Oakland Raiders Visit with Tully Banta-Cain and Hopefully Will Sign Him
by Rich Langford on Sep 8, 2011 12:24 PM PDT
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PrintTully Banta-Cain visited the Oakland Raiders today and passed his physical. Banta-Cain is a linebacker. That is enough for me right there. I say sign him. I'll take any LB at this point.
Banta-Cain was cut by the Patriots earlier this offseason. At the time, he was has recovering from surgery to repair a strained abdominal muscle. Apparently, he has recovered will.
Banta-Cain is 30 years old, 6'2" and 250 pounds. Last season he recorded 45 tackles, five sacks and one fumble. In his nine year career, he has 250 tackles, 27 1/2 sacks, one interception and four forced fumbles.
According to Aaron Wilson of Scout.com, Banta-Cain has drawn interest from seven teams. My guess is though, that if the Raiders want him, they can sign him.
The bright side of Quentin Groves being a horrible starting linebacker is that any incoming LB has a fantastic shot of working their way into the starting lineup.
Banta-Cain is a limited linebacker. His greatest asset to the Patriots was as a pass rusher. He won't be doing a lot of rushing the passer in Oakland. Of course, that fits the mold of recent LBs the Raiders have brought in. Limited or not, I would still expect him to be a slight upgrade over Groves. Jump over for a couple of scouting reports....
Here is the analysis of Banta-Cain from ESPN:
Banta-Cain is inconsistent playing the run because of his limited strength and use of leverage at the point of attack. He lacks good hand use to stack and shed contact quickly. He is limited athletically will struggle to make plays if isolated versus quick players. He has average burst and ability to change direction. He has improved as a pass-rusher with better hand use and counter moves coming off the edge.
This comes to us via Pats Pulpit when Banta-Cain was released:
If this is indeed the end of Banta-Cain's career with the Patriots, he will ultimately go down in Patriots history as a really solid role player, but not much else. Banta-Cain came in as a seventh round pick in 2003, and earned his way into the team's rotation by the end of his rookie year. He ultimately played in and won two Super Bowls with the Patriots. In 2006, he turned into a viable starting option, picking up 5.5 sacks on the year.
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To me he is a Trevor Scott clone in terms of production in the OLB or DE position.
Bring him in and cut Groves. He is way better than Groves.
The RaiderLaker
Anyone but Groves works for me! Hell they could sign goldfish to replace groves and I would be grateful... Why a goldfish?
It was the first useless thing I could think of that is still better than Groves
Win Lose or Tie, Raiders Til I Die
Are we at the point where we can sign guys and not have it impact our potential compensatory picks?
I think this might be why Davis has waited to make some moves…to protect our potential compensatory picks.
You know what would make a good story? Something about a clown who makes people happy, but inside he's real sad. Also, he has severe diarrhea.
By voting Yes, they need depth you are stating
that you would rather keep groves on the field? are you kids our of your minds!? Groves has speed but that is it… why keep him on the field… if we sign him I say Banta-Cain starts for sure or at least splits reps with Scott at WLB, but time for Groves to go!
Win Lose or Tie, Raiders Til I Die
groves
Groves had his first year at playing OLB in 2010. Give the guy a chance. He has been playing DE most of his career. He actually showed some improvment in camp and preseason. He just has to gte that mentality of rushing the QB out of his head. He must stay in his gap cover first and seal the edge intead of moving up to rush and letting the ball carrier get around him.
How about 16 regular and 8 preseason games. Sorry bigmark, this guy is a clear and presnt danger to my team
Give the guy a chance
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Sep 8, 2011 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions
If Trevor Scott starts at OLB he can too. Same measureables except Trev is taller.
I guess it would be cool to split reps, half and half for Cain and Scott to keep them fresh and after the QB. I view their game as very similar.
The RaiderLaker
What is Al doing?
The def LB-secondary has looks awful.. and what do they do? Nada. Hmmm lets just sit back and hope that we do something on D.
The secondary doesn't look awful
CJ didn’t play all preseason and his burn rate doesn’t lie. At least now they are addressing the LB spot. Like Buster Bluth said, Al may have been trying to keep his comp picks.
You're right
When DVD and Walter McFadden were in there. Luckily Walter is gone and DVD won’t have to play a whole lot yet.
