89 Miller Not Getting Cut is Just What Raiders Need + Offensive Projections
by R8RFAN12 on Sep 4, 2011 1:28 PM PDT
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PrintNow, Nick Miller is not a reliable WR and is not a big play threat when it comes to the return game, so how is he just what the Raiders need? The Raiders retaining him clearly points to more playing time for Denarius Moore. During the beginning of training camp and the preseason there was a lot of talk that D Moore was going to take over for Miller returning punts and this meant that Miller was on his way out. The fact that Miller stays tells me that they don't want to risk injury to D Moore on PR's; thus making it clear they want him on the field making plays for our offense. Assuming that DHB's performance stays consistent with what it has been, I see D Moore taking quite a few reps from him this season (and hopefully taking his spot next season).
Lineup @ WR by end of season will be:
Ford becomes #1 (Steve Smith of the Raiders)
Schilines + Murphy split reps #2
D Moore becomes solid #3, but will also see reps as a starter in at least 2 games and push Schilines and Murphy for their spot
Hagan Will take the #4
DHB Will be benched and by next season will have to either restructure and take a lot less $ or he will get cut.
Offensive Projection's:
Passing:The 2012 Raiders are going to be a legit Passing threat depending less on check down passing and more on WR's
Jason Campbell - Has his best season 267/390 (68%) 3,600 yards 23 TD's 15 INT's (+ 1 Rush TD)
Recieving:
Denarius Moore - 30 receptions 450+ yards and 3 TD's
Darius Heyward-bay - 15 receptions 200 yards 0 TD (Loses spot to D Moore after Game 3)
#12 on the Roster but #1 In our hearts Jocoby "Gimme my Ball" Ford 60 receptions 1,000+ yards 5 TD's (10 Total TD- 3 rush, 2 return) - Yes, Ford will be the first Raider to reach 1000 yards recieving since Moss did it in 2005! Look for a high YAC%
Louis Murphy - 40 receptions 450 yards 3 TD's
Chaz "Ouch my Leg" Schilines - Stays healthy and records 45 receptions 450 yards 3 TD's
Derek Hagan - Not much playing time until DHB is gone 12 receptions 150 yards 1 TD
Kevin Boss, David Ausberry, Richard Gordon (Brandon Meyers if they keep 4 TE) combine 30 receptions 300 yards 5 TD (All but 1 in redzone- Ausberry gets his one TD on a big play) I have a 75% of receptions coming on 3rd down or in redzone.
Marcel Reece - Due to better performance by WR's Reece is going to be less of a factor- 15 receptions 200 yards 2 TD's
Bush, McFadden, Jones - 20 combined 400 yards 2 TD
Rushing:
Darren "Mama there go that man again" McFadden - 275 carries 1,500 yards (5.45 yd average) 9TD's
Michael "The Bulldozer" Bush - 160 carries 700 (4.4 yd average) yards 8 TD's
Taiwan "The Flash" Jones - 75 Carries (6 yd average) 450 yards 3 TD's
Jacoby Ford - 10 carries 150 yards 3 TD's
Marcel Reece - With how deep the backfield is Reece will be even less of a factor in the run game then he was last year making his contribution negligible.
Raider's Run Game - 520 carries 2,800 yards 23 TD's # 1 Run Game in the NFL averaging 175 yards a game
What do you think? Are my #s off? What do you think the offense production is going to look like?
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I really hope DHB can atleast benefit from the scheming and play calling during the season as well as the prescence of jacoby ford (800 yrds 8 tds,hella 20+ plays)on the other side(the play action will be deadly this year). I think for his rookie year Denarius is can be dangerous as the 3rd receiver or in the slot. Lous Murphy IMO should be out #2.quite as kept hes been the most productive receiver and i believe he’ll cut down on the drops.regardless the starting situation will play itself out sooner then later and i like the depth at WR.and i don’t see why keep nick miller he doesn’t show much as a wideout imo and i’d rather have rock cartwright or taiwan jones return punts not to mention its a roster spot
RBs combine for 20 receptions?
