRaider on Sep 1, 2011 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Reality Check!!!...This Is Where "TP" Is At Now...NO...NOT Ready To Start!!!

Raiders | Terrelle Pryor works on footwork, dropback
Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:33:17 -0700

Oakland Raiders QB Terrelle Pryor worked on his footwork and dropback with offensive coordinator Al Saunders after practice Wednesday, Aug. 31.

by PantyRaider on Sep 1, 2011 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

In college...

and we will try to make him into a guy who can do seven step drops under pressure and still be able to hit the deep routes and not check down. I like that about Pryor, and find him Tarkentonesque in that quality, but we don’t know if he’ll be able to do that at this level, and not get himself crushed trying. Also, today’s wonderlic score—I know it’s not a be all end all—lends to the questions he’ll equate his skills in college to this level.

Don’t get me wrong, I like having him here now that he’s on the squad, but still think the third might’ve been reaching, but when you want a guy, and Al did obviously, it’s not really reaching.

Like I said, I want him to succeed more than anything, but will be reluctant to believe he can until I see it.

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 31, 2011 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

For the record...

Answers like (a) “total foolishness” or (b) “assinine”

are somehow less than convincing. I’m hoping you can do better.

by jbrat on Aug 31, 2011 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

????

Cam Newton/Mike Vick….even JaWalrus 1st overall pick. TP, a stretch at third round.

by Not Jamarcus! on Aug 31, 2011 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hue talked about that

Second year they could expand with movement and shifts. So we are starting to get a glimpse of it. Gruden did a similar thing running the same play out of multiple formations.

by samiam2112 on Aug 31, 2011 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

A question I have is..

how does Talib and Britt get away without get any sort of suspension, But pryor does?
I mean I would imagine the argument would be
“It was during a lockout, so they were not officially employees of the NFL.”

..but then again, neither was Pryor when he did what he did.

Complete hypocrisy.

youtube.com/roney408
facebook.com/roney408

by Roney408 on Aug 30, 2011 8:32 PM PDT reply actions  

You know that's how commissioner's like Goodell do our Raiders, PR!

"tough times call for perseverance and a tough mind. I have been told that I can't play football before. We all know what happened with that. #neverquit"--Mark Herzlich

""The massive Raider Nation is beyond doubt the sleaziest and rudest and most sinister mob of thugs and wackos ever assembled."--Hunter S. Thompson

by brhynno on Aug 30, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Door Was Left Open For A Challeng But So Far No One Is Opening It...

I’m really surprised the NFLPA hasn’t jumped on that one yet…They talked like they would but maybe their still recovering from the battlefield this past off season and leery of taking them on again…

by PantyRaider on Aug 31, 2011 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think its very interesting the raiders choose not to appeal the suspension.

I think its more then they just dont even want to play pryor in the first 5 games. but maybe who knows

Dangerously? Yea.

by TooShort2Play on Sep 1, 2011 1:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Al's older and choosing his battles. But, if he really cared, he would challenge this unprecedented sanction and win

S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11

by Sons-of-Blanda on Sep 1, 2011 5:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

hes finally tired of winning over the NFL?

Its sad when you gotta be the bigger person with the NFL ..

Dangerously? Yea.

by TooShort2Play on Sep 2, 2011 2:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

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