Fassel also leaves Oakland...after record setting Special Teams work...

by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Feb 1, 2012 1:02 PM PST

I just saw article in CSNBay area.com That John Fassel has hit the road in Oakland.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/raiders-talk/post/Special-teams-coach-Fassel-leaves-Raider?blockID=641526&feedID=2801

I wasnt very upset to see Sanjay leave, or hear that the strengthening coaches were replaced...too many injuries last season. but Fassel? I am sorry to see him leave.He left us to go work for Jeff Fisher in St Louis.

In ending this, I have to put in my 2 cents as far as the coaching developments so far: I am happy about Allen being hired; seems like a young and dynamic guy and gets props from everyone he has been associated with. His pick for OC? Not so much...I didnt want to see another retread in Greg Knapp. I had expected, maybe stupidly that Saunders would stay. We had an explosive offense last year. Now we change it all up...with a new OC who has a track record of unimaginative and vanilla calls. Great QB coach at Texas....but we aint in Texas and now he is not a position coach.

8 months to see how it all shakes out.....

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You'd think we'd be used to this by now

Wouldn’t you? Every year, we change coaches. Some we get mildly excited about, others not so much. I spend a lot of time looking through the archives for this forum, and when I look back I see the same arguments/criticisms year after year, just the names of the coaches and player change. The Nation is never so united as when the name Gruden comes up.

by rightnasty on Feb 1, 2012 1:30 PM PST reply actions

I was surprised that Fassel left...he really has a pretty good ST rep.

Theyre scattering like roaches when the kitchen light goes on!!!!
And..if we’re not shaking our heads, we wouldnt be Raider fans….

The cowards never started, the weak died along the way....

by BlackHeartSilverEyes on Feb 1, 2012 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

Seems like Madden vs. Reality gets vague

In Madden you get to experiment with coaches, players all you want, and do it with fake money, and you should just for the hell of it because it’s a game. But yet you have professional sports organizations that do the same thing, don’t act like real corporations where millions of real dollars are at stake. They’re just playing Madden with real teams and real people, and mostly hoping they get lucky with their decisions. The good teams obviously have a system down pat for getting the right people, and because of it they stay competitive year after year. Then there’s the bulk of the rest of the league, getting some stuff right, but not right enough to go all the way, or the bottom feeders who almost never compete. So here we are with brand new owner, GM and head coach, talking about changing the climate, yet we still same to be playing the same old games. If they wanted to be different from Al, they’re not really proving anything yet.

by rightnasty on Feb 1, 2012 1:58 PM PST up reply actions

This doesnt make any sense man, first off we are just starting a system now so we will see if its one we can get down pat

As for this isnt different than Al that is just not correct at all. We got a defensive minded coach for the first time in 40 years, thats pretty different than what Al was doing right there. Then we allowed that coach to decide who he wanted to work with, there was no upper management making the decision on these assistants. The coach came in and said this is the guy i want to run my offense and thats who he went and got, again incredibly different than Al. Its a coincidence that the coach we hired happened to decide that the guy he wanted to work with was somebody who was already a coach here once but that just happened, there was no greater plan making the same decisions as Al did. The fact the coach hired his staff is very different, the fact the coach is defensive minded is very different, and the fact that we are going to have a coach get to run whatever system he wants for his defense is going to be very very different. Its not them playing Madden just because we dislike the coach he hired, its them thinking this is the guy that they want to work with and will be best for the team.

"We want to win. The Raider fans deserve it. The Raider players deserve it, even my organization deserves it. You have to win and you have to win with a vision for the Super Bowl. That's our passion here."--Al Davis

"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi

by Marcus Allen Krause on Feb 1, 2012 3:24 PM PST up reply actions

Sure it does

It just doesn’t say what you want it to. While I’ll always do appreciate your optimism because we do need it around here, it comes at a price. The price is simply accepting what decisions they make with little or no criticism. We are sports fans. Is it not our right to question some of the less sound decisions? More importantly, do we as fans not have the right to want the best for our team? And have we been getting the best in Allen, Knapp, Manusky? Honestly? And if we haven’t been getting the best, do we not have a right to wish for better? You take upon yourself to defend them whatever decisions they make for some unknown reason. It’s not a sin to say, “Hey, WTF?” once in awhile.

Yeah, the coach got to pick his own people, and he picked basically the same people that Al did and then let go of. Manusky was just fired from the Chargers after one season. But we want him? After Bresnahan.

Seriously, optimism is good, faith is good. But you don’t need to defend them constantly. Especially when they make questionable decisions.

by rightnasty on Feb 1, 2012 3:56 PM PST up reply actions

Do you know if we have gotten the best before they have shown what they have to offer on the field? No.