McFadden had 47 receptions last year alone. I expect a minimum of 25 receptions just on designed screens to the dynamic back and plenty more on dump-offs.
Love to see Jones and McFadden get plenty of screens this season.
by nobodyinparticular on Sep 4, 2011 3:03 PM PDT reply actions
Just projection's based on what I think the recieving core is going to do
McFadden had that many receptions because of unreliable play at WR and Campbell quickly targeting his checkdown, which I think is going to significantly change this year. I have high hopes for this WR core because of the amount of pressure they are putting on each other to preform.
Win Lose or Tie, Raiders Til I Die
McFadden had that many receptions
because of what he can do with the ball
by RyanTheRaider on Sep 4, 2011 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions
You need to look at Nick's numbers. It's true he doesn't have much wiggle, i.e. YAC, but he has dependable hands
and except for his fumble in KCI doesn’t deserve what you wrote about him being prone to fumbling.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
Not sure why I remember him having that as an issue last year... looked it up and edited my statement.. thanks
Win Lose or Tie, Raiders Til I Die
i am surprized that nick miller made the team with all the wr's
by sports with steve on Sep 4, 2011 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Murphy is still injured
and wont be back untill after the opener
by RyanTheRaider on Sep 4, 2011 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
When's the last time Miller made a play as punt returner?
I also believe that DHB is gonna keep his job this year. Call me crazy but i think DHB is gonna have a decent season…600 yrds and a few TDs. Hes been playing a little more hungry this year. Hes not playing like a 1st overall drafted WR should play, but lol, thats not his fault he was drafted that high. I love Al, but he was dumb for drafting him that early. DHB getting 600 yrds+ this year would mean hes not a bust in my eyes cuz i dont see him that much better than that..
Never, but
I think Miller will get that spot nonetheless because all other options are to valuable at their position to risk injury on Special Teams.
Win Lose or Tie, Raiders Til I Die
Miller almost never makes plays as a punt returner
hes only had 1 PR longer than 40yds, and 2 longer than 20yd.
by RyanTheRaider on Sep 4, 2011 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Can't say
that i agree with much of what you have here. First off, DHB has had a nice enough off-season and preseason performance for hue to keep him starting. I really think we’re going to see a lot of DHB running 15/20 yd hooks along the sidelines in 1st n 2nd down plays depending on how the opposing cb lines up against him. This will up his receptions and make good use of his size and speed because he can cut back in use his body to keep the defender behind the play. Now if he put in the work like we’ve been hearing, then he can use that speed and strength to get past the smaller cbs and get the YAC. Let’s face it, with our running game coupled with Ford and whichever WR lines up, the defenses won’t commit additional help to DHB’s side allowing him the OPPORTUNITY to make some impact plays this year.
The other thing that grinded my gear was the expectation for JC. With those numbers, Jason would have an unreal 9.23 YPA to go with a 225 YPG compare that to last year’s performance of 7.26 YPA and 186 YPG while going 194/329, the 4 extra attempts a game from last year’s average will not produce numbers like that. I’m not a hate of JC and I’m expecting him to do great things finally having a 2nd year with the same system, but I just can’t see him putting up such high numbers with so few throws. He’s going to need at least 500 attempts to meet those numbers, and with our current line (Hue saying Barnes will be our starting RT. come on man) and elite run game there’s just no way it’s going to happen this season unless our D becomes a turnover machine.
I will admit to over optimism for JC but,
If you look at his career stats last year was a down year for him. With another year under his belt I see him blowing last years stats out of the water (also his stats ended up being based on what I think our WR core is going to do… and with the elusiveness and speed of our WR’s I believe their YAC is what is going to make JC’s stats look so good). Yes DHB had a nice preseason, but he also showed promise last season, but never did anything with it. There are too many WR’s showing as much big play/game potential as DHB on this roster and even in the preseason they showed more consistency. And as far as his performance in the preseason He began slow with 1 reception for 13 against the Cards, Looked Great against the 9ers, but then fell off against N.O. and then we get to friday’s game. He had 1 reception for 19 yards. Yes he did draw 2 PI, but I have my doubts had he been open if he would have made those catches. I agree he will have the OPPORTUNITY to make some impact plays, but I don’t think he will do it consistently enough to warrant keeping D Moore and Hagan on the bench.