I Voted No
Not necessarily because I think Tully Banta-Cain is horrible, but more that I don’t think he’s a great fit for the need that exists in the Raiders’ LB corp. With the exception of Rolando McClain, our entire LB corp is made up of undersized DEs who have made the transition to LB and don’t have the natural instincts or abilities to play the position on a consistent basis. As others have commented above me, adding Banta-Cain is basically like adding another Groves or Scott and hoping that he can make the conversion to 4-3 OLB despite having played 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE in nickel situations for the Patriots his entire career. The only thing I can hope is that in playing 3-4 OLB Cain has at least some understanding of zone coverages.
Rather than bringing in the 31 year old Banta-Cain I would rather take a chance on a younger player. Even though its Wikipedia and nearly categorically unreliable, I counted 8 OLBs on the practice squads of teams that run primarily 4-3 defenses. All of these players are basically free agents to any team willing to add them to the active roster. I would scout these guys first to see if anyone was a diamond in the rough waiting to make a contribution. Also, a younger player is more likely to contribute on special teams, where I doubt Banta-Cain would be a part of coverage teams.
Just my 2 cents. If he ends up a Raider I will wish him nothing but success.
"When we play tough, and we play physical, and when we play the way we're supposed to play, can't nobody beat us." - Richard "SeaMonster" Seymour
Groves has never had more than 5 sacks let alone 10 as Cain has done.
plus they have the smae measurables. And Cain comes from the Pats. That’s a plus for leadership/winning attitude.
The RaiderLaker
the 10 sack season was more of an anomoly.
I think he got those sacks mostly against teams with very bad pass blocking OL…. like the bills. In fact 5 of those sacks came against the bills, and 2 against the Jets that year.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Yes... and what has Groves (who cain would be replacing) done?.... exactly
I think too many of you are holding out hope that somehow we are going to get Briggs, which isn’t going to happen and would be a waste if we did. He is like 31 and LB isn’t the only place we need before we can for sure push for a SB spot. I would only pick him up if by filling that spot we were likely to make it to the SB. Cain is a temp fix that should give a bit more consistency at WLB position, Cain/Scott will be good sharing the position.
Win Lose or Tie, Raiders Til I Die
Groves doesnt play 3-4 OLB
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
+1 Completely agree
I don’t mind Cain’s age. He can be a fill-in until the end of the season. Thereafter, we should draft a No.1 lb in the 2012 draft.
Those 2 teams ...
are teams that the Patriots really get up for, and usually turn into pretty good games, ala Raiders-Chiefs, Raiders-Denver. But seen enough of his play (stuck here in Patriots country, from Boston), to know that he can help our beloved … limited or not. But, and this is a big but, I would still like to see a younger LB brought in to compliment and grow with the rest of our young guys on D (and there are a bunch). However, I don’t see that happening unless someone gets hurt as I figure that position will be addressed next draft.
Well I checked his stats last year... and he did good against playoff teams. The Jets and Pit and GB he had a sack on those games.
Groves has not. Overall, it wouldn’t hurt, he’s better than Groves.
The RaiderLaker
yeah one sack.
can be anything really. a coverage sack perhaps.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Groves has exactly "0" regular season sack as a Raider
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Sep 8, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
If his total production was just a zero
he be better than he’s been for us. He is a negative- a big negative
"Now I know what your thinking, did he fire six shots or only five. Ive forgotten myself in all this excitement, but being that this is the 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and could blow your head clean off, you have to ask your question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk!"
Dirty Harry Callahan
There needs to be a "negative sack" stat for Quentin
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Sep 8, 2011 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Not concerned with sacks
Those sack numbers evaluate their relative talents as DEs and 3-4 OLBs, not as 4-3 OLBs where their main duties are to cover TEs and RBs and pursuit the backside of running plays. I think we would agree that Groves struggles those areas, and I don’t see how Cain having more sacks can help him be a better 4-3 WLB.
That said, I’m not a professional talent evaluator like Coach Jackson, Coach Bresnahan, and Coach Biekert, so hopefully they see something I don’t.
"When we play tough, and we play physical, and when we play the way we're supposed to play, can't nobody beat us." - Richard "SeaMonster" Seymour
Sacks?
we dont need an OLB getting sacks. we have Wimbley for that. We need a LB who will fill his gap and stop the run. We have enough pass rushers on the team. Raiders need a WLB to force all running plays to the inside. Or cover when need be. Cain is not a coverage LB. Oh well better than no depth at all.