I have stated that I do not like the hiring of Knapp, I just am not getting down with the barb-b-que you all are tossing. I REALLY like the hiring of Allen, and if he is picking these guys as his assistants that is up to him. Allen has his reasons for hiring these guys and believes that they will work in the system he is creating, I have faith that he had a plan going into this for what he wants. I do not care if they were already here and I do not buy that Knapp is a horrible OC because his scoring stats say otherwise and when its all said and done scoring is the only stat that matters.

I do not care that the guy Allen picked happened to be a guy that Al had in previous years. It does not matter to me because I believe that had absolutely nothing to do with the decision. I do not believe it was a choice made from politics, I believe that as soon as Allen knew he was the head coach that Knapp was the guy that he wanted to work with. I trust that Allen put the proper thought into that decision and believe this is who is going to perform the best as a counterpart to Allen’s defense.

I take upon myself to defend his decision because I believe in him, and I am not willing to consider it a failure before I have seen the product. If the decisions made are made from completely different reasoning then i do not consider it to be a repeated cycle just because it led to the same conclusion. The team is different and that means the results are not just going to automatically be the same. Either way you claimed that they are playing Madden like they are just using trial and error and I refute that as none sense. Allen wants to succeed, so why would he not be calculating in his decision making. To act like he is just making decisions the way somebody does on Madden is ludicrous. We might not agree with who he hired as coach but we are not previewed to his reasoning behind it.

"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi

by Marcus Allen Krause on Feb 1, 2012 4:49 PM PST up reply actions

2+2=4 and 3+1=4, just because they have the same answer does not make them the same equation

"Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is."--Vince Lombardi

by Marcus Allen Krause on Feb 1, 2012 4:51 PM PST up reply actions

It's about resumes

And why not? When you or I apply for a job, they want to see what our background looks like too.

Knapp and Manusky haven’t shownwhat they got on the field? Neither has ever made it to an HC position, nor have they had much luck hanging on to coordinator positions. Was kind of looking for more in a resume when Allen started talking “championship”.

I REALLY like
I believe
I trust
I have faith

See this is the crux of it. It is, of course, you prerogative to have so much faith. And if Allen was a heavily experienced guy instead of a rookie, I’d have more faith too. But in fact, we just had a guy in there who was a coordinator one season before he was promoted to head coach, and it could be (and has) been argued he wasn’t ready for the position. This is not a reason to dislike Allen. It is, however, a reason to pause at least. We have to hope he knows what’s he’s doing. Hell, that’s our job as Raiders fans. But at some point, we have to ask ourselves: Is it more likely that Allen has a vision and is putting it together, or that he is a rookie coach and prone to make rookie mistakes? DId we not see Cable and Jackson making rookie mistakes? Is it not normal for a rookie to make rookie mistakes? Does the vision include bringing back someone like Knapp and hiring a guy that was fired after one season in San Diego? This, as opposed to bringing in new blood, young and fresh talent, waiting for their chance. Meanwhile, Del Rio was sitting on the couch for an entire year, until the Broncos called him. And Reggie laughing at the Gruden question.

It simply doesn’t make sense to have blind faith in Allen at this point. Not until he gives us reason to. We’ll cheer him on to be sure, but if the doubters are to be silenced, it will take deeds not words. Respect has to be earned.

by rightnasty on Feb 1, 2012 5:18 PM PST up reply actions

Not a year

Del Rio was sitting since Nov. 29,2011 when he was let go by the Jaguars. To be honest I don’t think he would have come here with a rookie HC no matter who it was.

"Committed To Excellence" Mostly just "Committed" though

by GoldCityRaider on Feb 1, 2012 6:47 PM PST up reply actions

Both good points

Marcus isn’t just about blind faith, he is just saying (and not like we actually have a choice in the matter) lets see it play out. I can’t disagree with him there at all. Their resumes are not standing out to me either, but I do at least trust that Allen is picking guys he truly believes he can work with. Maybe he really does want to change the entire direction of the offense as well. At this point it is all speculation. If we get a Allen, Manusky, Knapp combo then so be it. Come the first game we will be all behind them. Anyone here who isn’t, fuck em. By seasons end, we can all either say “Ha, i was right, we sucked” or “Damn, we did alright.” The NFL is funny that way. Some coaches need just one good season to change their fortunes. The only thing I like about the hires so far is that two of the guys we want/have are from the division. I don’t like the Knapp one so much, but at least he has no excuses for failure this time. Like you I’m sure, I’m hoping this next season is awesome and we make playoffs. But I won’t be stunned if we fail either. It will be a very interesting year, can’t wait really.

by lakers007raiders on Feb 1, 2012 7:17 PM PST up reply actions

I understand that

But they made us have faith in Cable, even though we figured we knew better. We had no idea how wrong they were even. We had faith in Hue because he’d done a good job at OC, yet there were many in this forum that wanted him tarred and feathered by season’s end, and he was indeed fired. The difference, as he pointed out, was the HC is picking the coaches now.