Win Lose or Tie, Raiders Til I Die
Murphy is still injured
and will be out for the opener, Miller will probably be cut when Murphy is back.
No doubt... Miller is hanging on by a thread
(1) When Murphy is back, Miller may be cut.
(2) When Pryor is activated, Miller will certainly be cut.
(3) Once Miller is cut, who do you see returning punts?
I’d really like to see T. Jones back there. The Raiders didn’t chance it in preseason, likely a combination of the lockout and Jones’ injury.
WR slotting
DHB/Hagen_______________Chaz/Hagen/Moore_____Ford/Moore/Murphy
Murphy is gonna be the odd man out…. He’s the next to be replaceable depending on the health of Chaz after contact. That’s why they kept so many WR’s health of the veterans is a concern.
Watch and see is what I'm saying
The emergence of Ford and injury is the biggest reason for Murphy’s reduction Moore will also garner some of his reps.
DHB will be out there and have a productive year…
I have been and have yet seen anything that has left a lasting impression... If he has at least 3 dominating performances where he is the reason the team won and 10 nicely played games where he helps the team win I would stop hating on the guy
Whether his choice or not. he went #7 and was handed a starting spot. He now needs to earn that spot… I am even giving him room to have 3 bad games!
Win Lose or Tie, Raiders Til I Die
So you felt like this last year about McFadden?
Darren “Mama there go that man again” McFadden – 275 carries 1,500 yards (5.45 yd average) 9TD’s
Every sports witter and fan in the country was grumbling about McFadden being a bust. You were one of the few that wasn’t? I wasn’t I hadn’t seen the effort that McFadden exerted last year and the passion he played with. That was new and earned my respect. We also learned that Hue helped McFadden last year. Hue also stated that DHB’s progress is partially Hue’s fault. He used him as a decoy a lot in the offense last year.
DHB never takes a play off Ever watch James Jett of Randy Moss tank play after play? If you didn’t you weren’t watching. DHB works hard and does everything the staff asks of him. Weather you like the numbers or not is whats important. The important think is he never pouts he always give max effort and will do what is asked of him. He’s isn’t a prima dona hes a good kid. Trying to get better if all the players worked that hard we would have less questions…
SO gracious of you to give him a 3 game pass?
If Jason only had 3 bad games last season we make the playoff and win the west….
Mama there go that man again
Hue says that about Moore
by RyanTheRaider on Sep 4, 2011 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions
+1
DHB is young and hard working, and it is ridiculous how much hate he gets. What everyone always forgets is how often DHB is used as a blocker. Not only can he get physical with any DB out there, but he always maintains the blocks down field as the play progresses going until the whistle blows. That is why if you look at the highlights he always is one of the first guys to celebrate in the endzone with whoever scored, because even though it’s not in the tv shot, he’s playing his role making sure that there’s one less defender going after the guy with the ball. That’s a trait that the diva receivers of the league lack, and is the reason why a play designed for a big gain fails – just look at the Moss years.
It's so rare... Thank you for getting it!
It just seems that most people look at football but don’t see football. The highlights and fantasy points are more important then the end result. The name on the helmet and the wins and losses are more important that the stats. JUST WIN BABY!
I called McFadden a bum until he proved me wrong... Doing the same for DHB... and no I never learn my lesson.
Now to begin with I am all for his work ethic and he is a nice guy (From what i hear). However, last year he started 5 Games that he didn’t record a reception in… that is a waste… I don’t know why you’re fighting me on that point… even if we picked him up in the 2nd round he is not playing well… Yes, JC Played like crap, but last season was a low for JC…. DHB played like Crap and it was a High… All I am saying is that with all the skill there is at WR why give this guy more time to develop (while starting) when there are other players to take his spot? Let’s be honest if he didn’t cost Davis so damn much he wouldn’t be starting… and you know I am right!