I agreel IF the raiders bring in him, it would only be for sub packages.
BUt I don’t think Banta-Cain will fill in a 4-3 OLB spot.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
What style D has banta been in?
The patriots always seem to mix it up with zones and blitzes… which takes coverage skills and banta has been able to contribute very well for them.
Banta Cain was a 3-4 OLB in passing situations
and played in sub packages.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
How about Zack Follett
He was one of Detroit’s last cuts. He’s young, and had a great Senior season. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/559542/zack-follett http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/zack-follett?id=80640
I will never recover from Al Davis saying, "I should never have fired Art Shell"
Follett not healthy
Follett had a serious neck injury in 2010 where he was briefly paralyzed. While he recovered from the injury, he never got back to 100% through the Lions’ training camp this year, when they finally cut him.
I would say Follett has to take 2011 off, and may have to retire if his neck never fully recovers.
"When we play tough, and we play physical, and when we play the way we're supposed to play, can't nobody beat us." - Richard "SeaMonster" Seymour
We have all been whining about it...
It seems like they are trying to address concerns and aren’t completely blind to the issues. I hope he gets signed he’s a vet with solid experience. Better in passing situations then running so that’s our weakness TE in the seam and edges on 3rd and med-long. Get him just don’t overpay for him…
Yes!
Banta-Cain is very underrated for how solid his numbers are. Him and Wimbley will be a great pass rushing duo, a necessity to our bump and run coverage. BC is a decent run/cover LB, which is miles ahead of Groves. Looks like all my pimping is going to pay off, bring in Banta-Cain
"In football, I root for the Oakland Raiders because they hire castoffs, outlaws, malcontents, and f*ck -ups, they have lots of penalties, fights, and paybacks, and because Al Davis told the rest of the pig NFL owners to go get f*cked... Someday, the Raiders will be strong again, and they will dip the ball in **** and shove it down the throats of the wholesome, white, heartland teams that pray together and don't deliver late hits"
– George Carlin
by AlDavis4Prez on Sep 8, 2011 4:04 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Do we really need another pass rushing specialist who isn't very good against the run?
He’s better than Groves, who is the rare linebacker who is bad against both the pass and the rush, but at this point a traffic cone is a better linebacker than Groves.
MexicAN AmericAN VegAN
I think we'd be better off going after someone who is better against the run
I’m fully in the tank for Sons “send next year’s 1st rounder to the Bears for Briggs” course of action.
MexicAN AmericAN VegAN
Groves Uber Weakness
Is in coverage he is better against the run… We killed against the run in our division last year.
I disagree
He’s a terrible tackler. Always has been. He’s as much a liability against the run as he is against the pass.
MexicAN AmericAN VegAN
Too bad Banta cain can't play 4-3 OLB..
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
It wouldn't be too hard to learn it. What's important is basic LB skills, tackling, short coverage occaisional blitzing and stunts
Really, that’s the essence and we don’t even have that now.
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Sep 8, 2011 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions
both.
And its probably hard to learn it more than you think Sons. Positioning, schemes, assignments, maybe other things as well. Banta Cain won’t do very well in a 4-3 OLB position imho.
I’ll take 11 players with heart on the field over 11 guys with just talent. Talent is fleeting, it goes away over time. Heart is what drives you to be better. To push yourself beyond what you think your capabilities are. To show us that when you strive, all things are possible.- SMP
Tafur
Banta-Cain was here, but Hue said no move was made
Cork
Raiders captains voted upon: RB Rock Cartwright, P Shane Lechler, DT Richard Seymour, QB Jason Campbell and RB Darren McFadden.
I understand all of the above except Shame. Why?
S-O-B: ITS HOW I ROLL, DEAL WITH IT.
"I made a trade for Seymour. ..I thought it was a great trade. Still do. [Al Davis 1/2011]
"I love to win, even against my daughters, I want to win" Hue "Action" Jackson 8/19/11
by Sons-of-Blanda on Sep 8, 2011 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Sign him just cuz we don't have much else.
Keep Groves, Al gave up a decent mid round pick for him so of course he’s going to get every chance to stink it up along w/ DHB, Sam Williams, and all these other jokers Al hired to fill up the majority of his coaching and scouting staff.
Trust No One
Studies show stress can kill you, but don't worry about it.
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