I do at least trust that Allen is picking guys he truly believes he can work with.

I trust this as well. But let’s be clear here. This is not about doomsaying, this is simply questioning decisions being made. Pretty sure we’ll all still be here by season’s end no matter how much bitching and complaining we do around here. That ain’t never gonna change. And yes, I do see the point of looking for the postives, trying to cast doubt aside, having some faith, all of that….But just can’t help thinking of this:

by rightnasty on Feb 1, 2012 7:32 PM PST up reply actions

Hahahah

I like the cut of your gib rightnasty! Couldn’t agree more. I would argue it did work out for Mr. Solo in the end. Despite the whole kissing siblings and Vader taking a saber to Obiwan and such.

by lakers007raiders on Feb 1, 2012 7:54 PM PST up reply actions

Hey man

Here’s to all of our doubts being put to rest eventually.

They did manage to escape the Death Star afterall.

by rightnasty on Feb 1, 2012 7:56 PM PST up reply actions

btw

I thought that sibling kissing thing was bad enough, but on Game of Thrones they took that to an all different level. wtf

by rightnasty on Feb 1, 2012 7:59 PM PST up reply actions

Not Unexpected

Not surprised, but I would have tried to set up interviews and kept the good coordinators. No reason to start from scratch just because some where Hue coaches. Actually, they were all hired by Al and some of them should have been kept.

by Mallard Davis on Feb 1, 2012 1:35 PM PST reply actions

Nothing else really has to be said,

you 3 (rnsty, BHSE, and MD) pretty much all hit the nail smack dab square. I’m just waiting for them to screw up the Carson Palmer progress. That’s gonna piss me off.

If you ever wanted to see Boise St play...may be a good chance. Love em or Hate em, they are always interesting; and now, no matter where you live, "They're Coming To Your City"

by astrosmurf on Feb 1, 2012 1:50 PM PST up reply actions

Why do we have to rebuild season after season??!! UUUGGGHHHH

by A Stable Stabler on Feb 1, 2012 1:48 PM PST reply actions

No shit,

This F’n “Carousel” ride we’ve been on is making me dizzy. You can’t build team cohesion, if everybody’s pretty sure they’ll be somewhere else after the season over. NEXT! NEXT! NEXT! NEXT! I thought when Al passed, (RIP) it would settle down. Thought, hmm, waste of time.

If you ever wanted to see Boise St play...may be a good chance. Love em or Hate em, they are always interesting; and now, no matter where you live, "They're Coming To Your City"

by astrosmurf on Feb 1, 2012 1:56 PM PST up reply actions

Two words, And you aren't gonna like em. . .

Al
Davis.

We had to rebuild so often because we had the same GM and he wasn’t up to the job any more. Sucks, but it is true. Al kept trying to rebuild the SB II team and failed miserably because the league changes.

Here’s what I do know- next draft we won’t get the fastest WR and CB two rounds too early. We won’t trade a serviceable QB for a guy with a cannon arm who can’t run an AFL offense. We won’t have the same man coverage, no blitz defense we’ve seen for 25 years. We won’t have players on the field or held from the field because they are on scholarship, but because they have earned it. We won’t lead the league in penalties for the 20th year in a row.

And dammit, we might actually see some progress.

by 509er on Feb 1, 2012 2:57 PM PST up reply actions

We will miss Fassel

Our special teams looked far better this year than the last two. A couple years ago I was worried every time we kicked off. Coverage was better, or had improved greatly. Lechler and Sebass were at their best this year too and dynamic returners like Ford and Moore helped out as well (until injuries took em). We can only hope we get someone decent now, and start over again. Damn man, we could be looking at a totally different Raider team next season. Talk about a purge, they wanted nothing to do with the last few seasons. Guess we will all find out what kind of team we field soon enough. The NFL is a fickle business.

by lakers007raiders on Feb 1, 2012 3:26 PM PST reply actions

Can't understand the logic of Allen

Unless he’s still working for the Donks still and he’s looking to tank the Raiders…in that case…this all makes perfect sense. It’s not like this team was terrible…we were 8-8, not 2-14. These moves seem like he’s desperate for experience despite it having an unsuccessful track record. He seems like a confident guy but these moves don’t suggest that.