Win Lose or Tie, Raiders Til I Die
No I think your inccorrect in your assesment
You also may need to learn about what you are watching. Run first offense….
You also admit you can’t learn from your mistakes… That says something, maybe learning is not an option.
How many times did the mediocre Jason Campbell miss? Those are obviously DHB’s fault. There were games last year where they didn’t throw him the ball till the 3rd or the 4th quarter HE DOESN’T POUT HE PLAYS HARD EVERY DOWN!!!
Because you are missing the point there is 11 guys out there and when less then 11 contribute the play will often fail. Why did Barry Sanders never get to the the promise land? He was a man on an island.
Your really just a hater without accepting the fact of being one… You must have been a Randy Moss a fan….
Randy Moss Fan? Really? Now we are taking cheap shots?
Ok buckaroo, Calm down… my analysis of the situation is clearly wrong… DHB is a great receiver and is not to blame for the fact that he didn’t get the ball or do anything with it once he got it… it wasn’t that he couldn’t get open or catch the ball, it is that JC is a horrible QB… I clearly understand what it is you have been saying this entire time because when you watch the film you can clearly see DHB is actually a fantastic receiver… and for the sake of argument let’s not bring up the fact that there is something called fighting and going for the ball, and we probably shouldn’t bring up the fact that players like Ford( pretty sure he got to crappy throws by JC… didn’t he come down with 2 passes that should have been pick off? Noooo… couldnt have been cuz that would mean DHB might not have an excuse), Murphy, Reece, Miller (80), McFadden have all been able to play consistently with mediocre JC at quarterback. You win. the Logic and proofs you have presented are undeniable… and him PLAYING HARD EVERY DOWN is by far your greatest bit of evidence that he is deserving of the starting position. Who cares if he doesn’t perform like a #1 or 2 widewout, as long as he does his best and plays with a smile on his face nothing else matters (Maybe we should give everyone a Lombardi trophy too just for playing)… I bow to your delusional logic and envy your use of useless emotional appeal to his work ethic to trump the stats that contradict your point of view… You my friend, are a King among men and I bow to you! But F!@# you on that Moss comment… that was low and uncalled for… haha!
(Oh and about being a hater… I’m pretty sure I confessed to that “I called McFadden a bum until he proved me wrong… Doing the same for DHB…”)
Win Lose or Tie, Raiders Til I Die
"he didn’t get the ball or do anything with it once he got it"
thats BS,when DHB gets the ball he fights for the YAC.Hue said he he used DHB as a decoy too much, they always sent him deep, this year Hue is trying to get him they ball in positions he can succeed in, like he did with McFadden last year.This preseason DHB showed up and played well.DHB should be a starter this year, based of his preseason play, and the thing he brings to the field that our other receivers dont, excellent blocking.With our run first O, his blocking is important.
by RyanTheRaider on Sep 4, 2011 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions
And did you just compare DHB to Barry Sanders? You sir, are a sick individual!
Win Lose or Tie, Raiders Til I Die
Incorrect
I wasn’t comparing DHB to Barry Sanders or any Sanders it was an analogy to reinforce that it takes 11 guys on a play not 10 not not but all 11. If Barry would have had a team around him the sky would have been the limit. Instead half of those guys stood around and watched because they knew they were not going to be involved. They had an awful culture there.
But now they have Walter McFadden!
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Sep 5, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
They are better off leaving his side of the field empty... at least then there is a reason for why no one was in coverage... better yet
play him on the opposite side of where you want him to play because inevitably he will find himself in perfect coverage… It makes sense to me… If you start in position and always find your way out of it, the logical move is to start out of position because you will always find yourself in it… right? Worth a shot imo.
Win Lose or Tie, Raiders Til I Die
The Lions need bodies at CB.
Lil Walt is a body. Not much more and a barely warm one, but a body nonetheless.
"In football, I root for the Oakland Raiders because they hire castoffs, outlaws, malcontents, and fuck -ups, they have lots of penalties, fights, and paybacks, and because Al Davis told the rest of the pig NFL owners to go get fucked. Someday, the Raiders will be strong again, and they will dip the ball in shit and shove it down the throats of the wholesome, white, heartland teams that pray together and don't deliver late hits." - George Carlin.
Did you see him lay down against the Saints?
It’s him between Bell and the first down and he goes low matrix and avoids the contact Bell low hurdles first down!
dhb doest have the ability to sell the route though , he hasnt developed that ability to make a db bite and then smoke em , i hope the lights come on for him , but he had all the opportunity in the world and cant put up the numbers
ford , hagen , and murphy will should pay off big this year once healthy but moore deserves the chance to see what he can do , shillenz is an excellent bench player but his body just wont let him stay on the feild , but dhb may never crack 500 yds unless we can get a wide rec coach that can teach him how to sell a route
On a serous note
Went to the Saints game and all I heard was drunk people yelling for DHB to be cut. It was just stupid and I really have a distaste for hater-ism. It’s not pointed towards you just the topic.
That is dumb... I just dont like how he is handed the starting position when other people are playing more consistent as pure WR's (maybe not in blocking or Wok Ethic) ... doesn't mean
I think he should be flat out cut… if after this year he is still not consistent i think he should be forced to take a paycut and if he chooses to fight it, then cut him… But chanting for him to be cut in the preseason is just idiotic. I mean i dont have much faith in the guy, but I am going to wait until he performs badly in games matter before I start calling for him to be cut. Hell there is still hope, maybe he’ll have a breakout season and prove me wrong like Darren “Mama there goes that man again” Mcfadden… I would love to come up with a catchy middle name for DHB… Maybe Darrius “OMFG he Caught the Ball with his Hands” Heyward-Bey… Yea, I like that. It has a nice ring to it. On top of it all there are players that should get cut way before him… like Joe Porter, Nick Miller, and Quinten “F@#$ING-BUM” Groves! (I didn’t even come up with that… it’s his middle name by birth). Anyway, due to the fact that I am a hater who is only swayed by stats I think DHB is going to be underwhelming again this year, but I don’t think he should be cut… he is going to be a decent bench guy for us.
Win Lose or Tie, Raiders Til I Die
There wasn't a spot for "Miller is just not that good!" dependable hands thats what we have TE for
If Hagen was not here you may have an argument… Hagen is the key to this core or WR’s.
i think hagan has been the most consistant of all our receivers this year , always seems to be there for campbell when he needs em , a qb needs a guy like that
i think hagan and ford should start , with murphy dhb , moore ,and shillenz off the bench
Wow ... I'm amazed by the love that Hagan's getting from the Nation already ...
To be honest, I’m scratching my head a bit. Sure, he’s looked good up against 2nd and 3rd stringers in the preseason, and sure we’re all excited to see a receiver wearing the S&B actually put up a 100-yd game … that’s seemingly been so rare in the past 8 years … but let’s not get ahead of ourselves here.
We’ve seen a lot of players over the years wow us in preseason, only to have the regular season, playing against real starters, show us what they’re really made of (or not).
Just to pull a name out of a hat … remember what a bad-ass that guy K.D. Williams looked like in the preseason when we first got him? And how long did it take for him to be exposed once the season started?
As I believe I’ve mentioned here, Hagan has been in the league for 5 years, and while he was an absolute stud in college (believe he holds some pac-10 records as a receiver), he’s been cut at least 4 times in those 5 seasons, and he’s spent relatively little time on the field, and started VERY few games. I believe his longest catch ever is something like 27 yards.
If Hagan’s going to be a starter we may have to bring back Andrew Walter … since he seems to be the one QB that capable of making Hagan look like a star.
Not saying he’s not going to turn out to be a good pickup, but if he’s never caught on after the previous 5 season, I’d say the odds are long against him ever being a top-flight receiver in the NFL. 5 seasons is a long time to go w/o making much of a mark in this league, esp. for a receiver.