You know what would make a good story? Something about a clown who makes people happy, but inside he's real sad. Also, he has severe diarrhea.

by Buster Bluth on Feb 1, 2012 3:52 PM PST up reply actions

Not that sinister

I just think he’s a rookie head coach making decisions he is comfortable with. He sounds like a bright guy, he doesn’t seem like a guy who’s just picking assistants out of a hat. He, and McKenzie, have probably done some research. You know football, it is about more than stats, always has been. I don’t like 90% of these hiring decisions, but it doesn’t really matter what I think. I trust (cautiously, not completely) they are making decisions based on their own research. Whatever happens, guarantee the fans will let them know come the regular season if they did good.

by lakers007raiders on Feb 1, 2012 7:05 PM PST up reply actions

Also, Wylie seemsto be gone as well

We hired the assistant OL coach from Houston…another very questionable move by Allen. Wylie and the OL was one of the biggest successes we had this season. We ranked 4th in the league in sacks allowed despite a group that doesn’t inspire confidence on paper.

i understand letting a coach bring in his own guys but we had some really talented position coaches and letting them walk is very disheartening.

If we go with Manusky as DC then I’ll have to take a good amount of optimism out for next season. These bad decisions are piling up quickly.

You know what would make a good story? Something about a clown who makes people happy, but inside he's real sad. Also, he has severe diarrhea.

by Buster Bluth on Feb 1, 2012 3:48 PM PST reply actions

Sorry...we hired this new guy to be the OL coach

You know what would make a good story? Something about a clown who makes people happy, but inside he's real sad. Also, he has severe diarrhea.

by Buster Bluth on Feb 1, 2012 3:48 PM PST up reply actions

Ya

But they’re keeping Wiz:
http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2012/02/01/wisniewski-retained-on-allens-staff/

by rightnasty on Feb 1, 2012 7:49 PM PST up reply actions

Furthermore

@alexmarvez

#raiders are hiring steve hoffman as new special teams coach. Was with #chiefs last season. Story soon at @foxsports.com

by rightnasty on Feb 1, 2012 6:34 PM PST reply actions

Well...the chiefs had good special teams

Excepting that kick return by McCann I dont remember a big return on them, they had a good coverage team. Regarding their return team, they had big returns from time to time, so it is not that bad of a downgrade…

by RaiderPride20 on Feb 1, 2012 6:46 PM PST up reply actions

Heh

He was already working for the raiders

2 blocked fgs ptfffft good riddens

by ArrowheadHunter

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/2/1/2765128/steve-hoffman-oakland-raiders-kansas-city-chiefs

by rightnasty on Feb 1, 2012 7:22 PM PST up reply actions

hmmm okay rightnasty

Excepting the kick return we had against them, and the blocked FGs, they had pretty good special teams. Happy?

by RaiderPride20 on Feb 1, 2012 7:46 PM PST up reply actions

Just showing you what Chiefs fans are saying

by rightnasty on Feb 1, 2012 7:50 PM PST up reply actions

We are just the laughing stock of the AFC West as usual

Picking up all their trash while feeding them our gold. We helped the Donks get Del Rio and we helped the Chiefs get Saunders possibly. All while hiring subpar coaches.

You know what would make a good story? Something about a clown who makes people happy, but inside he's real sad. Also, he has severe diarrhea.

by Buster Bluth on Feb 2, 2012 4:12 AM PST up reply actions

Our "record setting special teams"

Were due to the kickers.

The return and coverage units were average AT BEST.

Not a big loss at all.

by lchristmas on Feb 1, 2012 6:49 PM PST via mobile reply actions

Well I was super pissed about Sanders... but it goes more deeper than that. The HC has to hire his guys.

That way everyone knows the chain of command.
Trust me, if Hue Jackson made the playoffs he would still be fired.
Since major change happened to the top it will trickle down to the bottom.
This is a new ERA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The RaiderLaker

by JaggerJaw on Feb 1, 2012 7:27 PM PST reply actions

All this change is making us all nervous, but I have to admit,

these dudes aren’t screwing around. Their taking the bull by the horns. We’re definitely in for one hell of a ride. Here we go, whether we like it or not. Yee ha!