Don’t get me wrong, I wish him the very best of course, he’s wearing the silver and black after all … but considering who he’s competing for playing time against, and esp. if Moore is as good as it looks like he may be … I’m anticipating DH spending a heck of a lot of time riding the bench this season … unless we trade away Chaz or Murph in order 2 shore up a different position (which I’d not be against, frankly, esp. Chaz). A move like that (or the seemingly inevitable injury to one or both of them), could definitely change that equation fairly quickly.
Call me a spoil-sport if you like, but I’m not ready to proclaim Hagan to be a legit upgrade from anybody on our squad (aside from #89) until I see him out there playing against real NFL starters, making shit happen.
by Brett J Valjalo on Sep 5, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I watched this live vs the Saints
I have seen most receivers in the bay and some in the Pac-10 I know what I saw… Not comparing him to anyone. He looked legit to me…
Derek Hagan 6 121 20.2 35 1 0
I hope he's good, man ...
I just remember so many times getting all excited about dude’s based on pre-season play … hell, the guy that was Hagan’s QB in college, Andrew Walter, looked AMAZING to me when I first saw him play in a pre-season game.
I was there at the preseason game when Walter made his NFL debut, and I remember just going ‘WOW, this guy is a friggin ROOKIE?!?". The way he carried himself, the way he ran the offense … he played like a veteran that was just shakin’ the dust off.
I was honestly convinced that I was looking at the QB of the future in that kid, based on that one game I saw. Obviously, I was WAY off the mark on that one.
Again, I don’t mean to come off like a dark cloud here, but … DH has had 5 prior seasons (or is it 6?) to make some kind of a mark, to earn a starting spot … and the few times he’s been able to do so, he hasn’t kept the spot.
So I’m expecting him to be an occasional contributor, this years equivalent of a JLH (hopefully a bit better than that). I’m guessing they’ll probably they’ll play him mostly in 3rd and long type situations.
Unless (until) one or more of them get hurt, I’m fairly certain we’re looking at Chaz, Murph, DHB, and Ford getting the vast majority of the snaps this season, and to mix it up, they’ll throw in Moore over Hagan.
Honestly, I see absolutely no reason to keep both Murph and Chaz … I think we need to trade one of the two in exchange for some LB or CB talent. They are pretty similar receivers in terms of their talents/skill sets, and with Ford, Moore and Hagan all seeming like guys we should be wanting to get the ball to … I don’t really see the point of keeping both of them.
Obviously I’d like to trade DHB even more, but since that’s not likely even an option, I think trying to get something for one of the other two would make a hell of a lot of sense, because we’re overloaded at WR ATM, and desperately in need of help in other areas … no question about it.
by Brett J Valjalo on Sep 6, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Hagan should have the Yoda effect on the young receivers
Do or do not there is no try!
That’s all I have seen from Hagan he looks so calm and comfortable has a great feel for the game. Runs nice routes, has good hands and he is elusive after the catch. IMO opinion he offers everything that Chaz was supposed to. I would like to move Chaz or Murphy. The jury is still out on Murphy he reminds me of JLH big splash first year. He is inconsistent, some of that was overlooked by a fair amount of fans. His injuries and the emergence of Ford last year curtailed his progress and missing the whole preseason doesn’t bode well for him. DHB is gonna be fine this year…
boss will obviously get his share of balls as well .Our offense is lookin nice..im a little bit concerned about flags though with the offensive line.Yards are important ive seen too many raider drives,and ig plays negated or yards comprimised.other then i think the oline i solid but could use some de[th.did any1 else see hue getting on khalif barnes? im glad ta c it
All these potential offensive numbers will rest squarely
on the shoulders of the O-Line. If our young new line can keep the heat off Campbell all of your passing numbers could come true and if they can open holes for our incredible stable of running backs your rushing numbers could come true as well.
So all eyes should be on the men in the trenches, for their success will determine the success of this offense as a whole.
Here’s to hoping they gel and dominate!
"Now I know what your thinking, did he fire six shots or only five. Ive forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being that this is the 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, you have to ask your question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk!"
Dirty Harry Callahan
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