If you ever wanted to see Boise St play...may be a good chance. Love em or Hate em, they are always interesting; and now, no matter where you live, "They're Coming To Your City"

by astrosmurf on Feb 1, 2012 11:00 PM PST reply actions

Trying to look at it logically !!!(Allen's choices, so far)

Knapp was not only handicapped by the players, he had, but also Al D.‘s mantra(rip) go deep, but also handicapped by Kiffen, then Cable’s dufuss azz, with him insisting who was starting on the o-line then. Truefully we need to give him the benefit of the doubt, due to his success in S.F., ATL, and N.O. !!! NOW far as MANUSKY, Phyllis Rivers put S.D.‘s defense in the hole early and often, in the first 10 games. So was that really Manusky’s fault ???? They were 3 & 7, until Phyllis finally got his shit together, and then the defensive stats got progressively better. Shit they handled our azz’s in the last game, or don’t you remember !!!

by papabegood on Feb 2, 2012 12:16 AM PST reply actions

I see that is all a slew of excuses for some really bad choices

If it were the player that made Knapp so bad, why was Cable able to do better after taking over the play calling? Same players, better results. That is on Knapp

Manusky took the #1 total yardage defense to #13 in one year. If Rivers did such a good job of setting up the other team, wouldn’t the yardage be less? Think about it, if you have only 20 yards to get the the end zone, wouldn’t the defensive total yardage be lower than a team that punts and gives up a 70 yard drive? In this case, same players, WORSE results.

Firing Waufel is about as bad of a move as possible. The DL line hasn’t been this good since the days of Howie and Lyle. Kelly was a joke before this man coached him, and he has been a pro bowl alt for the past two years.

Fassel is far and away the best special teams coordinator the Raiders have EVER had! EVER! Write that down. Ford was a stud in returns. Jano made the pro bowl, as did Lechler and Condo. The Cleveland game was won on special teams. Of all moves, this one should prove that Allen is as clueless as Shaggy and Scooby right before a commercial break.

by TD Rader on Feb 2, 2012 7:26 AM PST up reply actions

I don't get all the excuse making either for all these coaching moves

Knapp’s track record as an OC is well established and he’s had many opportunities to prove himself on a slew of different teams with different talent levels and players. The results have been eerily similar. He has been a disappointment in each of his stops and why any team, let alone a team well versed in his incompetence would give him another go as an OC is beyond me.

I’m hoping that since we are requesting permission to talk to other people about the DC position that Manusky is off the table. If you want to tell that the only reason San Fran’s defense is a juggernaut now because they got Aldon Smith and Donte Whitner and not because they got rid of Manusky then I got some magic beans to sell you. San Fran improved all over the defensive side this year while SD regressed and there is only 1 commonality between those 2 occurrences.

Losing Fassel makes no sense either. He did a fantastic job with this squad. We scored a TD on a fake punt and should have on a fake FG as well. We blocked kicks regularly. The return game was riddled with injuries as was the coverage teams but they were still great. We have 3 ST pro bowlers. Now we have a ST coach that had 2 FGs blocked in one game against us…2….in one game. If that’s not a downgrade then I don’t know what is.

These questionable moves directly reflect on the HC putting this staff together. His words do not match his actions whatsoever and to have people question his abilities after being on the job a less than a month is almost unheard of. As always with the Raiders, I hope for the best but have tempered expectations.

You know what would make a good story? Something about a clown who makes people happy, but inside he's real sad. Also, he has severe diarrhea.

by Buster Bluth on Feb 2, 2012 8:15 AM PST up reply actions

As you should

These moves are questionable because they aren’t the moves we wanted. I don’t think papa was making excuses for these coachs. Their resumes speak for themselves, but coaching and coordinating don’t always show up in the stats. Wade Phillips should be a great coach, instead he’s just a great coordinator. Why? Leadership. I don’t know what Allen has, I can only hope it is as good as people say. Like it or not, Knapp is our OC. If by the end of the year you still hate his guts, so will McKenzie and he will be gone (if not sooner if he fails). I knew this would happen when we got a GM. This is a team that is getting rebuilt. That means most of the staff must go. I get that, and while I’ll miss some coaches the shit happens when you finish 8-8 two years in a row (and terrible records for 8-9 years prior to that). San Diego wasn’t too bad. I would argue Munasky is an upgrade over Panda at the very least. Did you think we were going to land a half decent DC? I’m not shocked, the Raiders aren’t a prime time team yet. We are on the rise, but far from getting over the top yet. Whomever runs the D will have my support. This team has my support no matter who is in charge. I didn’t want these coaching choices, but if they work out well then I would never be gladder to be wrong. Such is the way of the NFL.

by lakers007raiders on Feb 2, 2012 8:40 AM PST up reply actions